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Old 06-28-2005, 08:01   #1 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Problem starting car - No spark

Hi folks,

I have been beating on this one for over 2 months now and still no
luck. I have a 95 GT Conv 5.0 all stock. The problem started one day
randomly where the car was cranking, but it didn't start for 5-10
minutes. I didn't take it quite seriously. This is a long message, but
its the only way I can describe the problem.

This happened about a couple more times during a span of 2 weeks.
Finally, one day it just wouldn't start. I tried it for 2 hours until
my battery gave up. At the same time I made sure some really basic
stuff was fine, such as having enough gas. I tried to jump start, but
it still wouldn't start (This is when the battery was still good). So,
I was stuck 200 miles from home and had to take the next day off. After
I towed it to the shop, the mechanic said that the distributor cap was
bad and the battery was dead. Like I explained to him that it wasn't
the problem. But, he still fixed that stuff and cleaned up my battery.
Apparently it started after he did that.

So I thought, he knows better. Drove back home and it wouldn't start
the next day while I was heading to work. This time a buddy of mine
took a look at it. He said I had a battery grounding problem. He
cleaned up the terminals further and the car started. Hence, that was
the problem. I was excited.

Later, I went on vacation for a month and when I came back the car
started just fine. However, a day later it died on my way to work. This
time I had to get it towed. The guy said that there was no problem
since the car started the moment it got there. But I told him that I
have experienced this before so please take a look around. At that
point he said the problem probably lied around the coil. So we replaced
the Ignition Coil, spark plug wires, cleaned up the distributor, and
the air pump (it was noisy). At this point he mentioned that my fuel
pressure wasn't right. I knew I needed a new fuel pump at some point
due to the 122k mileage on the car. That was a little loud too.
However, I headed home.

The next day at lunch time the car wouldn't start again. I had the same
guy tow it back. This time he tried to reproduce the problem for 5 days
and couldn't find anything since the car would start just fine. So he
concluded that I needed a new fuel pump. Alas! I had my new fuel pump
installed. I thought this is a good thing. At the very least I got new
parts and the car is not getting any worse.

To my surprise it died again. The same friend who looked at it the
previously came to the rescue. One night while it wasn't starting he
identified that I had no spark. All this while the engine would crank
just fine, but the car wouldn't start. He played with the cable coming
out of the engine going into the ignition coil on the lower left and
cleaned the distributor cap, etc. It started fine.

When it died again, I called him and was pissed off. I waited until
evening and tried to start the car. It started and I headed straight to
the mechanic. At this point we tested the ignition module. It seemed
fine. However, the mechanic was embarrassed and gave me a spark tester
to see if I had spark whenever the problem recurred. And if it didn't,
we would try a new ignition module. Initially the car would not start.
Now, sometimes it wont start as well as die while in motion.

So, yesterday it died on the way again. I tested for spark and voila!
there was no spark. The car started in about 15 minutes. I headed to
the mechanic and he bought me a new ignition module. I thought, if this
is really the problem I will pay for it. But, he insisted that I try it
out. Now, this mechanic is really good and takes good pride in finding
the problem. However, my car has been driving him nuts as it starts
whenever he takes a look at it.

Finally, this morning it died on the way and I found that there was no
spark. I called the same tow truck. But, the car started in about 20
minutes. I am not sure if it was because I played with the cables going
into the coil and the distributor cap and rotor.

At this point, I have no clue. Someone suggested I should check the
grounding all over. The mechanic wants to keep it longer.

All I know at this point is that there is no spark going into the
distributor when the car isn't starting or stops while in motion.

So far I have the following new components:
Air Pump
Fuel Pump
Water Pump
Distributor cap and rotor
Spark plug wires
Ignition Coil
Ignition Module

The battery has tested fine.

Can any of you pros out there help me out here ? I am so frustrated.
This is my primary car and I have just moved into this area 200 miles
away from where I used to be. I can't afford to buy another car and at
the same time keep spending on this one. Please advise!

Thanks,
Nik.

