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Old 08-17-2005, 23:01   #1 (permalink)
NoOption5L@aol.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Here's an interesting article.

---
GM, Bosch, Stanford University. With all of the hype that hybrids are
getting, people forget that there is a lot of improvement left in the
internal combustion engine, which is why GM is teaming up with the
Robert Bosch Corp. and Stanford University in developing a
cost-effective engine technology that makes gasoline engines much more
efficient and diesel engines much cleaner, for both conventional and
hybrid propulsion systems. Under a three-year, $2.5 million program
announced this week, GM, Bosch and Stanford researchers will work to
accelerate the development of Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition,
or HCCI, which is a research technology that has the potential to
dramatically improve the efficiency of gasoline and hybrid propulsion
systems by more efficiently burning the fuel. HCCI could enable the
improvement of gasoline engine fuel efficiency by 20 percent, while
achieving near-zero oxide of nitrogen (NOx) emissions and particulates
- contributors to ozone depletion and smog. According to Dr. Gary
Smyth, director of Powertrain Systems Research Lab, GM Research &
Development and Strategic Planning, "It is GM's goal to develop and
demonstrate the viability of HCCI - a clean, efficient combustion
process - within the next few years. The joint program will allow us to
expand the scope of controls, sensors, and actuators work beyond what
we're already doing toward this goal." HCCI engines have the potential
to provide a dramatic increase in fuel efficiency over conventional
port fuel-injection spark-ignition engines and can run with diesel-like
efficiency, but produce near zero particulates and very low NOx
emissions. "For example," Smyth said, "gasoline engines could achieve
80% of diesel engine efficiency for about 50 percent of the cost." In
the HCCI engine, fuel is uniformly mixed with air (hence, "homogeneous
charge"), as in a spark-ignition engine, but with a higher proportion
of air to fuel. Rather than using a spark plug to ignite the air-fuel
mixture, however, the mixture is compressed by the piston until rising
temperatures inside the chamber ignite it spontaneously - a process
similar to that used in a diesel engine (hence, "compression
ignition"), but at a much lower temperature. The lower combustion
temperature, combined with the high ratio of air to fuel, known as lean
operation, virtually eliminates NOx emissions and lowers throttling
losses, which leads to a significant boost in fuel economy. In other
words, if it works - it's all good.
---

Patrick
'93 Cobra

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Old 08-18-2005, 19:01   #2 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

IMO, "internal combustion" and "efficiency" is not something we will see
soon. I think we need to use a process that uses fuel (i.e. petroleum,
hydrogen etc.) through a chemical reaction outside of combustion.
Combustion, in its current forms, wastes too much heat energy to be
considered efficient. Fuel cells show what efficiency levels can be
reached when a burning process is not used. I would like to see fuel
cell technology modified to use a petroleum based product while
retaining high efficiency levels. IMO, it would provide a great interim
fix until we can fully develop renewable and environmentally friendly
energy sources.

