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Old 07-06-2005, 20:02   #1 (permalink)
w.elsallal@gmail.com
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turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
warning lights that were on.

I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
problem that needs to be fixed.

I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
detials of how to turn off those lights.

Thanks - Wajih

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Old 07-06-2005, 22:02   #2 (permalink)
Jim Warman
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

That these lights are on is a sign of a problem.... this is brakes... thiose
things that stop us when we need to (and we never seem to get that second
chance to stop). With the inspections I do in Alberta, I cannot pass a
vehicle if a safety warning light is lit or does not prove out at key on.

Your mechanic needs to realize that he has told you something that can have
him in serious legal difficulties if you were to have an accident that
involved your braking system. If someone were to be killed or seriously
injured, he could/would become a party on the defendants side.

FWIW, the ABS light is probably (and I mean *probably*) on in sympathy to
the red brake warning light. The most common reasons for this to be on is
the fluid level sensor, the park brake switch or the brake pressure
differential switch.

Look at it this way... these warning lights are on and someone feels they
are on for a minor concern..... if they are already on, don't expect them to
get brighter if something more serious happens.


<w.elsallal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120694553.684911.36600@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
> MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
> warning lights that were on.
>
> I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
> vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
> problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
> regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
> problem that needs to be fixed.
>
> I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
> detials of how to turn off those lights.
>
> Thanks - Wajih
>



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Old 07-07-2005, 11:01   #3 (permalink)
Bill Funk
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

On 6 Jul 2005 17:02:33 -0700, w.elsallal@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
>MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
>warning lights that were on.
>
>I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
>vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
>problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
>regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
>problem that needs to be fixed.
>
>I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
>detials of how to turn off those lights.
>
>Thanks - Wajih


I have to agree with Jim.
Those lights are on because the system has detected a problem. That
neither you nor your mechanic (who, frankly, isn't too bright) can't
find a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
Find a mechanic who knows brakes (your current mechanic clearly
doesn't - he's encouraging you to drive with what appears to be faulty
brakes; that's not what a mechanic should do) and have the brakes
checked to find what's setting the lights.
Brakes are not somethng you want to have fail on you. You certainly
should not be driving with brakes that are telling you "Hey, I've got
a problem here!"

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com
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Old 07-07-2005, 13:03   #4 (permalink)
w.elsallal@gmail.com
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

Hello, Thank you for the reply. I see where is your concern, however I
spoke with three different mechanics (one of them is a Ford expert) in
town and all of them agreed that the inspector shouldn't fail my
vechile because it is an ABS problem. Many cars don't have ABS anyway.
When ABS isn't working, the car's brake should still work.

In the past, I bleeded the Brake fluid and changed the front rotors and
bearings in addition to greasing the brakes but those two lights are
still on.

Many reports in the internet complains that this problem is very common
in 92 Ford explorer? Do you agree? Many reports suggest to replace the
ABS sensor ($30), however the dealer wants to change the whole ABS
system ($1000) whereas the vechile can be sold for ($800). I am not a
good mechanics and have a very limited budget, so whom should I
believe? My most concern is the safety of my family and those who share
the road with me.

Tomorrow, I am taking my vechile to another mechanic and will get a
report from him if it is a serious problem that has to be taken care of
or if the red brake light turns on in sympathy to the ABS lights.

I will keep you posted with the prgress. However, any other experience
that any of you can share with me, would help me making a better
decision of what to do.

Thanks - Wajih

Bill Funk wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2005 17:02:33 -0700, w.elsallal@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
> >MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
> >warning lights that were on.
> >
> >I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
> >vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
> >problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
> >regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
> >problem that needs to be fixed.
> >
> >I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
> >detials of how to turn off those lights.
> >
> >Thanks - Wajih

>
> I have to agree with Jim.
> Those lights are on because the system has detected a problem. That
> neither you nor your mechanic (who, frankly, isn't too bright) can't
> find a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
> Find a mechanic who knows brakes (your current mechanic clearly
> doesn't - he's encouraging you to drive with what appears to be faulty
> brakes; that's not what a mechanic should do) and have the brakes
> checked to find what's setting the lights.
> Brakes are not somethng you want to have fail on you. You certainly
> should not be driving with brakes that are telling you "Hey, I've got
> a problem here!"
>
> --
> Bill Funk
> replace "g" with "a"
> funktionality.blogspot.com


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Old 07-07-2005, 13:03   #5 (permalink)
Mark
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 09:28:54 -0700, Bill Funk <BigBill@there.com> wrote:

>On 6 Jul 2005 17:02:33 -0700, w.elsallal@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
>>MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
>>warning lights that were on.
>>
>>I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
>>vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
>>problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
>>regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
>>problem that needs to be fixed.
>>
>>I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
>>detials of how to turn off those lights.
>>
>>Thanks - Wajih

>
>I have to agree with Jim.
>Those lights are on because the system has detected a problem.


In MA, there is nothing stating a vehicle's ABS system must work for it to
pass inspection.

Not sure about the Brake light.