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Old 06-28-2005, 12:01   #2 (permalink)
Mike R
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

In article <1119968001.298451.25560@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "The
Outlander" <Shardool.Karnik@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I have been beating on this one for over 2 months now and still no
> luck. I have a 95 GT Conv 5.0 all stock. The problem started one day
> randomly where the car was cranking, but it didn't start for 5-10
> minutes. I didn't take it quite seriously. This is a long message, but
> its the only way I can describe the problem.
>
> This happened about a couple more times during a span of 2 weeks.
> Finally, one day it just wouldn't start. I tried it for 2 hours until
> my battery gave up. At the same time I made sure some really basic
> stuff was fine, such as having enough gas. I tried to jump start, but
> it still wouldn't start (This is when the battery was still good). So,
> I was stuck 200 miles from home and had to take the next day off. After
> I towed it to the shop, the mechanic said that the distributor cap was
> bad and the battery was dead. Like I explained to him that it wasn't
> the problem. But, he still fixed that stuff and cleaned up my battery.
> Apparently it started after he did that.
>
> So I thought, he knows better. Drove back home and it wouldn't start
> the next day while I was heading to work. This time a buddy of mine
> took a look at it. He said I had a battery grounding problem. He
> cleaned up the terminals further and the car started. Hence, that was
> the problem. I was excited.
>
> Later, I went on vacation for a month and when I came back the car
> started just fine. However, a day later it died on my way to work. This
> time I had to get it towed. The guy said that there was no problem
> since the car started the moment it got there. But I told him that I
> have experienced this before so please take a look around. At that
> point he said the problem probably lied around the coil. So we replaced
> the Ignition Coil, spark plug wires, cleaned up the distributor, and
> the air pump (it was noisy). At this point he mentioned that my fuel
> pressure wasn't right. I knew I needed a new fuel pump at some point
> due to the 122k mileage on the car. That was a little loud too.
> However, I headed home.
>
> The next day at lunch time the car wouldn't start again. I had the same
> guy tow it back. This time he tried to reproduce the problem for 5 days
> and couldn't find anything since the car would start just fine. So he
> concluded that I needed a new fuel pump. Alas! I had my new fuel pump
> installed. I thought this is a good thing. At the very least I got new
> parts and the car is not getting any worse.
>
> To my surprise it died again. The same friend who looked at it the
> previously came to the rescue. One night while it wasn't starting he
> identified that I had no spark. All this while the engine would crank
> just fine, but the car wouldn't start. He played with the cable coming
> out of the engine going into the ignition coil on the lower left and
> cleaned the distributor cap, etc. It started fine.
>
> When it died again, I called him and was pissed off. I waited until
> evening and tried to start the car. It started and I headed straight to
> the mechanic. At this point we tested the ignition module. It seemed
> fine. However, the mechanic was embarrassed and gave me a spark tester
> to see if I had spark whenever the problem recurred. And if it didn't,
> we would try a new ignition module. Initially the car would not start.
> Now, sometimes it wont start as well as die while in motion.
>
> So, yesterday it died on the way again. I tested for spark and voila!
> there was no spark. The car started in about 15 minutes. I headed to
> the mechanic and he bought me a new ignition module. I thought, if this
> is really the problem I will pay for it. But, he insisted that I try it
> out. Now, this mechanic is really good and takes good pride in finding
> the problem. However, my car has been driving him nuts as it starts
> whenever he takes a look at it.
>
> Finally, this morning it died on the way and I found that there was no
> spark. I called the same tow truck. But, the car started in about 20
> minutes. I am not sure if it was because I played with the cables going
> into the coil and the distributor cap and rotor.
>
> At this point, I have no clue. Someone suggested I should check the
> grounding all over. The mechanic wants to keep it longer.
>
> All I know at this point is that there is no spark going into the
> distributor when the car isn't starting or stops while in motion.
>
> So far I have the following new components:
> Air Pump
> Fuel Pump
> Water Pump
> Distributor cap and rotor
> Spark plug wires
> Ignition Coil
> Ignition Module
>
> The battery has tested fine.
>
> Can any of you pros out there help me out here ? I am so frustrated.
> This is my primary car and I have just moved into this area 200 miles
> away from where I used to be. I can't afford to buy another car and at
> the same time keep spending on this one. Please advise!
>
> Thanks,
> Nik.


I would suspect the Hall P/U sensor inside the distributor is thermally
breaking down, causing a lack of PIP signal to the ECU. This would require
replacement of the distributor assembly. You could get a machine shop to
press fit on another sensor, but it's probably more common to replace the
whole assembly and be done with it.

In retrospect (if this is the case), you may have been better off going to
a Ford dealership for proper diagnosis the first time, saving you grief
and money. Nothing etched in stone here, just a thought...