NoOption5L@aol.com wrote:
> Here's an interesting article.
>
> ---
> GM, Bosch, Stanford University. With all of the hype that hybrids are
> getting, people forget that there is a lot of improvement left in the
> internal combustion engine, which is why GM is teaming up with the
> Robert Bosch Corp. and Stanford University in developing a
> cost-effective engine technology that makes gasoline engines much more
> efficient and diesel engines much cleaner, for both conventional and
> hybrid propulsion systems. Under a three-year, $2.5 million program
> announced this week, GM, Bosch and Stanford researchers will work to
> accelerate the development of Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition,
> or HCCI, which is a research technology that has the potential to
> dramatically improve the efficiency of gasoline and hybrid propulsion
> systems by more efficiently burning the fuel. HCCI could enable the
> improvement of gasoline engine fuel efficiency by 20 percent, while
> achieving near-zero oxide of nitrogen (NOx) emissions and particulates
> - contributors to ozone depletion and smog. According to Dr. Gary
> Smyth, director of Powertrain Systems Research Lab, GM Research &
> Development and Strategic Planning, "It is GM's goal to develop and
> demonstrate the viability of HCCI - a clean, efficient combustion
> process - within the next few years. The joint program will allow us to
> expand the scope of controls, sensors, and actuators work beyond what
> we're already doing toward this goal." HCCI engines have the potential
> to provide a dramatic increase in fuel efficiency over conventional
> port fuel-injection spark-ignition engines and can run with diesel-like
> efficiency, but produce near zero particulates and very low NOx
> emissions. "For example," Smyth said, "gasoline engines could achieve
> 80% of diesel engine efficiency for about 50 percent of the cost." In
> the HCCI engine, fuel is uniformly mixed with air (hence, "homogeneous
> charge"), as in a spark-ignition engine, but with a higher proportion
> of air to fuel. Rather than using a spark plug to ignite the air-fuel
> mixture, however, the mixture is compressed by the piston until rising
> temperatures inside the chamber ignite it spontaneously - a process
> similar to that used in a diesel engine (hence, "compression
> ignition"), but at a much lower temperature. The lower combustion
> temperature, combined with the high ratio of air to fuel, known as lean
> operation, virtually eliminates NOx emissions and lowers throttling
> losses, which leads to a significant boost in fuel economy. In other
> words, if it works - it's all good.
> ---
>
> Patrick
> '93 Cobra
>

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 20:02   #3 (permalink)
Joe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Michael, check this out:
http://tinyurl.com/dpcj5

I hope he succeeds!


"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in
news:Y4adnVUyFMLArJjeRVn-hQ@giganews.com:

> IMO, "internal combustion" and "efficiency" is not something we will
> see soon. I think we need to use a process that uses fuel (i.e.
> petroleum, hydrogen etc.) through a chemical reaction outside of
> combustion. Combustion, in its current forms, wastes too much heat
> energy to be considered efficient. Fuel cells show what efficiency
> levels can be reached when a burning process is not used. I would
> like to see fuel cell technology modified to use a petroleum based
> product while retaining high efficiency levels. IMO, it would
> provide a great interim fix until we can fully develop renewable and
> environmentally friendly energy sources.
>
> NoOption5L@aol.com wrote:
>> Here's an interesting article.
>>
>> ---
>> GM, Bosch, Stanford University. With all of the hype that hybrids
>> are getting, people forget that there is a lot of improvement left
>> in the internal combustion engine, which is why GM is teaming up
>> with the Robert Bosch Corp. and Stanford University in developing a
>> cost-effective engine technology that makes gasoline engines much
>> more efficient and diesel engines much cleaner, for both
>> conventional and hybrid propulsion systems. Under a three-year,
>> $2.5 million program announced this week, GM, Bosch and Stanford
>> researchers will work to accelerate the development of Homogeneous
>> Charge Compression Ignition, or HCCI, which is a research
>> technology that has the potential to dramatically improve the
>> efficiency of gasoline and hybrid propulsion systems by more
>> efficiently burning the fuel. HCCI could enable the improvement of
>> gasoline engine fuel efficiency by 20 percent, while achieving
>> near-zero oxide of nitrogen (NOx) emissions and particulates -
>> contributors to ozone depletion and smog. According to Dr. Gary
>> Smyth, director of Powertrain Systems Research Lab, GM Research &
>> Development and Strategic Planning, "It is GM's goal to develop and
>> demonstrate the viability of HCCI - a clean, efficient combustion
>> process - within the next few years. The joint program will allow
>> us to expand the scope of controls, sensors, and actuators work
>> beyond what we're already doing toward this goal." HCCI engines
>> have the potential to provide a dramatic increase in fuel
>> efficiency over conventional port fuel-injection spark-ignition
>> engines and can run with diesel-like efficiency, but produce near
>> zero particulates and very low NOx emissions. "For example," Smyth
>> said, "gasoline engines could achieve 80% of diesel engine
>> efficiency for about 50 percent of the cost." In the HCCI engine,
>> fuel is uniformly mixed with air (hence, "homogeneous charge"), as
>> in a spark-ignition engine, but with a higher proportion of air to
>> fuel. Rather than using a spark plug to ignite the air-fuel
>> mixture, however, the mixture is compressed by the piston until
>> rising temperatures inside the chamber ignite it spontaneously - a
>> process similar to that used in a diesel engine (hence,
>> "compression ignition"), but at a much lower temperature. The lower
>> combustion temperature, combined with the high ratio of air to
>> fuel, known as lean operation, virtually eliminates NOx emissions
>> and lowers throttling losses, which leads to a significant boost in
>> fuel economy. In other words, if it works - it's all good.
>> ---
>>
>> Patrick
>> '93 Cobra
>>

