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Old 03-25-2005, 17:01   #1 (permalink)
John-in-Tonawanda
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97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

Please help if you can.
Last night while driving to visit family for Easter I was pulled over
and ticketed for no brake lights.
I stopped and checked the following:
bulbs - good, both filaments
fuses - good
Brake switch - good

What else could I check? The third brake light (high light) works fine
as does my cruise control (disengages when I step on the brake).
Now I'm 500 miles from home and have 3 days to fix this before the
ticket gets escalated.

I had a similar weird problem with my headlight last year that turned
out to be due to a faulty Lamp Out Module (LOM) that I never would have
resolved if not for this newsgroup.

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Old 03-28-2005, 15:02   #2 (permalink)
Gerald Riggs
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

John,
I have taken a close look at my 97 Ford Explorer Service Manual CD
wiring diagrams. Thought it would be worthwhile since I also have an 97EB
Exp. I can email you the diagram but it is pretty simple so I'll explain the
circuit and where you can check furthur.
THE CIRCUIT (---) is wires. IS

BRAKE ON/OFF SW ---->SPLICE(S212) ---->HIGH MT LAMP and LAMP OUT MODULE --->
L & R BRAKE LAMPS ---> GROUND

I would:
1. With brake pedal firmly applied check for voltage in the L&R BRAKE LAMP
sockets with a meter (be careful not to short out). If 12 or more VDC you
probably have a ground circuit problem. With so much plastic there is a lot
of wire ground circuits.
2. If no voltage ther may be some problem in the LAMP OUT MODULE (unlikely).
3. Another possibility is just a poor connection which will allow good
voltage readings but will not allow enough current to illuminate the lamps.
Iv'e seen this on older cars.

Letme know if you want the diagrams.
Jerry in Kingston, WA

"John-in-Tonawanda" <jluttinger@geomatrix.com> wrote in message
news:1111792830.125042.172650@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Please help if you can.
> Last night while driving to visit family for Easter I was pulled over
> and ticketed for no brake lights.
> I stopped and checked the following:
> bulbs - good, both filaments
> fuses - good
> Brake switch - good
>
> What else could I check? The third brake light (high light) works fine
> as does my cruise control (disengages when I step on the brake).
> Now I'm 500 miles from home and have 3 days to fix this before the
> ticket gets escalated.
>
> I had a similar weird problem with my headlight last year that turned
> out to be due to a faulty Lamp Out Module (LOM) that I never would have
> resolved if not for this newsgroup.
>



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Old 04-01-2005, 20:01   #3 (permalink)
John-in-Tonawanda
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

Thank you very much for the response. I wish I had seen it sooner.
Took it to a Ford Dealership and they diagnosed a faulty lamp out
module (LOM) and replaced it. Total charge.... sit down.... $605
I feel like I was taken. He said it took 5.8 hours of diagnosis.
I repaired the LOM a year ago when it failed and my headlight was out.
I should have figured it was the LOM. Geez, $600 gone

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Old 04-02-2005, 07:02   #4 (permalink)
budman@suckeggs.ca
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

>>Thank you very much for the response. I wish I had seen it sooner.
>>Took it to a Ford Dealership and they diagnosed a faulty lamp out
>>module (LOM) and replaced it. Total charge.... sit down.... $605
>>I feel like I was taken. He said it took 5.8 hours of diagnosis.
>>I repaired the LOM a year ago when it failed and my headlight was out.
>>I should have figured it was the LOM. Geez, $600 gone


5.8 hours "diagnosis" is insane. Send a copy of your work order to Ford. That
dealership should be taken to task.
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:03   #5 (permalink)
Big Bill
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

On 1 Apr 2005 19:20:58 -0800, "John-in-Tonawanda"
<jluttinger@geomatrix.com> wrote:

>Thank you very much for the response. I wish I had seen it sooner.
>Took it to a Ford Dealership and they diagnosed a faulty lamp out
>module (LOM) and replaced it. Total charge.... sit down.... $605
>I feel like I was taken. He said it took 5.8 hours of diagnosis.
>I repaired the LOM a year ago when it failed and my headlight was out.
>I should have figured it was the LOM. Geez, $600 gone


I would question that diagnosis charge.
Being a dealership, they have the Ford manuals; these manuals have
troubleshooting guides, and 5 hours to diagnose *any* electrical
problem is simply too long.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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Old 04-02-2005, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
John-in-Tonawanda
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

What can I do? Should I contest the charge with Visa?
I dont mind paying for fair service. Is there any more consensus on
this as being excessive?

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Old 04-02-2005, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
Big Bill
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

On 2 Apr 2005 14:13:05 -0800, "John-in-Tonawanda"
<jluttinger@geomatrix.com> wrote:

>What can I do? Should I contest the charge with Visa?
>I dont mind paying for fair service. Is there any more consensus on
>this as being excessive?


Personally, I would have discussed this while I was there.
Now, I'd go and still discuss it with them. Ask to be shown what steps
to troubleshoot were taken, and then ask how those steps compared to
the troubleshooting guides in their manuals. It wouldn't hurt to find
those manuals, and see what the troubleshooting steps are, and see how
much time it should take to follow them.
If you don't get any satisfaction, I'd go ahead and contest with Visa,
then ask them (the dealership) to kick it up a notch, and see if they
can discuss it with some managers further up the line.

Small claims court is a possible next step, but it will take some
preperation on your part. You'll need to familiarize yourself with the
troubleshooting procedures, and how long they may take with a
competent technician. You'd need to present a convincing case, because
they will.

Good luck!
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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Old 04-04-2005, 16:01   #8 (permalink)
John-in-Tonawanda
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

Thanks for the reply Bill
Unfortunately this Ford dealership is 450 miles from my home (I was
away for Easter). I did ask for them to go over the charges with me
and they showed me a sheet detailing the steps. I needed my car back
and really couldnt think of an argument at the time. Actually, I still
cant think of one other than it just seems like too much money.

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Old 01-04-2006, 17:01   #9 (permalink)
plex4r
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Re: 97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

I have the same problem with my '95 EB. Where is the Lamp Out Module and
S212? How do I test the LOM?

Thanks!

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