Good luck and HTH

--
Mike
93 Cobra
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Old 06-28-2005, 13:01   #3 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

Thanks for your suggestion .... The ford guys have ripped me off over
and over again ... they are at a 5 min walk from my house ... but, due
to their unethical practices I haven't gone to them ... maybe I should
try them next

there is no pattern to the car breaking down .. .however, today I
looked at the tach and noticed that it wasn't moving at all while
trying to start the car ...

any thoughts about replacing the ignition with a msd ignition system ?

- Nik

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Old 06-28-2005, 17:01   #4 (permalink)
Lee A.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

On 28 Jun 2005 07:13:21 -0700, "The Outlander"
<Shardool.Karnik@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Man I'm in the same boat, I'm having the same issues with my
95GT. I've replaced the fuel filter, fuel pressure reg, ignition
control mod. And just yesterday it completely died..... and would not
start.... SO, I had to swallow my pride and have the ole' girl towed
to the dealership. I believe the other guy is correct, I suspect I'll
get a call tomorrow telling me I need a new stator/pickup in the
distributor cap and probably that Hal's effect device...(if they are
not the same thing, I'm not real sure). When I get word as to what
they find I'll post it...

Good luck and wish me luck.
>Hi folks,
>
>I have been beating on this one for over 2 months now and still no
>luck. I have a 95 GT Conv 5.0 all stock. The problem started one day
>randomly where the car was cranking, but it didn't start for 5-10
>minutes. I didn't take it quite seriously. This is a long message, but
>its the only way I can describe the problem.
>
>This happened about a couple more times during a span of 2 weeks.
>Finally, one day it just wouldn't start. I tried it for 2 hours until
>my battery gave up. At the same time I made sure some really basic
>stuff was fine, such as having enough gas. I tried to jump start, but
>it still wouldn't start (This is when the battery was still good). So,
>I was stuck 200 miles from home and had to take the next day off. After
>I towed it to the shop, the mechanic said that the distributor cap was
>bad and the battery was dead. Like I explained to him that it wasn't
>the problem. But, he still fixed that stuff and cleaned up my battery.
>Apparently it started after he did that.
>
>So I thought, he knows better. Drove back home and it wouldn't start
>the next day while I was heading to work. This time a buddy of mine
>took a look at it. He said I had a battery grounding problem. He
>cleaned up the terminals further and the car started. Hence, that was
>the problem. I was excited.
>
>Later, I went on vacation for a month and when I came back the car
>started just fine. However, a day later it died on my way to work. This
>time I had to get it towed. The guy said that there was no problem
>since the car started the moment it got there. But I told him that I
>have experienced this before so please take a look around. At that
>point he said the problem probably lied around the coil. So we replaced
>the Ignition Coil, spark plug wires, cleaned up the distributor, and
>the air pump (it was noisy). At this point he mentioned that my fuel
>pressure wasn't right. I knew I needed a new fuel pump at some point
>due to the 122k mileage on the car. That was a little loud too.
>However, I headed home.
>
>The next day at lunch time the car wouldn't start again. I had the same
>guy tow it back. This time he tried to reproduce the problem for 5 days
>and couldn't find anything since the car would start just fine. So he
>concluded that I needed a new fuel pump. Alas! I had my new fuel pump
>installed. I thought this is a good thing. At the very least I got new
>parts and the car is not getting any worse.
>
>To my surprise it died again. The same friend who looked at it the
>previously came to the rescue. One night while it wasn't starting he
>identified that I had no spark. All this while the engine would crank
>just fine, but the car wouldn't start. He played with the cable coming
>out of the engine going into the ignition coil on the lower left and
>cleaned the distributor cap, etc. It started fine.
>
>When it died again, I called him and was pissed off. I waited until
>evening and tried to start the car. It started and I headed straight to
>the mechanic. At this point we tested the ignition module. It seemed
>fine. However, the mechanic was embarrassed and gave me a spark tester
>to see if I had spark whenever the problem recurred. And if it didn't,
>we would try a new ignition module. Initially the car would not start.
>Now, sometimes it wont start as well as die while in motion.
>
>So, yesterday it died on the way again. I tested for spark and voila!
>there was no spark. The car started in about 15 minutes. I headed to
>the mechanic and he bought me a new ignition module. I thought, if this
>is really the problem I will pay for it. But, he insisted that I try it
>out. Now, this mechanic is really good and takes good pride in finding
>the problem. However, my car has been driving him nuts as it starts
>whenever he takes a look at it.
>
>Finally, this morning it died on the way and I found that there was no
>spark. I called the same tow truck. But, the car started in about 20
>minutes. I am not sure if it was because I played with the cables going
>into the coil and the distributor cap and rotor.
>
>At this point, I have no clue. Someone suggested I should check the
>grounding all over. The mechanic wants to keep it longer.
>
>All I know at this point is that there is no spark going into the
>distributor when the car isn't starting or stops while in motion.
>
>So far I have the following new components:
>Air Pump
>Fuel Pump
>Water Pump
>Distributor cap and rotor
>Spark plug wires
>Ignition Coil
>Ignition Module
>
>The battery has tested fine.
>
>Can any of you pros out there help me out here ? I am so frustrated.
>This is my primary car and I have just moved into this area 200 miles
>away from where I used to be. I can't afford to buy another car and at
>the same time keep spending on this one. Please advise!
>
>Thanks,
>Nik.


