fclaugus

"WindsorFox" <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote in message
news:98Hkf.16758$_k3.2273@dukeread01...
> Backyard Mechanic wrote:
>
> > Time to figure out a way to pay into a joint benefits fund from
> > cars/vehicles sold.. regardless of origin.
> >
>
> And perhapse pay CEOs and such only $4 million a year instead of $8
> million and make a "profit rainy day fund." Yeah I'm all for profit and
> free trade and such and I am definately not a Socialist, but any mildly
> intelligent person must agree that some CEO salaries are far beyond
> outrageous.

CEO compensation is only outrageous when executives are rewarded for poor
performance. If they make their company billions, why shouldn't they receive
their cut ? Given a good CEO is very hard to replace. However, there are
plenty of examples of poorly performing (ceo)s making way too much.

CEO G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. of GM made $4,817,020 last year. John M. Devine
Vice Chairman and Chief Financial Officer of GM made $4,223,650. These
figures are small compared to after tax income of 2.1 billion last year.

William C. Ford, Jr. Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer made
$12,185,696 in long term compensation last year (no salary or bonuses) and
$21,477,502 in options.
James J. Padilla President, Chief Operating Officer, Director; Chairman -
Automotive Operations made $7,250,625 last year (only one million in salary)
with $1,994,724 in options. Again, these are small compared to the 3.9
billion ford made last year in income after taxes.

By comparison, WMT CEO H. Lee Scott, Jr. earned $12,593,493 plus $4,537,582
in options. And John B. Menzer, Vice Chairman of the Board, earned
$5,390,386 plus $5,630,359 in options. One could argue that these figures
are fair, considering Wal-Mart made 10.5 billion after taxes last year.

Here are the top 10 highest paid (CEO)s. First colunm is this year's
compensation in thousands, and the second column is compensation over the
last five years.

1 Terry S Semel Yahoo 230,554 258,291
2 Barry Diller IAC/InterActiveCorp 156,168 239,846
3 William W McGuire UnitedHealth Group 124,774 342,284
4 Howard Solomon Forest Labs 92,116 294,895
5 George David United Technologies 88,712 210,793
6 Lew Frankfort Coach 86,481 154,087
7 Edwin M Crawford Caremark Rx 77,864 93,563
8 Ray R Irani Occidental Petroleum 64,136 127,447
9 Angelo R Mozilo Countrywide Financial 56,956 96,914
10 Richard D Fairbank Capital One Financial 56,660 226,268



It's also interesting to note that Ellison of Oracle made ovre 867 million
over the last five years!!

Here are the wost performing CEOs : Notice the high compensation despite the
negative return.

Peter Cartwright Calpine
Tenure: 21 years
Annualized return during tenure: 4%*
Relative to S&P: 96
6-year annualized return: -7%
6-year average compensation: $13.0 million

Steven R. Appleton Micron Technology
Tenure: 11 years
Annualized return during tenure: 1%
Relative to S&P: 91
6-year annualized return: -13%
6-year average compensation: 9.3 million

Thomas A. Renyi Bank of New York
Tenure: 8 years
Annualized return during tenure: 6%
Relative to S&P: 100
6-year annualized return: -2%
6-year average compensation: 13.8 million

Martin G. McGuinn Mellon Finl
Tenure: 6 years
Annualized return during tenure: -1%
Relative to S&P: 98
6-year annualized return: -2%
6-year average compensation: 5.5 million

Lee R. Raymond ExxonMobil
Tenure: 12 years
Annualized return during tenure: 15%
Relative to S&P: 104
6-year annualized return: 11%
6-year average compensation: 22.8 million

Data found at www.forbes.com and www.wsj.com

 

John

"Kruse" <kruse@kansas.net> wrote in message
news:1133722013.935172.203300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mort Guffman wrote:
>>
>> Americans should buy American cars. It's not complicated.
>
> Actually, it kinda is complicated. If you look at the build sheet for a
> new "American" car, the engine or tranny could be built in France,
> Mexico, Canada or even China. Yet the "foreign" cars have their plants
> in the good 'ol USA.
> A Ford hybrid is about 50% foreign parts. A Chevy Equinox has an engine
> built in China. A Mazda pickup is built by Ford. Older Isuzus may have
> a GM engine. A Chevy car may have had an Isuzu engine. A Chevy could
> have been a joint venture between Toyota, Daewoo or who knows whatever.
> Dodge has their parts from who-knows-where. Where does it stop and how
> can the "American" car companies bitch about the foreign invasion when
> they have jumped in bed with the foreigners?

We are witnessing the equalization of wealth that a "global economy" brings
about. Decades from now most everyone will be somewhere between a UAW
autoworker at his or her peak and the poor dirt farmer in a third world
country.

