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Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

3K views 27 replies 0 participants last post by  Spike 
G
#1 ·
So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!

First off to make a long story short, the kid on Pinks WON the race with
his big block 1st gen camaro, and gave back an 85 Monet Carlo to a real
smooth talker, running a big block, NO2 and what we NY'ers call a good
line of bullshit. I didn't the Camaro kid would win. He was a true
sportsman.

The OTHER interesting thing; boring science, yet CRUCIAL for the running
of *my* Camaro and Mustang is the continuity of cheap and availible
petroleum. In particular gasoline.

There is a theory that petroleum "fossil fuels" are NOT biological in
origin. In other words, the gas in my tanks ain't from dinosaurs. Of
course this doesn't sit well with many of todays petroleum
engineers/geologists (To RAMFM folks IIRC, TtT was/is a petroleum
engineer - where's he been?) :)

Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/pdf/nature04122.pdf

Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.

What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.

Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.
 
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G
#2 ·
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:36:44 -0500, Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>
>SNIP


>Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Makes sense. Always did seem that there were never enough dinos and
plants to account for that much oil. Some, sure... but all? And
geologically, carbon molecules, one of the building blocks of life and
the rest, are found throughout the universe by all accounts. Some day
they're going to discover that the oil was the lube for the tectonic
plates, and as we drained it, things started getting worse... worse
weather, badder quakes, etc..... Now where was that deep core dip
stick????? : 0 )
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#3 ·
Jimmy wrote:
> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
> <snip>
>
> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/pdf/nature04122.pdf
>
> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>
> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>
> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.


I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
carbon deposits much more plausable.

If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
"soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)
 
G
#4 ·
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Jimmy wrote:
>> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
>> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>> <snip>
>>
>> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
>> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
>> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>>
>> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/pdf/nature04122.pdf
>>
>> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>>
>> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
>> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
>> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
>> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>>
>> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.

>
>I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
>carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
>did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
>planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>carbon deposits much more plausable.
>
>If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>"soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL

But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
out of the stuff.... : 0 )
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#5 ·
Spike wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Jimmy wrote:
>>> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
>>> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>>> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>>> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
>>> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
>>> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>>>
>>> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/pdf/nature04122.pdf
>>>
>>> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>>>
>>> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
>>> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
>>> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
>>> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>>>
>>> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>>> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>>> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>>> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>>> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>>> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>>> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.

>> I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
>> carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
>> did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>
>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>
> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
> out of the stuff.... : 0 )


I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.
 
G
#6 ·
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jimmy wrote:

SNIP
>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>
>>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

>> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
>> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>>
>> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
>> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
>> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
>> out of the stuff.... : 0 )

>
>I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
>of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

Something tells me he was using near as much energy to produce the oil
as he harvested... AND he had to deal with the smell....

A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#7 ·
Spike wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Spike wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jimmy wrote:

> SNIP
>>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>>
>>>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>>>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>>>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>>>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)
>>> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
>>> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>>>
>>> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
>>> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
>>> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
>>> out of the stuff.... : 0 )

>> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
>> of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

> Something tells me he was using near as much energy to produce the oil
> as he harvested... AND he had to deal with the smell....
>
> A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
> nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....


That is probably the case with this guy. If he had really invented an
efficient method to do what he claimed someone would fund it.
Personally I think converting natural processes like ocean currents,
thermal differences in ocean depths, geothermal, tidal action,
photoelectric etc. is where we should be concentrating. There is enough
energy available from these areas to supply all our needs and then some.
I'm sure the environmentalists would scream about it though.
 
