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Old 08-08-2005, 13:01   #1 (permalink)
faust_151@hotmail.com
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351w old to new swap

Ive got a 69 coupe with a 351W, big bell C4 auto. Eventually I want to
either get a DSS 408w shortblock or build my own Windsor stroker to
swap out. I will be using all new parts on the new block so Im just
worried about things like tranny bolt pattern, flywheel, and whatever
else anyone who replies can think of that I should know about. Deck
height is not really important as it would not be a bad thing to get a
different fiberglass hood to save weight.

Thanks,

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Old 08-08-2005, 16:01   #2 (permalink)
cprice@here.com
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Re: 351w old to new swap


Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny bolt
pattern? I thought the only bellhousing change on windsor style
smallblocks was with the early 289 blocks.

Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine (if
its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for flywheel/flexplate. My
guess is that any crate engine these days will use the 'new' 50oz
imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz flywheel/flexplate.

And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor smallblock.
:) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go high-profile
air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a 427 stroker/afr
head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).

faust_151@hotmail.com wrote:

> Ive got a 69 coupe with a 351W, big bell C4 auto. Eventually I want to
> either get a DSS 408w shortblock or build my own Windsor stroker to
> swap out. I will be using all new parts on the new block so Im just
> worried about things like tranny bolt pattern, flywheel, and whatever
> else anyone who replies can think of that I should know about. Deck
> height is not really important as it would not be a bad thing to get a
> different fiberglass hood to save weight.
>
> Thanks,
>

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Old 08-08-2005, 18:01   #3 (permalink)
Ritz
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Re: 351w old to new swap

cprice@here.com wrote:
>
> Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny bolt
> pattern? I thought the only bellhousing change on windsor style
> smallblocks was with the early 289 blocks.
>
> Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine
> (if its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for flywheel/flexplate.
> My guess is that any crate engine these days will use the 'new' 50oz
> imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz flywheel/flexplate.
>
> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
> smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
> high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a 427
> stroker/afr head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).



Hell, why not go all out and do a 427 side-oiler or a 428cj? 8-)
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Old 08-08-2005, 18:01   #4 (permalink)
cprice@here.com
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Re: 351w old to new swap

Ritz wrote:
> cprice@here.com wrote:
>
>> Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny
>> bolt pattern? I thought the only bellhousing change on windsor style
>> smallblocks was with the early 289 blocks.
>>
>> Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine
>> (if its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for
>> flywheel/flexplate. My guess is that any crate engine these days will
>> use the 'new' 50oz imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz
>> flywheel/flexplate.
>>
>> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
>> smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
>> high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a
>> 427 stroker/afr head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).

>
>
>
> Hell, why not go all out and do a 427 side-oiler or a 428cj? 8-)


$$$'s. The 427 stroker makes huge horsepower in a standard Windsor
package. Other than hood clearance, everything else just bolts up in a
fox mustang.

I am sure there are FE equipped Foxes out there, but 428cj and 427 side
oiler blocks do not come cheap. 351w truck engines are junkyard plentiful.
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Old 08-08-2005, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
.boB
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Re: 351w old to new swap

faust_151@hotmail.com wrote:
> Ive got a 69 coupe with a 351W, big bell C4 auto. Eventually I want to
> either get a DSS 408w shortblock or build my own Windsor stroker to
> swap out. I will be using all new parts on the new block so Im just
> worried about things like tranny bolt pattern, flywheel, and whatever
> else anyone who replies can think of that I should know about. Deck
> height is not really important as it would not be a bad thing to get a
> different fiberglass hood to save weight.
>
> Thanks,
>

Basically speaking everything bolts up and matches just fine. Treat it like
swapping in a new 351W short block. If it's newer, the deck height will be
different, and that may affect your intake manifold choice. But the difference in
overall height isn't going to matter much, I think it calculates out to less than
1/8". Bellhousing, trans, motor mounts, etc, are all the same.
Flywheels differ from one stroker kit to another. It may be 28oz, 50oz, or 0oz.
The kit or short block you buy should included a flywheel and a balancer to match
the crank balance. They should all be dynamically balanced together, as one assembly.
I assembled a 427W for my Cobra from a PAW short block and other parts I bought
here and there. The only trouble was the oil pan. It had to be altered in a couple
of areas to clear the main cap girdle and the crank throws. No big deal.

--
..boB
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged!
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - Finally on the Road!

