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Old 09-18-2005, 20:01   #1 (permalink)
Michael price
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k&n air filter

i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
a diffrence? mp

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Old 09-18-2005, 22:01   #2 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
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Re: k&n air filter

Michael price wrote:
> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
> a diffrence? mp


OMG!!! You've started it now! Let the games begin. :)
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Old 09-18-2005, 22:01   #3 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: k&n air filter

michaelvprice@webtv.net (Michael price) wrote in news:10206-432E270E-786
@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net:

> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
> a diffrence? mp
>


Maybe a couple... but only noticable in the same way as a good
wash/wax/detail job.

IOW, all in yer head.
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Old 09-19-2005, 04:01   #4 (permalink)
Ritz
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Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

Michael price wrote:
> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
> a diffrence? mp
>


The difference isn't really noticible. And that "extra" HP is at the
expense of letting more dirt into your engine and possibly contaminating
your MAF with the filter oil. If you'll google a bit, you can find a
study comparing amount of particulates allowed to pass in a test of
various filters. If I recall correctly, the K&N filter allowed 3-4
times the amount of particulates through when compared to a stock paper
filter.

Cheers,
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:01   #5 (permalink)
Me
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Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this is
not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as well
as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as a
paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an improvement, and
I have used these in two different cars.


"Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
> a diffrence? mp
>



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Old 09-19-2005, 11:01   #6 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
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Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

To add a little balance to the K&N bashing I'll give my own personal,
real world experience with K&N filters. I have had one installed in my
'89 LX since it had 30,000 miles on the odometer. I now have 156,000
hard driven miles on the car with the last 20,000 using a Kenne Bell
supercharger. I still use the same K&N filter I installed at 30,000
miles. There are multitudes of K&N users with my experience. BTW, the
car uses no more oil than it did when new.

All this "K&N is crap" stuff is just that, crap. EVERY FILTER lets dirt
into the engine. IMO, a K&N filter will do no more harm to an engine
than an OEM filter. While a K&N might only make 5 more hp on a
basically stock engine, the real dividends come when the car is
progressively modified. A car with a blower, head work, cam etc. will
see an appreciable gain between an OEM and a K&N filter.

Before anyone starts linking web sites with tests, keep in mind who may
have done the tests and their motives. Also, there are many tests that
are just plain unscientific and should be ignored. As for me, I have
100,000+ miles of personal experience to base my opinion on. Fact is
that many of those that bash K&N products have ABSOLUTELY ZERO
EXPERIENCE with them and have no idea whether their claims against K&N
filter's performance is accurate or not.

My personal experience makes me believe a K&N filter WILL NOT shorten
the life of your engine if you change your oil as recommended for your
driving conditions and generally keep your vehicle in a good state of
maintenance and repair.

Me wrote:
> A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
> cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this is
> not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as well
> as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
> comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as a
> paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an improvement, and
> I have used these in two different cars.
>
>
> "Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
>> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
>> a diffrence? mp


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Old 09-19-2005, 11:01   #7 (permalink)
razz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

I have to agree with Michael here on this one. If you are using it on a
stock engine, not really worth it. But I drag race, and use nothing but, and
pretty much all the cars I race have them on their cars. I'm majorally moded
up, and have gained aprox 10hps with the filter, and have put some miles on
the car with absolutely no affects to the motor. Have done a tear down to
freshen up the bottom end from time to time, and have found no dirt
particles or scoring on the cylinder walls, or the crank, or the journals
and bearings. So believe what you want to believe, I know they do no harm
when properly maintained. provided you are not using it in dusty conditions
all the time.
"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
news:EoOdnbs9udAlbbPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
> To add a little balance to the K&N bashing I'll give my own personal,
> real world experience with K&N filters. I have had one installed in my
> '89 LX since it had 30,000 miles on the odometer. I now have 156,000
> hard driven miles on the car with the last 20,000 using a Kenne Bell
> supercharger. I still use the same K&N filter I installed at 30,000
> miles. There are multitudes of K&N users with my experience. BTW, the
> car uses no more oil than it did when new.
>
> All this "K&N is crap" stuff is just that, crap. EVERY FILTER lets dirt
> into the engine. IMO, a K&N filter will do no more harm to an engine
> than an OEM filter. While a K&N might only make 5 more hp on a
> basically stock engine, the real dividends come when the car is
> progressively modified. A car with a blower, head work, cam etc. will
> see an appreciable gain between an OEM and a K&N filter.
>
> Before anyone starts linking web sites with tests, keep in mind who may
> have done the tests and their motives. Also, there are many tests that
> are just plain unscientific and should be ignored. As for me, I have
> 100,000+ miles of personal experience to base my opinion on. Fact is
> that many of those that bash K&N products have ABSOLUTELY ZERO
> EXPERIENCE with them and have no idea whether their claims against K&N
> filter's performance is accurate or not.
>
> My personal experience makes me believe a K&N filter WILL NOT shorten
> the life of your engine if you change your oil as recommended for your
> driving conditions and generally keep your vehicle in a good state of
> maintenance and repair.
>
> Me wrote:
> > A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
> > cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this

is
> > not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as

well
> > as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
> > comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as a
> > paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an improvement,

and
> > I have used these in two different cars.
> >
> >
> > "Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
> >> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
> >> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really

make
> >> a diffrence? mp

>



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Old 09-19-2005, 12:01   #8 (permalink)
walt peifer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter


"razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
news:9OCXe.4449$qP3.46858@news1.mts.net...
>I have to agree with Michael here on this one. If you are using it on a
> stock engine, not really worth it. But I drag race, and use nothing but,
> and
> pretty much all the cars I race have them on their cars. I'm majorally
> moded
> up, and have gained aprox 10hps with the filter, and have put some miles
> on
> the car with absolutely no affects to the motor. Have done a tear down to
> freshen up the bottom end from time to time, and have found no dirt
> particles or scoring on the cylinder walls, or the crank, or the journals
> and bearings. So believe what you want to believe, I know they do no harm
> when properly maintained. provided you are not using it in dusty
> conditions
> all the time.
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:EoOdnbs9udAlbbPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>> To add a little balance to the K&N bashing I'll give my own personal,
>> real world experience with K&N filters. I have had one installed in my
>> '89 LX since it had 30,000 miles on the odometer. I now have 156,000
>> hard driven miles on the car with the last 20,000 using a Kenne Bell
>> supercharger. I still use the same K&N filter I installed at 30,000
>> miles. There are multitudes of K&N users with my experience. BTW, the
>> car uses no more oil than it did when new.
>>
>> All this "K&N is crap" stuff is just that, crap. EVERY FILTER lets dirt
>> into the engine. IMO, a K&N filter will do no more harm to an engine
>> than an OEM filter. While a K&N might only make 5 more hp on a
>> basically stock engine, the real dividends come when the car is
>> progressively modified. A car with a blower, head work, cam etc. will
>> see an appreciable gain between an OEM and a K&N filter.
>>
>> Before anyone starts linking web sites with tests, keep in mind who may
>> have done the tests and their motives. Also, there are many tests that
>> are just plain unscientific and should be ignored. As for me, I have
>> 100,000+ miles of personal experience to base my opinion on. Fact is
>> that many of those that bash K&N products have ABSOLUTELY ZERO
>> EXPERIENCE with them and have no idea whether their claims against K&N
>> filter's performance is accurate or not.
>>
>> My personal experience makes me believe a K&N filter WILL NOT shorten
>> the life of your engine if you change your oil as recommended for your
>> driving conditions and generally keep your vehicle in a good state of
>> maintenance and repair.
>>
>> Me wrote:
>> > A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
>> > cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this

> is
>> > not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as

> well
>> > as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
>> > comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as
>> > a
>> > paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an
>> > improvement,

> and
>> > I have used these in two different cars.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> > news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>> >> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
>> >> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really

> make
>> >> a diffrence? mp

on my bone stock 97 XR7 i took the damn thing off after about 3 months,
could not stand the dam whistle. no noticable difference is the feel of the
car stock to KN but gas milage did increase from 16 mpg average to 17.5 when
i put the stock breather box back in place


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Old 09-19-2005, 13:01   #9 (permalink)
Me
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

I did not say that this filter would shorten the life of an engine or do any
harm. If taking issue with their increase horsepower claims is "K&N
bashing", guilty as charged. In there zeal to sell product, they make claims
that can not be proven outside of their own "testing." It seems to me the
term "Filtercharger" implies that the filter will increase air flow.
Also, I wasn't talking about a racing application. Having been in the
industry for 20 plus years, attended multiple SEMA shows as a Performance
Warehouse Industry buyer, I know all about the product. I bought the line
direct when they first started selling filters for automotive applications.
My SHO, 1965 GT-350 Shelby and my GS430 Lexus all have them. I stand by my
original statement. If your present air filter is restrictive, you may gain
power with a K&N, but the filter does not magically add power.
Thanks
Bill
Former NHRA Super Stock Eliminator National Record Holder.