--
John
'69 Mach 1 390 Toploader Acapulco Blue
ThunderSnake #59

Howard Nelson

"WindsorFox" <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote in message
news:2jHkf.16762$_k3.1678@dukeread01...
> Mort Guffman wrote:
but if you owned a bakery and you were $10,000 short AND your
> salary as owner CEO was $60K, would you settle for a $50K salary to save
> your business? Of course. Now tell that to the people that run Ford and
GM.

If shareholders owned the bakery, and you already had put away more money
than you could spend in your lifetime, what possible incentive would you
have to cut your salary.

Howard

fclaugus

"WindsorFox" <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote in message
news:2jHkf.16762$_k3.1678@dukeread01...
> Mort Guffman wrote:
>
> >
> > Americans should buy American cars. It's not complicated.
> >
>
> Don't you DARE even try to lay just one tiny bit of blame for Ford
> and GM losing money on me! Chrysler is half owned by Daimler, and if the
> Big 3 are such wonderful American companies Why are so many models made
> in Canada and Mexico? My "Japaneese" truck is engineerd and built in
> Canton Mississippi and is in my opinion superior to it's competiton. If
> they worried less about profits and more about the product that causes
> the profits they would make more. Lastly, Call me a Socialist if you
> want, but if you owned a bakery and you were $10,000 short AND your
> salary as owner CEO was $60K, would you settle for a $50K salary to save
> your business? Of course. Now tell that to the people that run Ford and
GM.

Except in this case Ford And GM are loosing hundreds of millions of dollars
and the (CEO)s are earning just a few million. However that is still a few
million too much. Although, who would run GM on peanuts when you can make
much more $ at a more profitable company ? Meaning, we can only cut
executive compensation so much before the executive look for work elseware.
Although, mane executives have significant amounts of stock in the companies
they run, so they should be motivated to stay and make the company more
profitable. (In theory)

Fred

Kruse

WindsorFox wrote:
Chrysler is half owned by Daimler, and if the
> Big 3 are such wonderful American companies Why are so many models made
> in Canada and Mexico?

IMO (and maybe my opinion only) Chrysler is NOT American owned at all.
Period.
Within two months of the Chrysler-Daimler merger, 8 of the top 10
American executives
had been fired or quit and were replaced by people from Daimler. There
was also a big lawsuit from stockholders about this "merger". I don't
know how it was resolved, if it was resolved or maybe still in
litigation. I guess I don't really care, either.

Michael Johnson, PE

Backyard Mechanic wrote:
> "Grover C. McCoury III" <gcmccoury@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. workers and local officials said Friday
>> they'll do everything in their power to keep plants open after a
>> report suggested Ford is considering closing five North American
>> plants as part of a major restructuring.
>
> UAW, Ford, GM and Chrysler must sit down and find a way to stop the
> bleeding.
>
> Time for UAW to establish strict workplace standards.. spend less time
> defending workers from charges of drug use / dealing, more educating how
> they are all in danger.
>
> Time to kick the MBA's out of Automotive middle management and establish
> "Quality as Job1 !" ethics.
> - Still signs of 'quota management' in plants, which ignore rework rate
>
> Time to figure out a way to pay into a joint benefits fund from
> cars/vehicles sold.. regardless of origin.

I'm not so sure they can do anything to stop their decline. They are
likely in a no-win scenario. If they become more efficient then they
will need fewer workers (i.e. layoffs required) or if they are paid more
then the cost of domestic cars won't be competitive with foreign
competition. It is ever more affordable goods and services that support
our relatively high standard of living. We all make choices every day
that cost someone a domestic job somewhere. Whether it be a car,
underware, toothpaste, a wrench etc. we all usually choose the least
expensive item that gets the job done. Same goes for businesses. If
everyone decided to buy nothing but domestically made goods from
tomorrow forward we would all have less disposable income and many goods
we would have to do without because they are no longer made here in the
USA. This, in turn, would effect the overall health of our ecomony and
standard of living.

IMO, the USA's work force is returning to a state that puts more
responsibility on the individual for their economic well being. There
are plenty of jobs available but not enough qualified people to fill
them. Today too many people see a college education as optional and
jobs that require good math and technical skills as too much of a hassle
to get qualified to fill. People that refuse to educate themselves and
work to become skilled in a technical field will suffer the economic
consequences. The days of making $40/hour to spray paint bumpers are
rapidly fading. Just like buggy whip makers had to reinvent themselves
a 100 years ago so do many workers today. IMO, it is the flexibility to
reinvent ourselves when needed that really gives us a great economic
advantage over many other countries. It is good that we let the market
determine employment needs and not let markets be overly influenced by
government control. We have some good examples over the last 100 years
(i.e. Socialism, Communism) that show that too much government control
is a very bad thing.