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Old 08-08-2005, 18:01   #6 (permalink)
Big Al
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Re: 351w old to new swap


<cprice@here.com> wrote in message news:dGSJe.146624$5V4.25813@pd7tw3no...
> Ritz wrote:
>> cprice@here.com wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny
>>> bolt pattern? I thought the only bellhousing change on windsor style
>>> smallblocks was with the early 289 blocks.
>>>
>>> Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine
>>> (if its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for flywheel/flexplate.
>>> My guess is that any crate engine these days will use the 'new' 50oz
>>> imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz flywheel/flexplate.
>>>
>>> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
>>> smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
>>> high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a 427
>>> stroker/afr head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).

>>
>>
>>
>> Hell, why not go all out and do a 427 side-oiler or a 428cj? 8-)

>
> $$$'s. The 427 stroker makes huge horsepower in a standard Windsor
> package. Other than hood clearance, everything else just bolts up in a fox
> mustang.
>
> I am sure there are FE equipped Foxes out there, but 428cj and 427 side
> oiler blocks do not come cheap. 351w truck engines are junkyard plentiful.


For cheap, there is no way to beat a 460.

Al


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Old 08-08-2005, 20:01   #7 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
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Re: 351w old to new swap


"Ritz" <ritz@mordor.net> wrote in message
news:ypSJe.18729$_R1.754@fe11.lga...
> cprice@here.com wrote:
>> Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny bolt
>> pattern?


yes; C4, FMX, Toploader in both 3 and 4spd will bolt right up. C6 needs the
small block bellhousing.


>> Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine (if
>> its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for flywheel/flexplate. My
>> guess is that any crate engine these days will use the 'new' 50oz
>> imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz flywheel/flexplate.


Nope. You can get them either way. If you buy just the stroker kit you use
the original 28oz and balance EVERYTHING!

>> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
>> smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
>> high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a 427
>> stroker/afr head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).


It's not very practical for a daily driver or even a weekender and WAYYYYYYY
more expensive than a 393 or 408 stroker. I'm pulling over 480lb/ft and over
430hp out of my 393 stroker. And I can still use the original rods and
cheap(er) 302 pistons instead of the high dollar special rods and pistons
that HAVE to be used for the big strokers. The only non-stock item was the
crank.

> Hell, why not go all out and do a 427 side-oiler or a 428cj? 8-)


Weight! Expense! I can change the plugs on my Windsor without rocking the
block off an engine mount. :)
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


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Old 08-08-2005, 20:01   #8 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
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Re: 351w old to new swap


>> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
>> smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
>> high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup.


Even the Air Gap will fit the stock hood with a drop base air cleaner
assembly running a 3" filter. stock 2" filter will run without the drop
base.
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


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Old 08-08-2005, 20:01   #9 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
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Posts: n/a
Re: 351w old to new swap


"Big Al" <nospamsal1@qwest.net> wrote
> For cheap, there is no way to beat a 460.


Except that you have to swap more than just the engine if you switch to a
460. Engine mounts, headers, exhaust, tranny, bellhousing, etc...

Suddenly not so cheap.
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


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Old 08-08-2005, 22:01   #10 (permalink)
cprice@here.com
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Posts: n/a
Re: 351w old to new swap

Big Al wrote:
> <cprice@here.com> wrote in message news:dGSJe.146624$5V4.25813@pd7tw3no...
>
>>Ritz wrote:
>>
>>>cprice@here.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Didn't all 302/351 windsor engines come with the same tranny
>>>>bolt pattern? I thought the only bellhousing change on windsor style
>>>>smallblocks was with the early 289 blocks.
>>>>
>>>> Flywheel wise, I *think* (open to correction) your current engine
>>>>(if its original) uses the 'old' 28oz imbalance for flywheel/flexplate.
>>>>My guess is that any crate engine these days will use the 'new' 50oz
>>>>imbalance and need a corresponding 50oz flywheel/flexplate.
>>>>
>>>> And heck, if you have a 351 already, why not go 427Windsor
>>>>smallblock. :) It *should* fit under you stock hood unless you go
>>>>high-profile air-gap intake or similar setup. I am dreaming about a 427
>>>>stroker/afr head monster in my 86 coupe (2850 lbs).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hell, why not go all out and do a 427 side-oiler or a 428cj? 8-)

>>
>>$$$'s. The 427 stroker makes huge horsepower in a standard Windsor
>>package. Other than hood clearance, everything else just bolts up in a fox
>>mustang.
>>
>>I am sure there are FE equipped Foxes out there, but 428cj and 427 side
>>oiler blocks do not come cheap. 351w truck engines are junkyard plentiful.

>
>
> For cheap, there is no way to beat a 460.
>
> Al


Agreed, but the fit isnt as easy as a smallblock. And add 300 or so
pounds to the front end of a fox. An aluminum head 427 stroker is
probably close to a factory 5.0 in weight,
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