G
#8 ·
All kidding aside, there is actually a company that can do this.
Changine World Technologies has some kind of pantented contraption that
uses a technology called "Thermal Depolymerization". The hype is they
can make "anything into oil". In practice, they are trying and have
suceeded in taking turkey guts and making it into #2 crude
oil...basically diesel fuel. They *say* they can extract 85% of the
energy of a stream of turkey vicera and get some small amounts of
by-products that can also be reused/recycled. There is a Wikipedia
article on it, but Wikipedia took a bashing today in the press because
some guy ( Brian Chase) at a shipping company modified an entry stating
that John Seigenthaler Sr had participated in the assasinations of JFK &
RFK or something like that, and did it as a prank using his companys PC
to modify the article. Somebody from of all places, wikipedia-watch.org
traked down the IP address. Now Brian ain't got no job.

With that said, here's the link frokm Wikipedia regarding thermal
depolymerization (Note: I haven't modifed it at all!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Spike wrote:
>
> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
> out of the stuff.... : 0 )
> --
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#9 ·
Sorry, Michael. Should have read ALL the posts first before posting the
link about thermal depolymerization. That's what this soulds like...

It's either that or a modified flux capacitor ala Back To The Future.
Michael Johnson, PE wrote:

> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
> of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.
 
G
#10 ·
If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
up at every land fill.

Jimmy wrote:
> Sorry, Michael. Should have read ALL the posts first before posting the
> link about thermal depolymerization. That's what this soulds like...
>
> It's either that or a modified flux capacitor ala Back To The Future.
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net
>> surplus of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.
 
G
#11 ·
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:15:05 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Spike wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>>>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jimmy wrote:

>> SNIP
>>>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>>>

SNIP
>>
>> A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
>> nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....

>
>That is probably the case with this guy. If he had really invented an
>efficient method to do what he claimed someone would fund it.
>Personally I think converting natural processes like ocean currents,
>thermal differences in ocean depths, geothermal, tidal action,
>photoelectric etc. is where we should be concentrating. There is enough
>energy available from these areas to supply all our needs and then some.
> I'm sure the environmentalists would scream about it though.

In one of the Scandinavian countries they have already harvested wave
action in a big way.
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#12 ·
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:17:45 -0500, Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>All kidding aside, there is actually a company that can do this.
>Changine World Technologies has some kind of pantented contraption that
>uses a technology called "Thermal Depolymerization". The hype is they
>can make "anything into oil". In practice, they are trying and have
>suceeded in taking turkey guts and making it into #2 crude
>oil...basically diesel fuel. They *say* they can extract 85% of the
>energy of a stream of turkey vicera and get some small amounts of
>by-products that can also be reused/recycled. There is a Wikipedia
>article on it, but Wikipedia took a bashing today in the press because
>some guy ( Brian Chase) at a shipping company modified an entry stating
>that John Seigenthaler Sr had participated in the assasinations of JFK &
>RFK or something like that, and did it as a prank using his companys PC
>to modify the article. Somebody from of all places, wikipedia-watch.org
>traked down the IP address. Now Brian ain't got no job.
>
>With that said, here's the link frokm Wikipedia regarding thermal
>depolymerization (Note: I haven't modifed it at all!):
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
>

Nest someone will propose tapping into the human body's power plant
ala "The Matrix"....
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#13 ·
The turkey guts converted to energy thing I can see. That actually
works. The biggest problem there is the smell/stink.

Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.

Spike wrote:

>>

>
> Nest someone will propose tapping into the human body's power plant
> ala "The Matrix"....
> --
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#14 ·
No way, Michael! This is America! NIMBY! Not In My Back Yard.

You can't build a natural gas fired generator in NYC without some civic
group loosing sleep over it!

Here's a discussion from a biodiesel newsgroup regarding the TDP plant.

http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=829

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
> up at every land fill.
>
 
G
#15 ·
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:22:21 -0500, Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>The turkey guts converted to energy thing I can see. That actually
>works. The biggest problem there is the smell/stink.
>
>Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.


As for turkeys.... my great grandparents, who settled here in 1840
under a Spanish Land Grant, raised turkeys to feed the gold miners in
this region. My grandparents were raising turkeys during WW2 for the
national crisis then in effect. When I was young, they still had a few
dozen which they raised for income. As part of my "chores" they had
to be fed and watered until the got big enough to kill. Domestic
turkeys, unlike chickens, are not smart enough to fend for themselves.
So, even turkey gut oil isn't made for free.

