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Old 12-13-2005, 18:01   #1 (permalink)
Dean
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Trans Am Mustangs

Does anybody know if the 1971 thru 73 body style was run in the circuit? I
know Ford pulled factory backing in 70,but did anyone run it independently?
Any pictures on the net?


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Old 12-13-2005, 18:01   #2 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs

"Dean" <svtfocus@atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> Does anybody know if the 1971 thru 73 body style was run in the
> circuit? I know Ford pulled factory backing in 70,but did anyone run
> it independently? Any pictures on the net?
>
>
>


http://www.historictransam.com/makes/nustang.htm

{ignore the typo}

--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:01   #3 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs


Dean wrote:
> Does anybody know if the 1971 thru 73 body style was run in the circuit? I
> know Ford pulled factory backing in 70,but did anyone run it independently?
> Any pictures on the net?


I'm pretty sure that no 4th gen Mustangs were ever campaigned in the
Trans Am. When Ford pulled out after the '70 season all the Bud Moore
factory team cars were sold off to privateers. These cars, and other
'69-'70's (iirc the "'70" Bud Moore cars were actually '69's with the
'70 trim details swapped in) were the Mustangs that ran in '71 forward.
Although I can't pull up a name from memory, at least one Bud Moore
team driver campaigned one of these in '71, still wearing the "school
bus yellow" Bud Moore paint job. The Ford privateers were no match for
the Penske AMC Javelin team, though.

After the '71 or '72 season, the Trans Am rules changed and big block
(427 and iirc 454 ci) Camaros and Corvettes were the only domestics
that were competitive with the Porsche 911's. Although a 429 or 460 ci
4th gen Mustang would have fit nicely into that same niche, it didn't
happen. So again I feel pretty confident without looking it up that no
4th gen Stangs ran in the historic Trans Am.

As far as Trans Am-ifying a '71-'73 coupe, I can only say it's about
time. I've been daydreaming about this myself ever since I saw a
lowered, fat-tired 4th gen coupe on the street a couple months ago.
Unlike the '65-'70's, a 385 block is a simple drop-in (giving you
relatively cheap crate motor options of 514 ci, 600+ hp), and 4th gen
coupes look baaad lowered and with a set of wide rims and tires.

That's really all you have to do to get the Trans Am look, lower it and
shoe it properly. The lowering is done with the springs. You can
adjust the ride height in front by cutting coils, and in the rear with
lowering blocks or -- my choice -- mounting a short leaf from your old
springs upside down on your new ones.

In fact the '71-'73 responds to all the same handling mods as the
earlier cars. Get some Koni or Bilstein or Edelbrock (in order of
preference) shocks, some stiff lowering springs, a larger sway bar, and
polygraphite or midolyne bushings. Some frame connectors. A 6-pt roll
cage is nice too. An underhood brace. Do the Shelby drop. Rollerized
spring perches. A good driver's seat and a 13" steering wheel. Brake
upgrades -- Praise Dyno might have some linings you could try and see
how they work, before jumping into the hyper expensive Baer or Wilwood
or SSBC 4 wheel disc realm. A Fays2 Watts link would be nice in the
rear. And some Dr. Gas side pipes would really top off the Trans Am
look, provided that they fit in with the frame connectors and the
lowering.

180 Out

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Old 12-14-2005, 13:01   #4 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs

I just remembered this web site for the latest 4th gen Ricky Racer
stuff:
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/dark_...t_products.htm

Dark Horse's own track car runs the full Total Control Products
coil-over treatment -- which confirms my suspicion that all the '65-'70
tricks will cross over -- and apparently a fiberglass front clip,
doors, and deck lid. The resulting weight loss would be a good
countermeasure for that 700 lb 514 up front. : ) And of course running
550 lb-ft of torque through the rear wheels would help coping with any
oversteer problems. : ) : ) : ) <--unprecedented 180 triple smiley!