>


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Old 08-18-2005, 21:01   #4 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Every since I read up on using electricity to generate hydrogen and
oxygen from water in college I have hoped someone could figure out how
to make it an efficient process. The electricity could be generated
from sunlight, wind, water, tides, ocean currents, nuclear fission, etc.

This is one area that I get pissed off at ALL politicians. If we put
SERIOUS government funding behind the research and make the technology
available to everyone for free we could solve so many problems. Imagine
no need for Middle East oil and no pollution from cars. Those two
things alone justify the effort, IMHO.

Joe wrote:
> Michael, check this out:
> http://tinyurl.com/dpcj5
>
> I hope he succeeds!
>
>
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in
> news:Y4adnVUyFMLArJjeRVn-hQ@giganews.com:
>
>
>>IMO, "internal combustion" and "efficiency" is not something we will
>>see soon. I think we need to use a process that uses fuel (i.e.
>>petroleum, hydrogen etc.) through a chemical reaction outside of
>>combustion. Combustion, in its current forms, wastes too much heat
>>energy to be considered efficient. Fuel cells show what efficiency
>>levels can be reached when a burning process is not used. I would
>>like to see fuel cell technology modified to use a petroleum based
>>product while retaining high efficiency levels. IMO, it would
>>provide a great interim fix until we can fully develop renewable and
>>environmentally friendly energy sources.
>>
>>NoOption5L@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>Here's an interesting article.
>>>
>>>---
>>>GM, Bosch, Stanford University. With all of the hype that hybrids
>>>are getting, people forget that there is a lot of improvement left
>>>in the internal combustion engine, which is why GM is teaming up
>>>with the Robert Bosch Corp. and Stanford University in developing a
>>>cost-effective engine technology that makes gasoline engines much
>>>more efficient and diesel engines much cleaner, for both
>>>conventional and hybrid propulsion systems. Under a three-year,
>>>$2.5 million program announced this week, GM, Bosch and Stanford
>>>researchers will work to accelerate the development of Homogeneous
>>>Charge Compression Ignition, or HCCI, which is a research
>>>technology that has the potential to dramatically improve the
>>>efficiency of gasoline and hybrid propulsion systems by more
>>>efficiently burning the fuel. HCCI could enable the improvement of
>>>gasoline engine fuel efficiency by 20 percent, while achieving
>>>near-zero oxide of nitrogen (NOx) emissions and particulates -
>>>contributors to ozone depletion and smog. According to Dr. Gary
>>>Smyth, director of Powertrain Systems Research Lab, GM Research &
>>>Development and Strategic Planning, "It is GM's goal to develop and
>>>demonstrate the viability of HCCI - a clean, efficient combustion
>>>process - within the next few years. The joint program will allow
>>>us to expand the scope of controls, sensors, and actuators work
>>>beyond what we're already doing toward this goal." HCCI engines
>>>have the potential to provide a dramatic increase in fuel
>>>efficiency over conventional port fuel-injection spark-ignition
>>>engines and can run with diesel-like efficiency, but produce near
>>>zero particulates and very low NOx emissions. "For example," Smyth
>>>said, "gasoline engines could achieve 80% of diesel engine
>>>efficiency for about 50 percent of the cost." In the HCCI engine,
>>>fuel is uniformly mixed with air (hence, "homogeneous charge"), as
>>>in a spark-ignition engine, but with a higher proportion of air to
>>>fuel. Rather than using a spark plug to ignite the air-fuel
>>>mixture, however, the mixture is compressed by the piston until
>>>rising temperatures inside the chamber ignite it spontaneously - a
>>>process similar to that used in a diesel engine (hence,
>>>"compression ignition"), but at a much lower temperature. The lower
>>>combustion temperature, combined with the high ratio of air to
>>>fuel, known as lean operation, virtually eliminates NOx emissions
>>>and lowers throttling losses, which leads to a significant boost in
>>>fuel economy. In other words, if it works - it's all good.
>>>---
>>>
>>>Patrick
>>>'93 Cobra
>>>

