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Old 07-08-2005, 16:03   #1 (permalink)
RichA
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If you have your choice...

What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
-Supercharger.
-Nitrous
-More cubic inches
-A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?

Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
is perhaps easier.
-Rich
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Old 07-08-2005, 16:03   #2 (permalink)
memset@cellulean.com
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Re: If you have your choice...

I put a 75 shot of nitrous on my 98 Mustang GT a/b a month or so ago.
Loving every bit of it.

If I had to pick... I'd probably go with a built motor w/ a
supercharger (ie: 03/04 SVT Cobra). After that.. I'd probably pick a
built motor w/ nitrous OR more cubic inches... torn between those 2
(weight issue comes into play though w/ more cubic inches--not THAT
much though).

-Mike

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Old 07-08-2005, 16:03   #3 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
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Re: If you have your choice...

RichA wrote:
> What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
> -Supercharger.
> -Nitrous
> -More cubic inches
> -A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
>
> Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
> it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
> is perhaps easier.
> -Rich


A twin screw blower or turbos is the best route, IMO. A twin screw
blower on an '03-'04 Cobra gets you a reliable 600 rwhp/rwtq out of
4.6L. Plus when you keep your foot light you get the mileage benefits
of a smaller displacement engine. When an engine is properly designed
for forced induction it is very rugged and reliable, even under high
boost conditions.
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Old 07-08-2005, 18:01   #4 (permalink)
Wound Up
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Re: If you have your choice...

"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:3gptc1lge1mlgm0t56n1sj2qpbbmmmfdh3@4ax.com...
> What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
> -Supercharger.
> -Nitrous
> -More cubic inches


Of course more inches, because as they say there's no replacement for
displacement. Blow it, turbocharge it, juice it, cam the shit out of it,
but big inches still rules. You can run 10s without any of that crap on a
junkyard 460 with the right induction and exhaust. I know a guy who does
every weekend.

And do those mods to a BB motor and you're talking four-digit horsepower
that you can actually drive around. And screw gas mileage. That's what
beaters are for. In street trim, the 1970 Ford 460 put out 505 lbs/ft. of
torque. You can rub the damned valve covers clean and get 10 hp out of
those things due to improved heat dissipation. ;^)

> -A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
>
> Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
> it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
> is perhaps easier.


You are a wise man. All that stuff complicates things and affects
reliability. Big-inch motors rule, period.

> -Rich



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Old 07-08-2005, 23:02   #5 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: If you have your choice...

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> RichA wrote:
> > What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
> > -Supercharger.
> > -Nitrous
> > -More cubic inches
> > -A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
> >
> > Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
> > it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
> > is perhaps easier.
> > -Rich

>
> A twin screw blower or turbos is the best route, IMO. A twin screw
> blower on an '03-'04 Cobra gets you a reliable 600 rwhp/rwtq out of
> 4.6L. Plus when you keep your foot light you get the mileage benefits
> of a smaller displacement engine. When an engine is properly designed
> for forced induction it is very rugged and reliable, even under high
> boost conditions.


I'm with MJ. Two small turbos, an air-to-air intercooler, and EFI on a
302 or 331 -- that's the ultimate. Nitrous is only good till the
bottle runs out. Anything over 350 ci, you're stuck with terrible gas
mileage all the time. A turbo small block doesn't need all that much
cam, and if gas hits $3-4/gal, you just dial back the waste gate. A
big block destroys handling and braking, and because you can't
eliminate the low end torque if you want to have anything left up top,
it's alot harder to hook up. The twin screw is attractive, but it's
not easy to control the low end torque either.

180 Out

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Old 07-08-2005, 23:02   #6 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
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Re: If you have your choice...

one80out@hotmail.com wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>>RichA wrote:
>>
>>>What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
>>>-Supercharger.
>>>-Nitrous
>>>-More cubic inches
>>>-A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
>>>
>>>Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
>>>it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
>>>is perhaps easier.
>>>-Rich

>>
>>A twin screw blower or turbos is the best route, IMO. A twin screw
>>blower on an '03-'04 Cobra gets you a reliable 600 rwhp/rwtq out of
>>4.6L. Plus when you keep your foot light you get the mileage benefits
>>of a smaller displacement engine. When an engine is properly designed
>>for forced induction it is very rugged and reliable, even under high
>>boost conditions.

>
>
> I'm with MJ. Two small turbos, an air-to-air intercooler, and EFI on a
> 302 or 331 -- that's the ultimate. Nitrous is only good till the
> bottle runs out. Anything over 350 ci, you're stuck with terrible gas
> mileage all the time. A turbo small block doesn't need all that much
> cam, and if gas hits $3-4/gal, you just dial back the waste gate. A
> big block destroys handling and braking, and because you can't
> eliminate the low end torque if you want to have anything left up top,
> it's alot harder to hook up. The twin screw is attractive, but it's
> not easy to control the low end torque either.