180 Out

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Old 12-14-2005, 15:01   #5 (permalink)
walt peifer
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs


<one80out@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134582840.132767.155840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dean wrote:
>> Does anybody know if the 1971 thru 73 body style was run in the circuit?
>> I
>> know Ford pulled factory backing in 70,but did anyone run it
>> independently?
>> Any pictures on the net?

>
> I'm pretty sure that no 4th gen Mustangs were ever campaigned in the
> Trans Am. When Ford pulled out after the '70 season all the Bud Moore
> factory team cars were sold off to privateers. These cars, and other
> '69-'70's (iirc the "'70" Bud Moore cars were actually '69's with the
> '70 trim details swapped in) were the Mustangs that ran in '71 forward.
> Although I can't pull up a name from memory, at least one Bud Moore
> team driver campaigned one of these in '71, still wearing the "school
> bus yellow" Bud Moore paint job. The Ford privateers were no match for
> the Penske AMC Javelin team, though.
>
> After the '71 or '72 season, the Trans Am rules changed and big block
> (427 and iirc 454 ci) Camaros and Corvettes were the only domestics
> that were competitive with the Porsche 911's. Although a 429 or 460 ci
> 4th gen Mustang would have fit nicely into that same niche, it didn't
> happen. So again I feel pretty confident without looking it up that no
> 4th gen Stangs ran in the historic Trans Am.
>
> As far as Trans Am-ifying a '71-'73 coupe, I can only say it's about
> time. I've been daydreaming about this myself ever since I saw a
> lowered, fat-tired 4th gen coupe on the street a couple months ago.
> Unlike the '65-'70's, a 385 block is a simple drop-in (giving you
> relatively cheap crate motor options of 514 ci, 600+ hp), and 4th gen
> coupes look baaad lowered and with a set of wide rims and tires.
>
> That's really all you have to do to get the Trans Am look, lower it and
> shoe it properly. The lowering is done with the springs. You can
> adjust the ride height in front by cutting coils, and in the rear with
> lowering blocks or -- my choice -- mounting a short leaf from your old
> springs upside down on your new ones.
>
> In fact the '71-'73 responds to all the same handling mods as the
> earlier cars. Get some Koni or Bilstein or Edelbrock (in order of
> preference) shocks, some stiff lowering springs, a larger sway bar, and
> polygraphite or midolyne bushings. Some frame connectors. A 6-pt roll
> cage is nice too. An underhood brace. Do the Shelby drop. Rollerized
> spring perches. A good driver's seat and a 13" steering wheel. Brake
> upgrades -- Praise Dyno might have some linings you could try and see
> how they work, before jumping into the hyper expensive Baer or Wilwood
> or SSBC 4 wheel disc realm. A Fays2 Watts link would be nice in the
> rear. And some Dr. Gas side pipes would really top off the Trans Am
> look, provided that they fit in with the frame connectors and the
> lowering.
>
> 180 Out
>

I know that a few independents were still racing mustangs into the late
70's. I believe that dick trickle of NASCAR fame actually won a championship
on the short track series in 72, however I don't know what model car he was
running .Dark horse racing campaigned a 71 fastback for a while
http://www.historicmustang.com/page2b.html
for a pic. There were a few others I'll do some more research in my
archives.

p.s. I wouldn't recommend Koni shock on a 71-73. I've found that because of
the slightly more nose heavy attitude that the shocks are just too stiff
tried them on a 351c convertible and a 302 fastback. I like the gas shocks
on the front of this model. a rear sway control device of some type is a
must. as are a set of subframe connectors.


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Old 12-14-2005, 17:01   #6 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs


<one80out@hotmail.com> wrote
> These cars, and other
> '69-'70's (iirc the "'70" Bud Moore cars were actually '69's with the
> '70 trim details swapped in) were the Mustangs that ran in '71 forward.


