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Old 09-11-2005, 15:01   #1 (permalink)
Rich
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Posts: n/a
Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.
Wouldn't it make more sense (given your DEBT)
to cut your losses, give each resident some kind
of payment and settle them elsewhere? Why must the
U.S. government allow itself to be bullied by the
media and the Democrats to waste money in such a
terrifying manner?
You have to stop spending money like the proverbial
drunken sailor. Eventually, China (which holds a huge
amount of your debt) will call in the loan.
-Rich
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Old 09-11-2005, 20:01   #2 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

Rich <none@none.com> wrote in news:ti29i19e4lmlqccf68v27rqcrc22k3n4c7@
4ax.com:

> That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.
> Wouldn't it make more sense (given your DEBT)
> to cut your losses, give each resident some kind
> of payment and settle them elsewhere? Why must the
> U.S. government allow itself to be bullied by the
> media and the Democrats to waste money in such a
> terrifying manner?
> You have to stop spending money like the proverbial
> drunken sailor. Eventually, China (which holds a huge
> amount of your debt) will call in the loan.
> -Rich


While I agree that rebuilding New Orleans (at least as it is) is a mistake,
the China issue is not as you claim.

That accumulated Balance of Payments deficit.. not a 'loan'.. is part of
Chinese State assets and it is not in their interest to have its value
fall.

Dont forget, for all the lip service paid to its Marxist roots and
governmental facade, China is REALLY run by "Red Army, Inc". And, indeed,
is one of the success stories of modern capitalism, though it's obviously
still in the works.

Too bad Fidel cant see the writing on the wall.
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Old 09-11-2005, 23:01   #3 (permalink)
Rich
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:35:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>Rich <none@none.com> wrote in news:ti29i19e4lmlqccf68v27rqcrc22k3n4c7@
>4ax.com:
>
>> That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.
>> Wouldn't it make more sense (given your DEBT)
>> to cut your losses, give each resident some kind
>> of payment and settle them elsewhere? Why must the
>> U.S. government allow itself to be bullied by the
>> media and the Democrats to waste money in such a
>> terrifying manner?
>> You have to stop spending money like the proverbial
>> drunken sailor. Eventually, China (which holds a huge
>> amount of your debt) will call in the loan.
>> -Rich

>
>While I agree that rebuilding New Orleans (at least as it is) is a mistake,
>the China issue is not as you claim.
>
>That accumulated Balance of Payments deficit.. not a 'loan'.. is part of
>Chinese State assets and it is not in their interest to have its value
>fall.
>
>Dont forget, for all the lip service paid to its Marxist roots and
>governmental facade, China is REALLY run by "Red Army, Inc". And, indeed,
>is one of the success stories of modern capitalism, though it's obviously
>still in the works.
>
>Too bad Fidel cant see the writing on the wall.


You'd think he would have when Russian pulled their welfare
payments to them. That was a long time ago.
-Rich
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Old 09-12-2005, 15:04   #4 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

Rich <none@none.com> wrote

>>Dont forget, for all the lip service paid to its Marxist roots and
>>governmental facade, China is REALLY run by "Red Army, Inc". And,
>>indeed, is one of the success stories of modern capitalism, though
>>it's obviously still in the works.
>>
>>Too bad Fidel cant see the writing on the wall.

>
> You'd think he would have when Russian pulled their welfare
> payments to them. That was a long time ago.
> -Rich
>


But for ALL that time, we've been giving Fidel a windmill to tilt against
and a strawman to fight!

get this...

If we had dropped ALL the sanctions against Cuba in 1980, and recognized
them with a handshake and "Bygones, eh Fidel?" He would have been LONG
gone by now! OR he would have a nice thriving little social-democrat
economy going on, nevermind the facade.

The ONLY way Marxism can compete with Democracy and capitalism is if the
opposing team refuses to play!

Nixon went to China, and for all their puffery and growling they sure's
hell aint gonna cut off their biggest market... and the longer this
relationship goes on, the less likely it will be.

if an underemployed conservative republican engineer gets it, WTF cant the
US Governemnt?
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Old 09-12-2005, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

Please don't take this as putting down your comment. That's not the
intent. And I'm not a Democrat. I believe New Orleans should be
rebuilt, but better. Just as after an earthquake, cities are rebuilt
around the world, but with improved safety in mind. The same is true
for tsunamis. There are coastal cities in Japan which have erected
huge sea walls rather than abandon the places.

My first response is... because it is our country to do with as we see
fit. It's our debt; though the debt is not the debt you seem to think
it is.

I would never consider telling all the people who live in areas prone
to repeated natural disasters to pack up, leave, and abandon that
area. Not for Americans, not for Canadians, not for Japanese, or
Indian, or anywhere else.

Consider the number of major earthquakes which hit the Pacific Rim,
and the number of tsunamis. Consider the numbers of areas which are
repeatedly destroyed by typhoons, hurricanes, tornados, major floods,
and earthquakes. Would you abandon all those areas; never to rebuild;
and force people who have lived there for generations to relocate?