One other benefit of twin screws and turbos is that will actually
produce more torque across the rpm range than a N/A big block. My '89
LX with a stock short block, twin screw blower, and 16 psi made 460 rwtq
at 2,500 rpm on a dyno pull. It held 400+ rwtq until 5,500 rpm. On a
331 stroker, using an 8.5:1 CR, A302 block, forged parts and
heads/intake/cam to promote high air flow the torque curve would bring a
tear to your eye.

That being said there are benefits the large displacement engines. They
are less complex. This is why I still plan to drop a 427W into the '89
LX one day.
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Old 07-08-2005, 23:02   #7 (permalink)
Jim Warman
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Re: If you have your choice...

Depends on what you want to do.... and what your future goals are. Your auto
enhancements are part of a complete package. When you set out to increase
performance, you should have a goal and work towards it. Willy-nilly mods
are counterproductive and can even limit performance capabilities.


"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:3gptc1lge1mlgm0t56n1sj2qpbbmmmfdh3@4ax.com...
> What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
> -Supercharger.
> -Nitrous
> -More cubic inches
> -A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
>
> Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
> it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
> is perhaps easier.
> -Rich



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Old 07-08-2005, 23:02   #8 (permalink)
Scott Van Nest
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Re: If you have your choice...

>You can rub the damned valve covers clean and get 10 hp out of
>those things due to improved heat dissipation. ;^)


I like your style. The more BB posts I read, the more I want to drop a 460
in the '71.

Scott


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Old 07-09-2005, 12:02   #9 (permalink)
Chris Shea
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Re: If you have your choice...

hello all - good discussion...

is it not true that a positive displacement supercharger effectively "adds"
cubic inches? for instance the stock eaton m-112 on the 03/04 cobra
actually adds (taking into account inefficency losses) approx 80 cubes to
the 281 modular (4.6), effectively making it around 350 ci engine? and a
2.2 kenne-bell twin-screw which equals 134.4 cubic inches, would add 90 or
so (after losses)? and then the 2.4 kenne-bell even more? i had read that
the inefficiencies of a supercharger equate to only about 70% of the total
displacement.

with regards to the gas mileage argument, and it may or may not be directly
related to the above, my experience is showing that although there is a very
small displacement modular under that blower, it's as thirsty as a big
block. i'm not talking about around town driving when i'm constantly into
the boost from light to light. i mean the best highway mileage i can get out
of this car is about 21-22... real highway 6th gear cruising. i average
only 10-12 city with an overall average of 13.5. those numbers remind me of
60's big block muscle type mileage - pretty bad. i know that this is a
heavy car, and rear end gearing and transmission overdives play a big part
in it. but the idea that you can take a small engine and get the benefits
by staying out of the boost does not seem to be working for me in the real
world. my 96 gt vert (stock with a 3.27 rear) would get around 21/22 city
and 28/30 highway, and that is with only 1 overdrive gear. it was a lighter
car than this 04 cobra, but still, that is a pretty big difference - and gas
aint cheap these days. that being said, trying to get good gas mileage is
NOT why i buy an american v-8...

from what i understand, the chevy ls-1's which are powerful engines, get 30
highway - even in the heavier cambirds. i think they have 3.55 gears with
the t-56 like my car, but are a little lighter? so i can see the logic in
the argument that cubic inches is king and why chevy has stuck with their
simple ohv small block but just kept the displacment large and the
compression high.

chris
04 comp orange cobra vert


<one80out@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120868950.942865.189950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> > RichA wrote:
> > > What method of horsepower increase would you choose?
> > > -Supercharger.
> > > -Nitrous
> > > -More cubic inches
> > > -A more refined (upped compression, etc) motor?
> > >
> > > Personally, I think more cubes is the sensible path, owing to
> > > it's simplicity, but then bolting on a supercharger or nox bottle
> > > is perhaps easier.
> > > -Rich

> >
> > A twin screw blower or turbos is the best route, IMO. A twin screw
> > blower on an '03-'04 Cobra gets you a reliable 600 rwhp/rwtq out of
> > 4.6L. Plus when you keep your foot light you get the mileage benefits
> > of a smaller displacement engine. When an engine is properly designed
> > for forced induction it is very rugged and reliable, even under high
> > boost conditions.

>
> I'm with MJ. Two small turbos, an air-to-air intercooler, and EFI on a
> 302 or 331 -- that's the ultimate. Nitrous is only good till the
> bottle runs out. Anything over 350 ci, you're stuck with terrible gas
> mileage all the time. A turbo small block doesn't need all that much
> cam, and if gas hits $3-4/gal, you just dial back the waste gate. A
> big block destroys handling and braking, and because you can't
> eliminate the low end torque if you want to have anything left up top,
> it's alot harder to hook up. The twin screw is attractive, but it's
> not easy to control the low end torque either.
>
> 180 Out
>



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Old 07-09-2005, 12:02   #10 (permalink)
wabbitslayer
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Posts: n/a
Re: If you have your choice...

Bennett Racing in AL has a windsor based 427 stroker supposedly good for
600hp naturally aspirated on 91 octane.
I'm thinking one of those with a KB Blowzilla stuck on top.



Wabbitslayer
01 GT vert





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