And isn't "Star Wars" set in the future "in a galaxy far, far away"?
Perhaps, you judge too quickly what technology might exist. Perhaps,
there are technologies in use in galaxies today which are far older
than our own, and may have advanced far beyond our present
understanding of the natural forces.
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#16 ·
Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com> wrote:


> Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
> and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
> guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
> miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
> convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>


O, ye of little foresight...

About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
extending out 22,000 miles.

Ridiculous.. impossible!

Well... GUESS WHAT!

20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
running through bedrock tunnels...

I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.


So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.


--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
 
G
#17 ·
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:23:29 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>> and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>> guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>> miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>> convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>>

>
>O, ye of little foresight...
>
>About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
>elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
>extending out 22,000 miles.
>
>Ridiculous.. impossible!
>
>Well... GUESS WHAT!
>
>20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
>running through bedrock tunnels...
>
>I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
>Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.
>
>
>So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
>you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.

Leonardo!!!!! as well as the helicopter, tank, submarine, and a number
of other ideas whose time had not yet come... sorta like the Avanti
for Studebaker... The first pony car... along with the Hawk and
Commander. Just bad timing....

And my son was blown away when he read Jules Verne writing about
atomic submarines in the 18oos, along with moon travel, undersea
harvesting and mining, airships....

Even the Greeks beat modern science to such things as computing,
vending machines, and slot machines... as well as automatronics.

Don't schools teach anything anymore?
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#18 ·
The idea of getting energy from waste, that I don't find ridiculous. An
elevator to space is easy to imagine. The energy required though would
be tremendous, however it would simply be lifting energy...no escape
velocity required.

But the idea that gravity doesn't exist throughout the universe? I find
that extremely difficult to believe! You either need a TREMENDOUS
amount of mass, or, as you said a mass in rotation. A hollywood ship
floating through space (alwasy "upright" despite there being no up or
down in space) like an earthship on the ocean is pure bunk. 2 hollywood
Like frictionless motion. Imagine an engine tranny combo with no
friction throughout the drivetrain except clutch and clutch packs in the
diff for the tires contact patch. THAT I can imagine.

Only 2 hollywood directors I can think got the gravity thing right in
space. Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Oddesey and Ron Howard's Appolo 13.

Jules Vern had tremendous insight, but lacked both an understanding of
Newtonian Physics (his super dee duper powerplant pushing the Natilus,
for example) and had no CLUE about Quantum physics.

The reason most hollywood producers convienely have gravity in space is
simple. Cost of production. Not insight into future gravitational
technology.

Backyard Mechanic wrote:
> Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>>and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>>guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>>miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>>convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>>

>
>
> O, ye of little foresight...
>
> About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
> elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
> extending out 22,000 miles.
>
> Ridiculous.. impossible!
>
> Well... GUESS WHAT!
>
> 20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
> running through bedrock tunnels...
>
> I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
> Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.
>
>
> So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
> you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.
>
>

-
 
G
#19 ·
Spike wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:22:21 -0500, Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> So, even turkey gut oil isn't made for free.


No, the turkey gut oil isn't made for free, but the point of the thermal
depolymerization technology is you were going to throw away the guts
anyway as waste. It could take off in Europe becasue of Bovine
spongiform encephelitis <sp?> aka Mad Cow disease where the Euros are no
longer gonna throw meat byproducts into animal feed. They can throw them
lil' infected doggies into the TDP hopper and fuel up their Mini's and
Fiats.