(Quick short history)- Thanks to a spectacular accident in Ste Jovite during
the '69 season, 3 of the 6 Ford corporate backed cars were totalled.
Parnelli Jones' shift linkage jammed taking him out of the race early. But
the worst happened in Lap 14. George Follmer's Boss blew an engine, throwing
oil all over the track and he ended up in a guard rail. He had just gotten
out of the car when a Mini nailed his Mustang. Due to the accident, Horst
Kwech (from the Shelby team) slid into the fence pinning a race marshal,
breaking his arm. Pete Revson (also the Shelby team) hit the mess at full
speed, jumping one car and landing on the hood of a Firebird. The Mustangs
weren't damaged that badly until the tow trucks got to them. One tow truck
driver looped a steel cable around the roof of Kwech's Mustang to lift it
over the guardrail. You can imagine what THAT did to the body. All three
Mustangs were all but destroyed. They welded together 2 Bosses from the 3
destroyed ones. But they ran like crap after that. The Shelby effort was
basically finished after that race. (history over)

The '70 Boss 302 team cars were indeed '69's, but not Boss's. They were
originally plain jane Sportsroofs with 351 2V's sent to Kar Kraft for update
to '70 skin and full suspension mods. One cool thing to come from the rules
changes for '70 was that dual 4bbl carbs were no longer allowed, only single
4's. So Ford came up with the inline 4bbl carb, COOL!!

> Although I can't pull up a name from memory, at least one Bud Moore
> team driver campaigned one of these in '71,


Had to be either Parnelli or Follmer. Parnelli's car was sold after the '70
season to Tony DeLorenzo. He raced the car in '71, but in black and white,
not orange. And I doubt Parnelli drove much after that since he was
concentrating on his Indy car ownerships (he owned the cars that won the '70
and '71 Indy 500 With AJ Foyt driving) and he was getting deep in business
with Firestone distributorships by then too. Not much time for driving.
AFAIK, he never got back into a Trans Am car again until he started doing
vintage racing. He liked playing with his trucks.

This leaves us George Follmer. He drove a Javelin for AMC in '71, so it
wasn't him. Besides, Follmer's car was sold to Warren Tope at the end of the
1970 season. Tope won the 1971 A-Sedan Championship and raced it until 1973.
Tope then stripped the drive train and installed the parts on a new 1973
Mustang fastback (NOOOOOOO, say it isn't SO!!!!).

>So again I feel pretty confident without looking it up that no
> 4th gen Stangs ran in the historic Trans Am.


Yes they did. The very '73 I talked about above. Owned by Warren Tope. Look
RIGHT HERE--->
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/warren_tope.htm

> That's really all you have to do to get the Trans Am look, lower it and
> shoe it properly. The lowering is done with the springs. You can
> adjust the ride height in front by cutting coils, and in the rear with
> lowering blocks or -- my choice -- mounting a short leaf from your old
> springs upside down on your new ones.


As long as we all remember that LOOKING Trans-Am and BEING Trans-Am are two
very distinctly different things. The Boss's were sent to Kar Kraft for them
to work their magic. Most of which was NOT found on ANY stock Boss 302. Just
lowering and shodding will NOT give performance.

--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


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Old 12-14-2005, 19:01   #7 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs

Small world: that Dark Horse page mentions that Bill Maier owned and
raced the '73 Warren Tope Mustang. That's Maier as in Maier Racing,
where I have left behind quite a few dollars over the years. I'll have
to ask him about it next time I see him.

I did a Google on bill maier warren tope and got these pages:
http://www.ponysite.de/transam_news2.htm
http://www.ponysite.de/transam_tope.htm

So now Dean has three pages with pix of a 4th Gen racer.

I don't remember when the rules changes happened that allowed ponycars
to run big blocks, but my guess would be prior to the '73 model year.
So I doubt that the Topes car was a small block.

Maybe lowering and fat tires alone will not "give performance" -- I
disagree -- but I'll run for pinks against any Kar Kraft Trans Am Stang
vs. a 4th gen with 514ci/600+ hp, 17" rims and the biggest tires
that'll fit, bucks up shocks, lowering springs, a larger sway bar, poly
bushings, frame connectors, roll cage, underhood brace, Shelby drop,
rollerized spring perches, a good driver's seat, a 13" steering wheel,
Baer 4 wheel discs, and a Fays2. I'll even leave the airconditioner
on.