Ritz

Mort Guffman wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:21:20 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Grover C. McCoury III" <gcmccoury@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. workers and local officials said Friday
>>>they'll do everything in their power to keep plants open after a
>>>report suggested Ford is considering closing five North American
>>>plants as part of a major restructuring.
>>
>>UAW, Ford, GM and Chrysler must sit down and find a way to stop the
>>bleeding.
>>
>>Time for UAW to establish strict workplace standards.. spend less time
>>defending workers from charges of drug use / dealing, more educating how
>>they are all in danger.
>>
>>Time to kick the MBA's out of Automotive middle management and establish
>>"Quality as Job1 !" ethics.
>>- Still signs of 'quota management' in plants, which ignore rework rate
>>
>>Time to figure out a way to pay into a joint benefits fund from
>>cars/vehicles sold.. regardless of origin.
>
>
> Americans should buy American cars. It's not complicated.


That's a load of baloney. I'll buy the car that meets my needs at a
price I want to pay. Why should I help keep the fatcat union bosses
temporarily employed as they suck more dollars out of the government in
the form of tax concessions and from their constituents in the form of
union dues?

If you can't make a product that people want and at a price that they're
willing to pay, you will go out of business. "Coherent action" will
just delay the inevitible. Better to spend that money on something that
will benefit the economy in the long-run rather than use it to prop up
an inefficient company/industry.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson, PE

joe schmoe wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 09:53:39 -0800, "Pat" <dancing@onlinemac.removecom>
> wrote:
>
>> I been buying Ford for 20 years. I took my Ranger in for a transmission
>> overhaul. $2000. 6 months later I had to have it done again. Another
>> $2000. I took my Aspire in for a head gasket. Cost $1500 and it still
>> needs a head gasket. I needed a new car. I watched the Ford ads for
>> months. Never able to buy one at the advertized price. So I bought a
>> Toyota. Maybe Ford should die.
>>
>
> I might ... agree with this (GM & Chryco too). It's time the
> government figured out the cost/benefits of having the US design and
> assemble it's own vehicles. US workers are too valuable to spend
> their time screwing nuts onto studs. The US should be computerizing
> the world that's where the money is at the moment.
>
> Focus on the future, allow the past to die (or at least move to
> China/Mexico). Subsidize the future, not the past.

Very good points, IMO.

RT

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:46:23 -0500, "fclaugus" <fclaugus@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"WindsorFox" <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote in message
>news:2jHkf.16762$_k3.1678@dukeread01...
>> Mort Guffman wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Americans should buy American cars. It's not complicated.
>> >
>>
>> Don't you DARE even try to lay just one tiny bit of blame for Ford
>> and GM losing money on me! Chrysler is half owned by Daimler, and if the
>> Big 3 are such wonderful American companies Why are so many models made
>> in Canada and Mexico? My "Japaneese" truck is engineerd and built in
>> Canton Mississippi and is in my opinion superior to it's competiton. If
>> they worried less about profits and more about the product that causes
>> the profits they would make more. Lastly, Call me a Socialist if you
>> want, but if you owned a bakery and you were $10,000 short AND your
>> salary as owner CEO was $60K, would you settle for a $50K salary to save
>> your business? Of course. Now tell that to the people that run Ford and
>GM.
>
>Except in this case Ford And GM are loosing hundreds of millions of dollars
>and the (CEO)s are earning just a few million. However that is still a few
>million too much. Although, who would run GM on peanuts when you can make
>much more $ at a more profitable company ? Meaning, we can only cut

It's simple; their salaries/bonuses would be directly related to the
sales numbers.

>executive compensation so much before the executive look for work elseware.
>Although, mane executives have significant amounts of stock in the companies
>they run, so they should be motivated to stay and make the company more
>profitable. (In theory)
>

>Fred
>

RT

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:56:34 GMT, Mort Guffman
<mortguffman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:21:20 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
><pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
>
>>"Grover C. McCoury III" <gcmccoury@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. workers and local officials said Friday
>>> they'll do everything in their power to keep plants open after a
>>> report suggested Ford is considering closing five North American
>>> plants as part of a major restructuring.
>>
>>UAW, Ford, GM and Chrysler must sit down and find a way to stop the
>>bleeding.
>>
>>Time for UAW to establish strict workplace standards.. spend less time
>>defending workers from charges of drug use / dealing, more educating how
>>they are all in danger.
>>
>>Time to kick the MBA's out of Automotive middle management and establish
>>"Quality as Job1 !" ethics.
>>- Still signs of 'quota management' in plants, which ignore rework rate
>>
>>Time to figure out a way to pay into a joint benefits fund from
>>cars/vehicles sold.. regardless of origin.
>
>Americans should buy American cars. It's not complicated.

You don't know what you're talking about. American cars aren't even
american. These days toyota's are more American than Ford Dodge or
Chevy.
What needs to happen is that the big three should kick the asses of
the old boys who think building boring mediocre cars is the way to go.
Refreshed styling and rock solid quality is what is needed. Don't
outsource your plants either. A modern automated plant doesn't need
many people so the cost benefit of doing it in mexico isn't there.
I think GM is the worst of all of them. Most models bore me to death
and the quality is still sh*t.