>
> And isn't "Star Wars" set in the future "in a galaxy far, far away"?
> Perhaps, you judge too quickly what technology might exist. Perhaps,
> there are technologies in use in galaxies today which are far older
> than our own, and may have advanced far beyond our present
> understanding of the natural forces.
> --


Actually Star ware was "A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away".
Not the future...just joking...but it was all grom George Lucas's head.
And great entertainment. But George Lucas was telling a story, not
conveying new laws of gravitational physics beyond our understanding.
Like with drag racing, you run what you brung...all I have is my limited
knowledge of physics today. Which is a hell of alot more than folks had
125 years ago. And both quantum and newtonian mechanics RELY on gravity
and the Gravitational constant G to make some really accurate
calculations for space shots/trips/travels. So I am very skeptical that
gravity doesn't exist in other galaxies and that it can be ignored!

On top of tha, I am very skeptical advanced life exists beyond the earth
at this point in time. Especially anything like us. 2 eyed veterbrae
hominoids with 2 arms and legs. Again - images like that cut hollywood
production costs. And we may not be alone - but when we find out who our
neighbors are, they may not like us nor we them!
 
G
#20 ·
Michael...from the website for changing world.

Looks like a slick sales brochure, so be skeptical, but they do have a
plant in Carthage Missouri. Isn't Don Manning in MO? Or was? Anyway,
probably not close. But this faq gives the output of the plant.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/information_center/faq.asp#7

From the other link I posted to you, you have to wade through like 41
pages of mostly back and forth but there is some interesting stuff that
the CEO met with Dubbya regarding trying to get tax credits like the
biodiesel folks get using corn and soy. And an entire discusion about
how much energy it takes simply to run the plant, efficiency etc..

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
> up at every land fill.
>
 
G
#21 ·
I thought Don was from Michigan but I could be wrong. I bought a Kenne
Bell blower from him years ago.

I don't think the biodeisel route will take off because it consumes a
valuable resource in the process - that being food. Plus I read where
we can't produce enough bio matter to make much of a dent in our fuel use.

I think electric powered cars with 300+ mile range and quick recharge
capability is the future. This approach solves too many problems to
ignore. Plus electricity can be produced from a variety of processes
and can be done with very little environmental impact.

Jimmy wrote:
> Michael...from the website for changing world.
>
> Looks like a slick sales brochure, so be skeptical, but they do have a
> plant in Carthage Missouri. Isn't Don Manning in MO? Or was? Anyway,
> probably not close. But this faq gives the output of the plant.
>
> http://www.changingworldtech.com/information_center/faq.asp#7
>
> From the other link I posted to you, you have to wade through like 41
> pages of mostly back and forth but there is some interesting stuff that
> the CEO met with Dubbya regarding trying to get tax credits like the
> biodiesel folks get using corn and soy. And an entire discusion about
> how much energy it takes simply to run the plant, efficiency etc..
>
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>> If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers
>> springing up at every land fill.
>>
 
G
#22 ·
Yeah yeah yeah...and the Egyptians had the first battery, the greeks had
a steam engine and so what? What did they do with them? Nothing. They
were toys. Even the romans had fairly sophisticated plumbing, all
gravity fed. They could at least get a fresh drink of water and take a
dump with their tech... It wasn't until the age of reason and Gutenberg
then DaVinci, Columbus, Galileio, later Isaac Newton and others slowly
set in motion science again, with books and libraries, universities etc
AND....Money! AND, key to the west coming out on top was information
transfer using printed books. No more scrolls! Helped create
proto-modern economies...and money did make the world go round. Or at
least humans around the world.

Spike wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:23:29 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
>
> Even the Greeks beat modern science to such things as computing,
> vending machines, and slot machines... as well as automatronics.
>
> Don't schools teach anything anymore?
> --
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
G
#23 ·
Spike wrote something that made me remember a sweet ride:
>> So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
>> you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.

> Leonardo!!!!! as well as the helicopter, tank, submarine, and a number
> of other ideas whose time had not yet come... sorta like the Avanti
> for Studebaker... The first pony car... along with the Hawk and
> Commander. Just bad timing....