180 Out

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Old 12-14-2005, 21:01   #8 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs

66 6F HCS wrote:

> 180 Out wrote


>> Although I can't pull up a name from memory, at least one Bud Moore
>> team driver campaigned one of these in '71,


> Had to be either Parnelli or Follmer.


Or BOTH! As recounted by Rich Taylor in the May/June 1996 issue of
Vintage Motorsport:

"There was no Ford factory team in the 1971 Trans-Am, but there were
literally a dozen factory-built Mustangs in the series -- leftover
Shelby and Bud Moore works racers that had pased into private hands.
In fact, two of those private hands were Bud Moore's. When it was
obvious at the end of the 1970 season that Ford wouldn't be coming
back, Moore had his guys build two brand-new Mustang race cars from
unused 1970 parts and salt them away in preparation for '71.
Eventually he was able to put together enough race-by-race sponsorship
to run a 2-car team for Parnelli Jones and Peter Gregg, though Parnelli
retired after one race and was replaced by George Follmer. All things
considered, Follmer and Gregg did surprisingly well with this
shoestring operation, winning some races outright, often placing on the
podium, and helping Ford earn 61 points to Penske's 72 for AMC. With
truly limited resources, the Bud Moore cars were nearly as competitive
as the Ford factory effort had been in previous years. Very impressive.

"Moore sold two of his used 1970 race-cars to Troy Promotions -- a new
name for Tony DeLorenzo and Jerry Thompson. Despite their strong GM
connections (Thompson was a GM engineer and DeLorenzo's father a GM
vice president), the two ran a Mustang team sponsored by Marathon Oil.
Their highest finish was DeLorenzo's second at Lime Rock, but between
them they earned seven top-5 finishes and added enough points to Ford's
total to keep things interesting.

"Ford's 1970 Boss 302 was the best Trans-Am race car built during the
series' Golden Era -- certainly a better machine than Donohue's
Javelin. It was fast and reliable even in the hands of amateurs, and
even better, it was so strongly built it could survive and prosper even
when given the minimal maintenance that underfunded teams could afford.
With just a few dollars more, Bud Moore Engineering and Troy
Promotions might have stolen the Trans-Am from Roger and Mark in 1971.
This was mostly because the Mustangs were amazingly , but also because
Bud Moore Engineering proved itself to be far better than many people
expected."

As for Follmer working for Penske in '71:

"Roger Penske had the only factory deal left, but given AMC's level of
expertise, this wasn't as great a coup as it seemed. Like any private
team, Penske Racing still had to develop its own cars from scratch.
Roger scaled the efffort back to a single caare for Mark Donohue, with
David Hobbs available if needed. . . .

". . . Penske Racing built two new Javelins for Mark, a race car and a
spare. . . .

". . . Mark won seven of ten Trans-Ams, was second at Mid-Ohio with
locking brakes, had a carburetor linkage fai at Bryar while leading,
and didn't even come to Riverside for the last race of the season. In
1971, Penske Racing was the class of the series. . . .

Regarding the Riverside race, October 3, 1971 (whose immediate
predecessor was Michigan International on September 6):

"Riverside, California is a long drive from Spartanburg, South Carolina
-- particularly to race in a championship you've already lost -- so Bud
Moore and his Mustangs sat this one out. . . . George Follmer, already
looking ahead to the next season, agreed to replace Milt Minter in the
second Roy Woods Javelin. Roger Penske had to send a car to fulfill
his contract with AMC, so he hired Swede Savage to drive the Javelin
while Mark raced at Trenton, New Jersey in a postponed USAC event."

So that explains how it could be said that Follmer drove a Javelin in
the 1971 Trans Am -- the Bud Moore team stayed home, and evidently had
already told him it would not be back for '72.