  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005, 20:01   #5 (permalink)
SVTKate
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

I had something similar happen on my car last year after not driving it for
a couple of months.

First we replaced the battery, then the starter then had it towed piggyback
to an SVT dealer 85 miles out.

Turned out that the wiring in the column for the PATS system was fubar.

It evidently has a TSB on it, the wires were too short and prone to
breaking.

Anyway, just for whatever it was worth.

Kate
98 Cobra Drop Top



"Lee A." <TheNotoriousferret@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5rk3c1pjp0qtfppeiftg64djmcfjpmgrq2@4ax.com...
: On 28 Jun 2005 07:13:21 -0700, "The Outlander"
: <Shardool.Karnik@gmail.com> wrote:
: Hi,
: Man I'm in the same boat, I'm having the same issues with my
: 95GT. I've replaced the fuel filter, fuel pressure reg, ignition
: control mod. And just yesterday it completely died..... and would not
: start.... SO, I had to swallow my pride and have the ole' girl towed
: to the dealership. I believe the other guy is correct, I suspect I'll
: get a call tomorrow telling me I need a new stator/pickup in the
: distributor cap and probably that Hal's effect device...(if they are
: not the same thing, I'm not real sure). When I get word as to what
: they find I'll post it...
:
: Good luck and wish me luck.
: >Hi folks,
: >
: >I have been beating on this one for over 2 months now and still no
: >luck. I have a 95 GT Conv 5.0 all stock. The problem started one day
: >randomly where the car was cranking, but it didn't start for 5-10
: >minutes. I didn't take it quite seriously. This is a long message, but
: >its the only way I can describe the problem.
: >
: >This happened about a couple more times during a span of 2 weeks.
: >Finally, one day it just wouldn't start. I tried it for 2 hours until
: >my battery gave up. At the same time I made sure some really basic
: >stuff was fine, such as having enough gas. I tried to jump start, but
: >it still wouldn't start (This is when the battery was still good). So,
: >I was stuck 200 miles from home and had to take the next day off. After
: >I towed it to the shop, the mechanic said that the distributor cap was
: >bad and the battery was dead. Like I explained to him that it wasn't
: >the problem. But, he still fixed that stuff and cleaned up my battery.
: >Apparently it started after he did that.
: >
: >So I thought, he knows better. Drove back home and it wouldn't start
: >the next day while I was heading to work. This time a buddy of mine
: >took a look at it. He said I had a battery grounding problem. He
: >cleaned up the terminals further and the car started. Hence, that was
: >the problem. I was excited.
: >
: >Later, I went on vacation for a month and when I came back the car
: >started just fine. However, a day later it died on my way to work. This
: >time I had to get it towed. The guy said that there was no problem
: >since the car started the moment it got there. But I told him that I
: >have experienced this before so please take a look around. At that
: >point he said the problem probably lied around the coil. So we replaced
: >the Ignition Coil, spark plug wires, cleaned up the distributor, and
: >the air pump (it was noisy). At this point he mentioned that my fuel
: >pressure wasn't right. I knew I needed a new fuel pump at some point
: >due to the 122k mileage on the car. That was a little loud too.
: >However, I headed home.
: >
: >The next day at lunch time the car wouldn't start again. I had the same
: >guy tow it back. This time he tried to reproduce the problem for 5 days
: >and couldn't find anything since the car would start just fine. So he
: >concluded that I needed a new fuel pump. Alas! I had my new fuel pump
: >installed. I thought this is a good thing. At the very least I got new
: >parts and the car is not getting any worse.
: >
: >To my surprise it died again. The same friend who looked at it the
: >previously came to the rescue. One night while it wasn't starting he
: >identified that I had no spark. All this while the engine would crank
: >just fine, but the car wouldn't start. He played with the cable coming
: >out of the engine going into the ignition coil on the lower left and
: >cleaned the distributor cap, etc. It started fine.
: >
: >When it died again, I called him and was pissed off. I waited until
: >evening and tried to start the car. It started and I headed straight to
: >the mechanic. At this point we tested the ignition module. It seemed
: >fine. However, the mechanic was embarrassed and gave me a spark tester
: >to see if I had spark whenever the problem recurred. And if it didn't,
: >we would try a new ignition module. Initially the car would not start.
: >Now, sometimes it wont start as well as die while in motion.
: >
: >So, yesterday it died on the way again. I tested for spark and voila!
: >there was no spark. The car started in about 15 minutes. I headed to
: >the mechanic and he bought me a new ignition module. I thought, if this
: >is really the problem I will pay for it. But, he insisted that I try it
: >out. Now, this mechanic is really good and takes good pride in finding
: >the problem. However, my car has been driving him nuts as it starts
: >whenever he takes a look at it.
: >
: >Finally, this morning it died on the way and I found that there was no
: >spark. I called the same tow truck. But, the car started in about 20
: >minutes. I am not sure if it was because I played with the cables going
: >into the coil and the distributor cap and rotor.
: >
: >At this point, I have no clue. Someone suggested I should check the
: >grounding all over. The mechanic wants to keep it longer.
: >
: >All I know at this point is that there is no spark going into the
: >distributor when the car isn't starting or stops while in motion.
: >
: >So far I have the following new components:
: >Air Pump
: >Fuel Pump
: >Water Pump
: >Distributor cap and rotor
: >Spark plug wires
: >Ignition Coil
: >Ignition Module
: >
: >The battery has tested fine.
: >
: >Can any of you pros out there help me out here ? I am so frustrated.
: >This is my primary car and I have just moved into this area 200 miles
: >away from where I used to be. I can't afford to buy another car and at
: >the same time keep spending on this one. Please advise!
: >
: >Thanks,
: >Nik.
:


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Old 06-29-2005, 07:01   #6 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark


As mentioned... in this series, the problem is likely either the ignition
wiring or the TFI.

While the TFI would be the first suspect, the voltage TO the coil is the
second.

If the tach needle pops a little when you turn the ign on, that means the
coil has 12v to it

Get a cheap 12 volt test lamp, wire it to coil positive and ground.

The tech should have also suggested a "noid" to troubleshoot.

If the tach isnt moving, on cranking, but the noid shows regular injector
firing, you have pip, and if the lite shows 12volts at coil.. then you
still have a bad coil or wiring from coil to TFI. Also try with spout plug
out.
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:01   #7 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

Good luck Lee !
I feel your pain .... this problem is so frustrating .... I am gonna
have the grounding checked and the Stator as well as the voltage to the
coil ....

please post any info you have ... thx...

- Nik

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Old 06-29-2005, 08:01   #8 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

Wow .. I found something interesting about the TFI module ... could I
be affected by the same ???

http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/tfi.html ....

I did replace my ignition module though ....

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Old 06-29-2005, 09:01   #9 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

It died yesterday afternoon again and I was in a very bad spot with
construction going on and a single lane and stuff .... I am totally fed
up now and if it can't be fixed this time I will have to just keep it
in the parking lot and try to work on it on weekends .... but I have my
fingers crossed for this time .... otherwise I need to start looking
for some tools and another car (could it be a mustang again? my 01 v6
never had problems apart from constant skidding in rain/snow....but I
hate the service ford provides) ...

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Old 07-01-2005, 18:02   #10 (permalink)
The Outlander
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Problem starting car - No spark

I got my car back today ... the guy said that the Distributor pickup
had gone bad .... which in turn wouldn't signal the computer to send
the spark ... I am hoping that this was the solution .... there is no
way to confirm because the car always starts at the shop .... its after
a couple of days that I realize I just wasted time and money ....

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