You mentioned the Hawk and it reminded me of a Golden Hawk I saw sitting
in a guys garage many years ago. I thought it was one of the most
beautiful cars I had ever seen. It looked almost identical to the one
show on this web page:

http://www.pjsautoworld.com/1950cars/1958studebakergoldenhawk.html

Check out that McCollough blower under the hood. :)
 
G
#24 ·
Americans already have too much food. We have an oversupply of food as
the media keeps pounding into our heads...60 percent or something like
that are overweight or obese...so I think bio diesel has tremendous
potential. Especially seen in light of national security issues where WE
MUST stop buying middle easter oil. This should have been mandated on
9/12/2001, but what do I know.

You may be right though about electric if they can get that range
without having to weigh what a bicycle weighs. Electrical engines also
have a tremendous range....1 gear and ALL torque. There is even an
electric car drag racing group, kind of like the NHRA.

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> I thought Don was from Michigan but I could be wrong. I bought a Kenne
> Bell blower from him years ago.
>
> I don't think the biodeisel route will take off because it consumes a
> valuable resource in the process - that being food. Plus I read where
> we can't produce enough bio matter to make much of a dent in our fuel use.
>
> I think electric powered cars with 300+ mile range and quick recharge
> capability is the future. This approach solves too many problems to
> ignore. Plus electricity can be produced from a variety of processes
> and can be done with very little environmental impact.
>
 
G
#25 ·
Jimmy wrote:
> Americans already have too much food. We have an oversupply of food as
> the media keeps pounding into our heads...60 percent or something like
> that are overweight or obese...so I think bio diesel has tremendous
> potential. Especially seen in light of national security issues where WE
> MUST stop buying middle easter oil. This should have been mandated on
> 9/12/2001, but what do I know.


My problems with biodeisel is it consumes a food which could be put to
better use than being burned in our cars like feeding starving people.
Also, it will result in extensive tilling of soil and use of man-made
fertilizers, neither of which is good for this country's long term
health and well being. We also can't produce enough bio-matter to solve
our energy problems and just the process of planting, growing,
transporting, storing and converting to biodeisel that much organic
matter consumes a huge amount of energy.

> You may be right though about electric if they can get that range
> without having to weigh what a bicycle weighs. Electrical engines also
> have a tremendous range....1 gear and ALL torque. There is even an
> electric car drag racing group, kind of like the NHRA.


I believe technology advances will solve the battery problem in the next
10-15 years. Aside from dealing with dead used batteries the use of
this type of technology is very environmentally friendly. Plus, it will
allow the hotrod hobby to remain alive and well.

> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>> I thought Don was from Michigan but I could be wrong. I bought a
>> Kenne Bell blower from him years ago.
>>
>> I don't think the biodeisel route will take off because it consumes a
>> valuable resource in the process - that being food. Plus I read where
>> we can't produce enough bio matter to make much of a dent in our fuel
>> use.
>>
>> I think electric powered cars with 300+ mile range and quick recharge
>> capability is the future. This approach solves too many problems to
>> ignore. Plus electricity can be produced from a variety of processes
>> and can be done with very little environmental impact.
>>
 
G
#26 ·
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:07:19 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Spike wrote something that made me remember a sweet ride:
>>> So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
>>> you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.

>> Leonardo!!!!! as well as the helicopter, tank, submarine, and a number
>> of other ideas whose time had not yet come... sorta like the Avanti
>> for Studebaker... The first pony car... along with the Hawk and
>> Commander. Just bad timing....

>
>You mentioned the Hawk and it reminded me of a Golden Hawk I saw sitting
>in a guys garage many years ago. I thought it was one of the most
>beautiful cars I had ever seen. It looked almost identical to the one
>show on this web page:
>
>http://www.pjsautoworld.com/1950cars/1958studebakergoldenhawk.html
>
>Check out that McCollough blower under the hood. :)

That be the one.... Except the one in memory was black... with a
pretty big Caddy engine under the hood.
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/Engine_rebuild_006.jpg
 
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