"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
news:EoOdnbs9udAlbbPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
> To add a little balance to the K&N bashing I'll give my own personal, real
> world experience with K&N filters. I have had one installed in my '89 LX
> since it had 30,000 miles on the odometer. I now have 156,000 hard driven
> miles on the car with the last 20,000 using a Kenne Bell supercharger. I
> still use the same K&N filter I installed at 30,000 miles. There are
> multitudes of K&N users with my experience. BTW, the car uses no more oil
> than it did when new.
>
> All this "K&N is crap" stuff is just that, crap. EVERY FILTER lets dirt
> into the engine. IMO, a K&N filter will do no more harm to an engine than
> an OEM filter. While a K&N might only make 5 more hp on a basically stock
> engine, the real dividends come when the car is progressively modified. A
> car with a blower, head work, cam etc. will see an appreciable gain
> between an OEM and a K&N filter.
>
> Before anyone starts linking web sites with tests, keep in mind who may
> have done the tests and their motives. Also, there are many tests that
> are just plain unscientific and should be ignored. As for me, I have
> 100,000+ miles of personal experience to base my opinion on. Fact is that
> many of those that bash K&N products have ABSOLUTELY ZERO EXPERIENCE with
> them and have no idea whether their claims against K&N filter's
> performance is accurate or not.
>
> My personal experience makes me believe a K&N filter WILL NOT shorten the
> life of your engine if you change your oil as recommended for your driving
> conditions and generally keep your vehicle in a good state of maintenance
> and repair.
>
> Me wrote:
>> A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
>> cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this is
>> not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as
>> well as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
>> comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as a
>> paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an improvement,
>> and I have used these in two different cars.
>>
>>
>> "Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>>> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
>>> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really make
>>> a diffrence? mp

>



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Old 09-19-2005, 17:01   #10 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: k&n air filter

walt peifer wrote:
> "razz" <razz@mts.net> wrote in message
> news:9OCXe.4449$qP3.46858@news1.mts.net...
>> I have to agree with Michael here on this one. If you are using it on a
>> stock engine, not really worth it. But I drag race, and use nothing but,
>> and
>> pretty much all the cars I race have them on their cars. I'm majorally
>> moded
>> up, and have gained aprox 10hps with the filter, and have put some miles
>> on
>> the car with absolutely no affects to the motor. Have done a tear down to
>> freshen up the bottom end from time to time, and have found no dirt
>> particles or scoring on the cylinder walls, or the crank, or the journals
>> and bearings. So believe what you want to believe, I know they do no harm
>> when properly maintained. provided you are not using it in dusty
>> conditions
>> all the time.
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message
>> news:EoOdnbs9udAlbbPeRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>>> To add a little balance to the K&N bashing I'll give my own personal,
>>> real world experience with K&N filters. I have had one installed in my
>>> '89 LX since it had 30,000 miles on the odometer. I now have 156,000
>>> hard driven miles on the car with the last 20,000 using a Kenne Bell
>>> supercharger. I still use the same K&N filter I installed at 30,000
>>> miles. There are multitudes of K&N users with my experience. BTW, the
>>> car uses no more oil than it did when new.
>>>
>>> All this "K&N is crap" stuff is just that, crap. EVERY FILTER lets dirt
>>> into the engine. IMO, a K&N filter will do no more harm to an engine
>>> than an OEM filter. While a K&N might only make 5 more hp on a
>>> basically stock engine, the real dividends come when the car is
>>> progressively modified. A car with a blower, head work, cam etc. will
>>> see an appreciable gain between an OEM and a K&N filter.
>>>
>>> Before anyone starts linking web sites with tests, keep in mind who may
>>> have done the tests and their motives. Also, there are many tests that
>>> are just plain unscientific and should be ignored. As for me, I have
>>> 100,000+ miles of personal experience to base my opinion on. Fact is
>>> that many of those that bash K&N products have ABSOLUTELY ZERO
>>> EXPERIENCE with them and have no idea whether their claims against K&N
>>> filter's performance is accurate or not.
>>>
>>> My personal experience makes me believe a K&N filter WILL NOT shorten
>>> the life of your engine if you change your oil as recommended for your
>>> driving conditions and generally keep your vehicle in a good state of
>>> maintenance and repair.
>>>
>>> Me wrote:
>>>> A giant rip-off. The only way it can add power is if your present air
>>>> cleaner system is restricting air flow. On most later model cars, this

>> is
>>>> not the case. Also, no matter what they tell you, it doesn't filter as

>> well
>>>> as a stock element. I don't have the site handy, but someone did an
>>>> comprehensive study and found the K&N did not filter as efficiently as
>>>> a
>>>> paper element air cleaner. I have never seen any kind of an
>>>> improvement,

>> and
>>>> I have used these in two different cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Michael price" <michaelvprice@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:10206-432E270E-786@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>>>>> i have a stock 99 gt. i have read where this air filter alone does add
>>>>> some HP. they cost around $50. anyone here use 1 and do they really

>> make
>>>>> a diffrence? mp

> on my bone stock 97 XR7 i took the damn thing off after about 3 months,
> could not stand the dam whistle. no noticable difference is the feel of the
> car stock to KN but gas milage did increase from 16 mpg average to 17.5 when
> i put the stock breather box back in place


Taking the stock air box out of newer cars isn't always the best choice.
Many times the air box, filter and intake tubing is designed to work
together for best performance. I still use the stock air filter box on
my '89 LX even with all the mods. It works fine with the K&N. My
advice it to either just swap the filter or replace the box, filter and
tubing with a quality engineered system. The fact you didn't use the
stock air box was likely the reason for the mileage drop not the K&N
filter. Had you used a K&N filter that fit the stock box the results
could have been different.
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