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Old 12-11-2005, 21:01   #1 (permalink)
Jimmy
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Posts: n/a
Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!

First off to make a long story short, the kid on Pinks WON the race with
his big block 1st gen camaro, and gave back an 85 Monet Carlo to a real
smooth talker, running a big block, NO2 and what we NY'ers call a good
line of bullshit. I didn't the Camaro kid would win. He was a true
sportsman.

The OTHER interesting thing; boring science, yet CRUCIAL for the running
of *my* Camaro and Mustang is the continuity of cheap and availible
petroleum. In particular gasoline.

There is a theory that petroleum "fossil fuels" are NOT biological in
origin. In other words, the gas in my tanks ain't from dinosaurs. Of
course this doesn't sit well with many of todays petroleum
engineers/geologists (To RAMFM folks IIRC, TtT was/is a petroleum
engineer - where's he been?) :-)

Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature04122.pdf

Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.

What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.

Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.








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Old 12-12-2005, 00:01   #2 (permalink)
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:36:44 -0500, Jimmy <jimsfastls1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>
>SNIP


>Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Makes sense. Always did seem that there were never enough dinos and
plants to account for that much oil. Some, sure... but all? And
geologically, carbon molecules, one of the building blocks of life and
the rest, are found throughout the universe by all accounts. Some day
they're going to discover that the oil was the lube for the tectonic
plates, and as we drained it, things started getting worse... worse
weather, badder quakes, etc..... Now where was that deep core dip
stick????? : 0 )
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:01   #3 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

Jimmy wrote:
> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
> <snip>
>
> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature04122.pdf
>
> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>
> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>
> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.


I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
carbon deposits much more plausable.

If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
"soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:01   #4 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Jimmy wrote:
>> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
>> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>> <snip>
>>
>> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
>> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
>> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>>
>> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature04122.pdf
>>
>> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>>
>> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
>> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
>> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
>> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>>
>> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.

>
>I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
>carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
>did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
>planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>carbon deposits much more plausable.
>
>If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>"soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL

But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
out of the stuff.... : 0 )
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 12-12-2005, 17:02   #5 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

Spike wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Jimmy wrote:
>>> So I'm sitting here watching Pinks on the Speed channel, checking out an
>>> e-mail I got with a link from WorldNet Daily (many times know as
>>> Wingnut Daily) about abiotic oil. Oil not from ancient plants and
>>> dinosaurs. More like like ancient synthetic oil!
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Most scientsits say that the origin of methane is mostly biological.
>>> This months "Nature" says the methane that SATURATES Saturns moon Titan
>>> is NON-BIOLOGIAL. Or *ABIOTIC*. Again to keep the post short, you can read:
>>>
>>> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature04122.pdf
>>>
>>> Page 4 (of 6) paragraphs 3 & 4.
>>>
>>> What does this mean for petroleum? The supposed nutjobs saying todays
>>> gasoline, diesel, petroleum derivatives MAY NOT have biological origins
>>> may be right and the accepted theory that all this oil, gas methane etc
>>> came from rotting plants, dinosaurs, Old Yeller and Aunt Matilda.
>>>
>>> Come to think of it, with all the driving, fixing, and changing oil I
>>> do, that's gotta be a HELL of alot of dinosaurs simply to get my cars
>>> rolling around. Perhaps todays petroleum engineers will revise their
>>> theories? Perhaps abiotic petroleum is wrong. But I think petroleum and
>>> its derivatives (plastics, asphalt, manufacuting) will be around a HELL
>>> of alot longer than the "Peak Oil" folks think. Perhaps the earths gas
>>> tank ain't on "E" by a long shot.

>> I never really bought into the idea that oil is just old festering dino
>> carcasses. Think of how many it would take to make up one oil field and
>> did they all decide to drop over dead at very specific spots around the
>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>
>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>
> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
> out of the stuff.... : 0 )


I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.
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Old 12-12-2005, 18:01   #6 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
<cds@erols.com> wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jimmy wrote:

SNIP
>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>
>>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)

>> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
>> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>>
>> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
>> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
>> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
>> out of the stuff.... : 0 )

>
>I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
>of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

Something tells me he was using near as much energy to produce the oil
as he harvested... AND he had to deal with the smell....

A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 12-12-2005, 19:01   #7 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

Spike wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Spike wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>>> <cds@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jimmy wrote:

> SNIP
>>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>>
>>>> If dinos are responsible for oil deposits then we need to take all the
>>>> road kill, fast food grease, human bodies etc. and bury it now so that
>>>> we can make crude oil a renewable resource just like trees. Instead of
>>>> "soylent green" being edible maybe it will be combustible. :)
>>> Oh, I vote for edible.... Mmmmmmm.... with Tabasco sauce and catsup,
>>> dissolved in hot water.... : 0 ) LOL
>>>
>>> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
>>> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
>>> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
>>> out of the stuff.... : 0 )

>> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
>> of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

> Something tells me he was using near as much energy to produce the oil
> as he harvested... AND he had to deal with the smell....
>
> A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
> nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....


That is probably the case with this guy. If he had really invented an
efficient method to do what he claimed someone would fund it.
Personally I think converting natural processes like ocean currents,
thermal differences in ocean depths, geothermal, tidal action,
photoelectric etc. is where we should be concentrating. There is enough
energy available from these areas to supply all our needs and then some.
I'm sure the environmentalists would scream about it though.
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Old 12-12-2005, 19:01   #8 (permalink)
Jimmy
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Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

All kidding aside, there is actually a company that can do this.
Changine World Technologies has some kind of pantented contraption that
uses a technology called "Thermal Depolymerization". The hype is they
can make "anything into oil". In practice, they are trying and have
suceeded in taking turkey guts and making it into #2 crude
oil...basically diesel fuel. They *say* they can extract 85% of the
energy of a stream of turkey vicera and get some small amounts of
by-products that can also be reused/recycled. There is a Wikipedia
article on it, but Wikipedia took a bashing today in the press because
some guy ( Brian Chase) at a shipping company modified an entry stating
that John Seigenthaler Sr had participated in the assasinations of JFK &
RFK or something like that, and did it as a prank using his companys PC
to modify the article. Somebody from of all places, wikipedia-watch.org
traked down the IP address. Now Brian ain't got no job.

With that said, here's the link frokm Wikipedia regarding thermal
depolymerization (Note: I haven't modifed it at all!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Spike wrote:
>
> But seriously.... why bury the road kill and wait... essentially it's
> a time, pressure, heat kind of thing.... like man made gems, just dump
> 'em in a hopper, fire up the kiln, and squeeze the living daylights
> out of the stuff.... : 0 )
> --
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

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Old 12-12-2005, 19:01   #9 (permalink)
Jimmy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

Sorry, Michael. Should have read ALL the posts first before posting the
link about thermal depolymerization. That's what this soulds like...

It's either that or a modified flux capacitor ala Back To The Future.
Michael Johnson, PE wrote:

> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net surplus
> of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

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Old 12-12-2005, 19:01   #10 (permalink)
Michael Johnson, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
up at every land fill.

Jimmy wrote:
> Sorry, Michael. Should have read ALL the posts first before posting the
> link about thermal depolymerization. That's what this soulds like...
>
> It's either that or a modified flux capacitor ala Back To The Future.
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>> I watched a TV show awhile back where a guy had a contraption that
>> processed garbage/waste into a form of crude oil. He could take all
>> types of waste from diapers, tires, organics etc. and through a
>> pressurized cooking process generate oil. He said it was a net
>> surplus of energy but he wasn't too open about the details.

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