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Old 04-10-2005, 22:01   #41 (permalink)
Daniel J. Stern
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Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, y_p_w wrote:

> > General Electric = American jobs saved

>
> How so? Most of the GE bulbs I've seen recently are made in Eastern
> Europe.


Many of their miniature bulbs, their European halogens and some of
their 9005-9006s are made at the Hungarian Tungsram facility
(quality stuff, most of it -- much better than the Chinese crapola
Sylvania's been moving to).

> Osram-Sylvania still has production in the US.


less and less.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:02   #42 (permalink)
y_p_w
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Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR



Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, y_p_w wrote:
>
>
>>>General Electric = American jobs saved

>>
>>How so? Most of the GE bulbs I've seen recently are made in Eastern
>>Europe.

>
>
> Many of their miniature bulbs, their European halogens and some of
> their 9005-9006s are made at the Hungarian Tungsram facility
> (quality stuff, most of it -- much better than the Chinese crapola
> Sylvania's been moving to).


I just stopped by Wal-Mart and looked at their selection of GE and
Sylvania bulbs. The majority of the Sylvania halogens were made in
the US, while the GE's were made in Slovakia or Hungary. Of the
mini bulbs, both seemed to be made in various places, including
Taiwan, China, Slovakia, Hungary, and Korea. They seem to just
buy from wherever they can get the best price. They only carried
the more expensive Sylvania halogens (Cool Blue, XtraVision, and
Silverstar).

>>Osram-Sylvania still has production in the US.

>
> less and less.


That's the way of the world. I was reading an article on a plastics
manufacturer in the US who's on hard times. He made a visit to a
Chinese plastics factory, and noted how much more advanced the
equipment was there that what he could afford. However - I tend to
agree that the majority of inexpensive goods made in China are of
"lowest bidder" quality. When it comes to clothing, is there really
going to be much better quality than Far East labor compared to an
American plant with mostly immigrant labor manning sewing machines?
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:01   #43 (permalink)
Buford T. Justice
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Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

I bought a set of the GE NIGHTHAWK 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/11. They are
good, but still not as bright as I wanted. If I had to describe their
brightness, I would have to they are pretty close to Sylvania Cool Blues.

That being said, I exchanged the NIGHTHAWK bulbs for some Sylvania
SilverStar 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/21. MUCH BETTER! The light from the
SilverStars is perfectly white and I can see more at night. The light has
no blue tint even though the bulb's glass has a blue tint. I like my light
bright and white!

BTJustice

"Buford T. Justice" <???@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:sWe5e.518$Zn3.437@trnddc02...
> Has anyone tried the new GE NIGHTHAWK Headlights? Are they brighter and
> better than Sylvania SilverStar Headlights?
>
> http://www.ge.com/stories/en/20287.h...y=Product_Home
>
> http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProd...ar/default.htm
>



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Old 04-21-2005, 16:01   #44 (permalink)
Daniel J. Stern
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Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Buford T. Justice wrote:

> I bought a set of the GE NIGHTHAWK 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/11. They
> are good, but still not as bright as I wanted. If I had to describe
> their brightness, I would have to they are pretty close to Sylvania Cool
> Blues. That being said, I exchanged the NIGHTHAWK bulbs for some
> Sylvania SilverStar 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/21. MUCH BETTER! The
> light from the SilverStars is perfectly white and I can see more at
> night.


Congratulations, Buford...you just fell victim to an optical illusion
that's more than a hundred years old.

The human visual system is a hugely subjective judge of what it sees, and
there are lots of ways to fool people into believing they're seeing
"better" when they're actually (and measurably, and demonstrably) seeing
very much worse. Bluer light (as from Silverstars) and higher levels of
foreground light are sure-fire ways of reducing actual seeing performance
while causing people to go "Ooh, MUCH BETTER!".

Bottom line: You make Sylvania's marketeers happy, but your actual seeing
performance is reduced. When you *think* you can see better but you
*actually* can't, your safety is reduced.

DS
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:01   #45 (permalink)
Buford T. Justice
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Posts: n/a
Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

What about on the back of the SilverStar box that says regular halogens are
at 3200 K whereas the SilverStars are at 4000 K. Daylight is 5400 K.

Also, why on the back of the same box are there 3 pictures one of which is a
standard halogen, the other a Cool Blue, and the last a SilverStar which
shows the standard halogen as a yellow colored light, the Cool Blue a blue
color and dimmer, and the SilverStar brighter and whiter?

BTJustice

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0504211742260.20544@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Buford T. Justice wrote:
>
>> I bought a set of the GE NIGHTHAWK 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/11. They
>> are good, but still not as bright as I wanted. If I had to describe
>> their brightness, I would have to they are pretty close to Sylvania Cool
>> Blues. That being said, I exchanged the NIGHTHAWK bulbs for some
>> Sylvania SilverStar 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/21. MUCH BETTER! The
>> light from the SilverStars is perfectly white and I can see more at
>> night.