>>

>

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Old 08-19-2005, 04:01   #5 (permalink)
Joe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still don't
have government funding for research like that is proof that these
morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize that it's
supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of for themselves.


"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in
news:eqSdnbYFk-R-0ZjeRVn-jA@giganews.com:

> Every since I read up on using electricity to generate hydrogen and
> oxygen from water in college I have hoped someone could figure out
> how to make it an efficient process. The electricity could be
> generated from sunlight, wind, water, tides, ocean currents, nuclear
> fission, etc.
>
> This is one area that I get pissed off at ALL politicians. If we
> put SERIOUS government funding behind the research and make the
> technology available to everyone for free we could solve so many
> problems. Imagine no need for Middle East oil and no pollution from
> cars. Those two things alone justify the effort, IMHO.
>
> Joe wrote:
>> Michael, check this out:
>> http://tinyurl.com/dpcj5
>>
>> I hope he succeeds!
>>
>>
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in
>> news:Y4adnVUyFMLArJjeRVn-hQ@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>>>IMO, "internal combustion" and "efficiency" is not something we
>>>will see soon. I think we need to use a process that uses fuel
>>>(i.e. petroleum, hydrogen etc.) through a chemical reaction outside
>>>of combustion. Combustion, in its current forms, wastes too much
>>>heat energy to be considered efficient. Fuel cells show what
>>>efficiency levels can be reached when a burning process is not
>>>used. I would like to see fuel cell technology modified to use a
>>>petroleum based product while retaining high efficiency levels.
>>>IMO, it would provide a great interim fix until we can fully
>>>develop renewable and environmentally friendly energy sources.
>>>
>>>NoOption5L@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here's an interesting article.
>>>>
>>>>---
>>>>GM, Bosch, Stanford University. With all of the hype that hybrids
>>>>are getting, people forget that there is a lot of improvement left
>>>>in the internal combustion engine, which is why GM is teaming up
>>>>with the Robert Bosch Corp. and Stanford University in developing
>>>>a cost-effective engine technology that makes gasoline engines
>>>>much more efficient and diesel engines much cleaner, for both
>>>>conventional and hybrid propulsion systems. Under a three-year,
>>>>$2.5 million program announced this week, GM, Bosch and Stanford
>>>>researchers will work to accelerate the development of Homogeneous
>>>>Charge Compression Ignition, or HCCI, which is a research
>>>>technology that has the potential to dramatically improve the
>>>>efficiency of gasoline and hybrid propulsion systems by more
>>>>efficiently burning the fuel. HCCI could enable the improvement of
>>>>gasoline engine fuel efficiency by 20 percent, while achieving
>>>>near-zero oxide of nitrogen (NOx) emissions and particulates -
>>>>contributors to ozone depletion and smog. According to Dr. Gary
>>>>Smyth, director of Powertrain Systems Research Lab, GM Research &
>>>>Development and Strategic Planning, "It is GM's goal to develop
>>>>and demonstrate the viability of HCCI - a clean, efficient
>>>>combustion process - within the next few years. The joint program
>>>>will allow us to expand the scope of controls, sensors, and
>>>>actuators work beyond what we're already doing toward this goal."
>>>>HCCI engines have the potential to provide a dramatic increase in
>>>>fuel efficiency over conventional port fuel-injection
>>>>spark-ignition engines and can run with diesel-like efficiency,
>>>>but produce near zero particulates and very low NOx emissions.
>>>>"For example," Smyth said, "gasoline engines could achieve 80% of
>>>>diesel engine efficiency for about 50 percent of the cost." In the
>>>>HCCI engine, fuel is uniformly mixed with air (hence, "homogeneous
>>>>charge"), as in a spark-ignition engine, but with a higher
>>>>proportion of air to fuel. Rather than using a spark plug to
>>>>ignite the air-fuel mixture, however, the mixture is compressed by
>>>>the piston until rising temperatures inside the chamber ignite it
>>>>spontaneously - a process similar to that used in a diesel engine
>>>>(hence, "compression ignition"), but at a much lower temperature.
>>>>The lower combustion temperature, combined with the high ratio of
>>>>air to fuel, known as lean operation, virtually eliminates NOx
>>>>emissions and lowers throttling losses, which leads to a
>>>>significant boost in fuel economy. In other words, if it works -
>>>>it's all good. ---
>>>>
>>>>Patrick
>>>>'93 Cobra
>>>>
>>>