Every inspection station has a copy of what they must check. Ask to see
it.
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Old 07-07-2005, 16:02   #6 (permalink)
Mark
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:07:25 -0400, Mark <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 09:28:54 -0700, Bill Funk <BigBill@there.com> wrote:
>
>>On 6 Jul 2005 17:02:33 -0700, w.elsallal@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hello, I took my car, 92 Ford Explorer, to the emission inspection in
>>>MA, and they had failed my car because of the brake and anti-lock
>>>warning lights that were on.
>>>
>>>I explained to the inspector that it is an on-going problem in my
>>>vechile and I have driven 20,000 miles on it without any brake
>>>problems. He insisted that I have to fix it because of the state's
>>>regulations. In the other hands, my mechanic doesn't think it is a
>>>problem that needs to be fixed.
>>>
>>>I would to find out anyway to fix it by myself with some level of
>>>detials of how to turn off those lights.
>>>
>>>Thanks - Wajih

>>
>>I have to agree with Jim.
>>Those lights are on because the system has detected a problem.

>
>In MA, there is nothing stating a vehicle's ABS system must work for it to
>pass inspection.
>
>Not sure about the Brake light.
>
>Every inspection station has a copy of what they must check. Ask to see
>it.



Just a followup on my own post. Go back to the inspection station and give
them this:

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/inspect/540cmr4/sec404a.htm

Of course, I've never had a station perform test the way they describe, so
make sure you can pass what this says.

ABS broken? No problem. Brake light on? No problem. As long as the
systems can be mechanically tested as indicated above, you will pass.
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Old 07-07-2005, 16:02   #7 (permalink)
w.elsallal@gmail.com
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

Hello Mark,

Thank you very much for the link. In fact, the inspector didn't
physically try to stop the car on the wheel-running ramp/bay. He just
noticed the red brake light and told me, the vechile had failed. So
please, where does it say (explicitly) if the brake light is on, then
it is not a problem?

For your information, the inspection station is located at Mobile 9 gas
station on Rt-9 in Amherst, MA area. I had many work-colleagues who
seem to be having a hard luck with that inspector who had failed them
all for ultimately no-sense reasons. They went to some other inspection
station and their vechile passed. I could do the same thing, but I want
my money back from that inspector.

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Old 07-07-2005, 21:01   #8 (permalink)
Mark
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

On 7 Jul 2005 14:22:07 -0700, w.elsallal@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello Mark,
>
>Thank you very much for the link. In fact, the inspector didn't
>physically try to stop the car on the wheel-running ramp/bay. He just
>noticed the red brake light and told me, the vechile had failed. So
>please, where does it say (explicitly) if the brake light is on, then
>it is not a problem?


It doesn't. It also doesn't say that if it IS on, it fails. There are no
requirements in there for them to check the light at all. In other words,
he's doing something he's not supposed to be doing. Most likely because he
just doesn't know better. Ask him to show you where it says he's is to
check that. Show him the regulations.

>For your information, the inspection station is located at Mobile 9 gas
>station on Rt-9 in Amherst, MA area. I had many work-colleagues who
>seem to be having a hard luck with that inspector who had failed them
>all for ultimately no-sense reasons. They went to some other inspection
>station and their vechile passed. I could do the same thing, but I want
>my money back from that inspector.


If he's giving you a hard time and still being ignorant as to what he's
supposed to be doing, let him know you'll be contacting the registry
because you know he's failing you on a non-inspectable item. After you
speak with a representative there and give them your side of the story,
they can do a number of things ranging from just calling the station and
informing them they aren't supposed to be doing this - all the way to
shutting them down until they are in compliance. I speak from experience
on this. I had a Mobil station shut down for 1/2 a day because they
refused to use a ball-joint gauge when testing my vehicle. They said it
failed but wouldn't tell me by how much it failed nor show me the criteria.
After I made my calls and they were shut down, I went back, they put the
gauge on and even had a manual out with the allowable specs (boy, did I get
some nasty looks from these grease monkeys) and what do you know....I
passed. This was some 8-9 years ago, but the RMV still has authority of
all inpsection stations. Start there.
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Old 07-07-2005, 21:01   #9 (permalink)
Jim Warman
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

As others have mentioned, inspection requirements are spelled out in the
inspection manual quite clearly. If an inspector "fudges", he/she can be
disbarred, fined or even be unable to find work afterwards.

Nothing will beat having the problem diagnosed by a competent mechanic...
he/she will not come cheap but your cheapy guys appear to be leading you
astray at the very least. Your Explorer is NOT a car.... it is a MACHINE.
Machines need maintenance.... machines need repair. To leave a safety
warning system "disabled" in this manner is (sorry to say) reprehensible and
you are indeed putting lives at risk.

I've said it before and I will say it again.... if you caqnnot afford to
properly maintain your vehicle, you cannot afford to have a vehicle.... It
may sound abrupt but it is, none-the-less, the truth. Imagine someone giving
you a ride in a private plane and having them say "Oh, yeah.... I can't
afford to have that fixed..." , or falling through a neighbours porch
because they couldn't afford to have it fixed or eating a hamburger and
having someone say they couldn't afford to have their fridge fixed..... The
list goes on....

I'm sorry if I'm not telling you what you want to hear.... but I do believe
that it is what you *have* to hear....



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Old 07-07-2005, 21:01   #10 (permalink)
Jim Warman
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Re: turning off the brake and anti-lock warning lights

Let's shed some light on this..... You mean to tell me that, if I climb into
a car (especially a car I don't know) with brake warning lights on, you are
expecting me to drive this thing???? I've taken way too many road tests
that, after inspection, I feel lucky to return from..... Apparently,
someone, somewhere, feels that techs are expendable.

While some may be daring enough to take risks on our highways and byways, I
will feel much safer on my "donorcycle" than I will in a car with warning
lights ablaze...


..


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