>
> Congratulations, Buford...you just fell victim to an optical illusion
> that's more than a hundred years old.
>
> The human visual system is a hugely subjective judge of what it sees, and
> there are lots of ways to fool people into believing they're seeing
> "better" when they're actually (and measurably, and demonstrably) seeing
> very much worse. Bluer light (as from Silverstars) and higher levels of
> foreground light are sure-fire ways of reducing actual seeing performance
> while causing people to go "Ooh, MUCH BETTER!".
>
> Bottom line: You make Sylvania's marketeers happy, but your actual seeing
> performance is reduced. When you *think* you can see better but you
> *actually* can't, your safety is reduced.
>
> DS



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Old 04-22-2005, 04:01   #46 (permalink)
Nate Nagel
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Posts: n/a
Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

Buford T. Justice wrote:

> What about on the back of the SilverStar box that says regular halogens are
> at 3200 K whereas the SilverStars are at 4000 K. Daylight is 5400 K.
>
> Also, why on the back of the same box are there 3 pictures one of which is a
> standard halogen, the other a Cool Blue, and the last a SilverStar which
> shows the standard halogen as a yellow colored light, the Cool Blue a blue
> color and dimmer, and the SilverStar brighter and whiter?
>
> BTJustice


Because the SiverStar box has copy that's designed to make you want to
buy SilverStars. Geez, I thought that was so basic it wasn't worth comment.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:01   #47 (permalink)
Buford T. Justice
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Posts: n/a
Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

This website has good pictures of the difference I am seeing...

http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProd...ar/default.htm

And here is a quote for this website...

http://www.roadandtravel.com/safetya...velighting.htm

"According to a research study conducted by the Lighting Research Center at
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in Troy, N.Y., SYLVANIA's high
performance halogen headlights produce a whiter light that helps improve a
driver's ability to see roadside objects, such as street signs. The whiter
headlights also help drivers improve their reaction time and avoid potential
road hazards."

BTJustice

"Buford T. Justice" <???@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:004ae.12753$c93.11855@trnddc08...
> What about on the back of the SilverStar box that says regular halogens
> are at 3200 K whereas the SilverStars are at 4000 K. Daylight is 5400 K.
>
> Also, why on the back of the same box are there 3 pictures one of which is
> a standard halogen, the other a Cool Blue, and the last a SilverStar which
> shows the standard halogen as a yellow colored light, the Cool Blue a blue
> color and dimmer, and the SilverStar brighter and whiter?
>
> BTJustice
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0504211742260.20544@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Buford T. Justice wrote:
>>
>>> I bought a set of the GE NIGHTHAWK 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/11. They
>>> are good, but still not as bright as I wanted. If I had to describe
>>> their brightness, I would have to they are pretty close to Sylvania Cool
>>> Blues. That being said, I exchanged the NIGHTHAWK bulbs for some
>>> Sylvania SilverStar 9007 headlight bulbs on 4/21. MUCH BETTER! The
>>> light from the SilverStars is perfectly white and I can see more at
>>> night.

>>
>> Congratulations, Buford...you just fell victim to an optical illusion
>> that's more than a hundred years old.
>>
>> The human visual system is a hugely subjective judge of what it sees, and
>> there are lots of ways to fool people into believing they're seeing
>> "better" when they're actually (and measurably, and demonstrably) seeing
>> very much worse. Bluer light (as from Silverstars) and higher levels of
>> foreground light are sure-fire ways of reducing actual seeing performance
>> while causing people to go "Ooh, MUCH BETTER!".
>>
>> Bottom line: You make Sylvania's marketeers happy, but your actual seeing
>> performance is reduced. When you *think* you can see better but you
>> *actually* can't, your safety is reduced.
>>
>> DS

>
>



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Old 04-22-2005, 04:01   #48 (permalink)
Buford T. Justice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

That would be false advertising and a lawsuit. Since there is no lawsuit or
people filing one I am led to believe their advertising is truthful.

BTJustice

"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message
news:ecudnfM85agQUPXfRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
> Buford T. Justice wrote:
>
>> What about on the back of the SilverStar box that says regular halogens
>> are at 3200 K whereas the SilverStars are at 4000 K. Daylight is 5400 K.
>>
>> Also, why on the back of the same box are there 3 pictures one of which
>> is a standard halogen, the other a Cool Blue, and the last a SilverStar
>> which shows the standard halogen as a yellow colored light, the Cool Blue
>> a blue color and dimmer, and the SilverStar brighter and whiter?
>>
>> BTJustice

>
> Because the SiverStar box has copy that's designed to make you want to buy
> SilverStars. Geez, I thought that was so basic it wasn't worth comment.
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel



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Old 04-22-2005, 12:02   #49 (permalink)
y_p_w
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Posts: n/a
Re: NIGHTHAWK vs. SILVERSTAR

Buford T. Justice wrote:
> That would be false advertising and a lawsuit. Since there is
> no lawsuit or people filing one I am led to believe their
> advertising is truthful.


That's funny. Basically what was cited is a research study that was
likely paid for by Sylvania saying that their so-called "whiter"
light produces better vision. As far as I can tell, Sylvania would
never put out a product that was inherently unsafe to use, but their
performace claims for Silverstar seem to be total hogwash. Not only
that, but the manufacturer's rated life for the 9007 Silverstar (9007
ST) is 150 hours vs 375 for the XtraVision (9007 XV), 500 for the
standard, and 1500 for the long-life version (9007 LL).

<http://www.sylvaniaautocatalog.com/sylvania/ProductBrowse_halog.asp?Batchid=46&FigNumber=137>

DS knows far more about automotive lighting than anyone else posting
to these automotive NGs. When he says that the blue filter on the
Silverstars reduces the amount of usable light, I believe him. I've
purchased stuff from him before, and if he could make a buck selling
Sylvania Silverstar with a good concience that he's selling a superior
product, I'm sure he would. What I have bought from him were the
**Osram** Silverstar (H1 bulbs) which don't have a blue filtration
coating, last longer, cost less, and produce more usuable light than
the Sylvania Silverstar.

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