>>

>


  Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2005, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:38:15 GMT, Joe <avoidingspam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still don't
>have government funding for research like that is proof that these
>morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize that it's
>supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of for themselves.
>
>

Sad, but such concepts have not been realized from the very beginning.
Politicians have, from the days of the founders, been elitists who
believed the common man was not smart enough to know what was good for
the country and themselves. That they lacked the education and the
vested interest. Frontiersmen, women, slaves, Indians, and anyone who
did not own land were not deem worthy of the vote by the wealthy,
educated, landowners.

New people always go in believing they can fix the problem, but very
quickly realize they can do nothing unless the go with the flow. I
imagine, most people, if given a job where they decided their own pay
raises and benefits would be the same.

However, we USED to have "majority rule", but that has been eroded by
the courts and the ACLU.

As for government funding... people are still against government
funding for mass transit, and similar programs, let alone support
paying for something private companies will make profits from.

People are still angry that "to save jobs and the economy" the
government bailed out a private auto corporation. Many politicians
will recall the flak they took for that, and watch their backs before
taking such a plunge.

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

Gad what fools these morons be....
Children are obscene but should not be heard
Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2005, 13:01   #7 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Joe wrote:
> Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still don't
> have government funding for research like that is proof that these
> morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize that it's
> supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of for themselves.


Self preservation seems to be the biggest concern of our esteemed
politicians. Being energy independent is as much a national security
issue as an environmental one. It is really going to take the public at
large to make a change occur. If we would elect politicians than will
promote a change then it would happen. In the end it we can only blame
ourselves.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2005, 22:02   #8 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

The people are still awaiting real tax reform, medical coverage, and a
host of other things. And they have been electing people who at least
say they want to fix the problems.

Personally, I'd rather have a candidate who stands up and says,
'folks, elect me. I make no promises, but I will do the best I can for
the people I represent at home, and for the nation. I can't promise
any more than that." That's better than hearing all the promises and
never seeing one go through.

Until the entire Congress can be replaced at the same time, I doubt
it's ever gonna happen, 'cause the good ol' boys will still influence
the newbies. Cripes... Look at Ted Kennedy, among others.


On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:35:44 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>> Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still don't
>> have government funding for research like that is proof that these
>> morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize that it's
>> supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of for themselves.

>
>Self preservation seems to be the biggest concern of our esteemed
>politicians. Being energy independent is as much a national security
>issue as an environmental one. It is really going to take the public at
>large to make a change occur. If we would elect politicians than will
>promote a change then it would happen. In the end it we can only blame
>ourselves.