Regarding the rule change I've referred to, in a September/October 1996
Vintage Motorsport story on the '73/'74 Trans Am, Rich Taylor writes:

"Autoweek's Decmeber 9, 1972 . . . story reported that at the November
19 annual meeting, the SCCA Board of Governors agreed to convert the
Trans-Am to 'full European FIA rules, Groups 1 through 4.'

"The important change was that the outlandish Special Grand Touring
cars from FIA Group 4 could now run in the Trans-Am. . . . Races would
be longer, too -- miimum of 310 miles (500K), which was more in the
spirit of the SCCA's original concept, since the Trans-Am had initially
been intended as an endurance-racing series."

The reason for these changes was to compete with the new sanctioning
organization, IMSA, and its Camel GT series, which followed the FIA
"Group" rules.

"Where did that leave the Trans-Am? In large part, it left it as a
place to run your IMSA car on off-weekends."

Even with the rule change, SCCA ran just six Trans Ams in '73 and three
in '74. So that Warren Tope '73 Mustang ran a max of eight races.

"The FIA rules allowed . . . teams . . . to take their cheap, leftover
Trans-Am Camaros and stuff 7-liter, 600-bhp, all-aluminum big-blocks
into them. With their increasingly sticky tires wrapped around
10x15-inch Minilites, these ground-shaking hotrods had a lot more grip,
a lot more midrange, and a lot more top end than their 302-carrying
predecessors. These cars were legal not just for Trans-Ams but for
IMSA and FIA GT races, too. Gene Felton even won some IMSA GTs
outright with his big-block 1969 Camaro.

"Externally, the Camaros got really cobby at this point, with
hammered-out fenders, bolt-on airdams, and huge hood bulges to keep
their 427s out of the sun. thanks to the wider tires, much greater
horsepower, and no increaase in weight, however, they were demonstrably
faster than their 5-liter progenitors. The big-block conversion made
for a much more capable racing car than before, if not a very pleasant
aesthetic statement."

As for the "Leftovers" of the '73-'74 Trans Ams:

"Particularly at the begining of the '73 Trans-Am season, any number of
leftover cars from 1972 and earlier went out to try their luck. . . .
Jerry Thompson tried the trusty old Herb Adams Firebird; and Tony
DeLorenzo still had his heart set on the venerable old Bud
Moore-prepped Boss Mustang. By mid-season, however, it was obvious
that the world had changed: The hot setup was a Porsche Carrera,
followed (at a considerable distance) by either a big-block Camaro or
Corvette. In 1973 and 1974, nothing else was even worth towing to the
track."

180 Out

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Old 12-14-2005, 22:01   #9 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
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Re: Trans Am Mustangs


<one80out@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Maybe lowering and fat tires alone will not "give performance" -- I
> disagree -- but I'll run for pinks against any Kar Kraft Trans Am Stang
> vs. a 4th gen with 514ci/600+ hp, 17" rims and the biggest tires
> that'll fit, bucks up shocks, lowering springs, a larger sway bar, poly
> bushings, frame connectors, roll cage, underhood brace, Shelby drop,
> rollerized spring perches, a good driver's seat, a 13" steering wheel,
> Baer 4 wheel discs, and a Fays2. I'll even leave the airconditioner
> on.


Maybe I should've clarified what I said better. A few expensive mods do not
a factory backed Trans Am Racer make. If Kar Kraft had the benefit of modern
technology and factory backing 35 years ago, they would clean any shade tree
enthusiasts clock every time with that same technology. Again, IMHO, a '69
race prepped Boss 302 with modern suspension, steering, brakes, wheel/tire
tech (as you describe above) but with a small block, will automatically be
WAY more nimble than the huge 71-73 boatstangs. Parnelli Jones piloted a '69
Boss 302 to a few ticks over 12 secs in a lazily shifted quarter mile pass
for a car rag of the time. This wasn't a drag car!! It wasn't set up for
drag racing, but for road racing, and it still slaughtered most anything
else made at the time. Now put that on a road course with modern advantages
and factory backing? I say the small block wins, easily. :)
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


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