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

Gad what fools these morons be....
Children are obscene but should not be heard
Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 06:01   #9 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

I have stated this before but I believe there will be an independent or
third party candidate elected as president in the next 25 years. It
could have happened already but the ones with the best chance went loony
on us. Ross Perot was a smidgen away before he whacked out and made
stupid claims about Bush Sr. wrecking his daughter's wedding. Jesse
Ventura was another that decided to do weekend work while Governor. One
day the right candidate will surface and it will really rock the two
parties. The trouble is our election system doesn't lend itself to more
than two candidates since we don't have runoff elections. We could have
five candidates and the winner could get just 21% of the vote.

Spike wrote:
> The people are still awaiting real tax reform, medical coverage, and a
> host of other things. And they have been electing people who at least
> say they want to fix the problems.
>
> Personally, I'd rather have a candidate who stands up and says,
> 'folks, elect me. I make no promises, but I will do the best I can for
> the people I represent at home, and for the nation. I can't promise
> any more than that." That's better than hearing all the promises and
> never seeing one go through.
>
> Until the entire Congress can be replaced at the same time, I doubt
> it's ever gonna happen, 'cause the good ol' boys will still influence
> the newbies. Cripes... Look at Ted Kennedy, among others.
>
>
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:35:44 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still don't
>>>have government funding for research like that is proof that these
>>>morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize that it's
>>>supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of for themselves.

>>
>>Self preservation seems to be the biggest concern of our esteemed
>>politicians. Being energy independent is as much a national security
>>issue as an environmental one. It is really going to take the public at
>>large to make a change occur. If we would elect politicians than will
>>promote a change then it would happen. In the end it we can only blame
>>ourselves.

>
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
>
> Gad what fools these morons be....
> Children are obscene but should not be heard
> Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2005, 11:02   #10 (permalink)
Joe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion

Just saw the tail end of a story on Kinky Friedman on the CBS Sunday
Morning news show. Apparently, he's running for some office in Texas
somewhere. Now he's one of those guys you're talking about, eh? ;)


"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in
news:wJWdncrAYJXi9pXeRVn-hg@giganews.com:

> I have stated this before but I believe there will be an independent
> or third party candidate elected as president in the next 25 years.
> It could have happened already but the ones with the best chance
> went loony on us. Ross Perot was a smidgen away before he whacked
> out and made stupid claims about Bush Sr. wrecking his daughter's
> wedding. Jesse Ventura was another that decided to do weekend work
> while Governor. One day the right candidate will surface and it
> will really rock the two parties. The trouble is our election
> system doesn't lend itself to more than two candidates since we
> don't have runoff elections. We could have five candidates and the
> winner could get just 21% of the vote.
>
> Spike wrote:
>> The people are still awaiting real tax reform, medical coverage,
>> and a host of other things. And they have been electing people who
>> at least say they want to fix the problems.
>>
>> Personally, I'd rather have a candidate who stands up and says,
>> 'folks, elect me. I make no promises, but I will do the best I can
>> for the people I represent at home, and for the nation. I can't
>> promise any more than that." That's better than hearing all the
>> promises and never seeing one go through.
>>
>> Until the entire Congress can be replaced at the same time, I doubt
>> it's ever gonna happen, 'cause the good ol' boys will still
>> influence the newbies. Cripes... Look at Ted Kennedy, among others.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:35:44 -0400, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>>Right on the money as usual, Michael. The fact that we still
>>>>don't have government funding for research like that is proof that
>>>>these morons (both Repubs and Dems) need to wake up and realize
>>>>that it's supposed to be government _for the people_ instead of
>>>>for themselves.
>>>
>>>Self preservation seems to be the biggest concern of our esteemed
>>>politicians. Being energy independent is as much a national
>>>security issue as an environmental one. It is really going to take
>>>the public at large to make a change occur. If we would elect
>>>politicians than will promote a change then it would happen. In
>>>the end it we can only blame ourselves.

>>
>>
>> Spike
>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
>> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
>> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
>>
>> Gad what fools these morons be....
>> Children are obscene but should not be heard
>> Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!

>


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Related Reading: Getting Yet More Efficiency From Internal Combustion


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