Major civilizations have existed in zones prone to natural disasters.
Rome/Italy with major quakes, floods, and volcano's. Egypt, and Summer
with floods, Alexandria with quakes, Mexico with quakes and volcanic
activity. The entire Indian Ocean region with typhoons, floods, etc.
Japan with quakes and tsunamis. Those peoples have rebuilt time and
time again. Your thinking would have abandoned them all.

On a world basis, your theory of abandoning a place which is at high
risk would include most of the globe. When LA, or San Francisco, or
Anchorage were hit by major earthquakes, you would have closed them
down and moved everyone out? And all the people who farm the river
valleys of the Mississippi and Ohio would have been driven off their
lands? Any town which has been hit by more than one tornado would be
erased? Let's see, we'd have to move everyone out of the Bahamas, and
Florida. And Japan would have to be abandoned. Sections of Italy, of
course. Guess they'd have to abandon Cairo eventually since the Sahara
Desert continues to expand... and that too is considered a natural
disaster.

What if it were your home, where your ancestors had lived, and where
you had raised your children? How quick would you be to say,' abandon
this place and never rebuild it'? What if it were a portion of your
country destroyed by some natural catastrophe? Would you say to your
fellow citizens, 'look, here's some money. Forget your ancestral home.
Forget everything you grew up with... everything you ever knew growing
up. Start over in a new place.' Would you want them to say that to
you?

New Orleans was last flooded (majorly) around 1965. Forty years ago.
Meanwhile, Florida gets blasted every year by hurricanes which do
billions of dollars destruction each. Why should New Orleans be
abandoned more quickly than the majority of the state of Florida?

As for China ever calling in our markers, so to speak... not gonna
happen. If it did, we could do what other nations have done to us...
say, sorry, we can't pay so reschedule our debt.... or sorry, we just
nationalized everything. The US economy, even when it has a problem,
is still quite strong. Consider how many nations the US has bailed
out, and never been repaid for those trillions of dollars. Yet we have
not deflated like some balloon with a hole in it.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:52:35 -0400, Rich <none@none.com> wrote:

>That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.
>Wouldn't it make more sense (given your DEBT)
>to cut your losses, give each resident some kind
>of payment and settle them elsewhere? Why must the
>U.S. government allow itself to be bullied by the
>media and the Democrats to waste money in such a
>terrifying manner?
>You have to stop spending money like the proverbial
>drunken sailor. Eventually, China (which holds a huge
>amount of your debt) will call in the loan.
>-Rich


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

Gad what fools these morons be....
Children are obscene but should not be heard
Give me a peperoni pizza... or give me a calzone!
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Old 09-12-2005, 20:01   #6 (permalink)
Rich
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:18:47 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>Rich <none@none.com> wrote
>
>>>Dont forget, for all the lip service paid to its Marxist roots and
>>>governmental facade, China is REALLY run by "Red Army, Inc". And,
>>>indeed, is one of the success stories of modern capitalism, though
>>>it's obviously still in the works.
>>>
>>>Too bad Fidel cant see the writing on the wall.

>>
>> You'd think he would have when Russian pulled their welfare
>> payments to them. That was a long time ago.
>> -Rich
>>

>
>But for ALL that time, we've been giving Fidel a windmill to tilt against
>and a strawman to fight!
>
>get this...
>
>If we had dropped ALL the sanctions against Cuba in 1980, and recognized
>them with a handshake and "Bygones, eh Fidel?" He would have been LONG
>gone by now! OR he would have a nice thriving little social-democrat
>economy going on, nevermind the facade.
>
>The ONLY way Marxism can compete with Democracy and capitalism is if the
>opposing team refuses to play!
>
>Nixon went to China, and for all their puffery and growling they sure's
>hell aint gonna cut off their biggest market... and the longer this
>relationship goes on, the less likely it will be.
>
> if an underemployed conservative republican engineer gets it, WTF cant the
>US Governemnt?


China (and much of the Orient, for that matter) have curried favour
with the U.S., taken huge amounts of money for their products but
haven't allowed any semblance of competition from U.S. manufacturers
into their countries. However, China is continuing to bump it's
commie head up against the freedoms that have come with pretending to
run a free market economy. The latest is VOIP, or telephony over the
internet. It's SO hard to oppress people when they've been exposed to
a free market!
-Rich
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Old 09-13-2005, 00:01   #7 (permalink)
Ashton Crusher
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:35:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>Rich <none@none.com> wrote in news:ti29i19e4lmlqccf68v27rqcrc22k3n4c7@
>4ax.com:
>
>> That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.
>> Wouldn't it make more sense (given your DEBT)
>> to cut your losses, give each resident some kind
>> of payment and settle them elsewhere? Why must the
>> U.S. government allow itself to be bullied by the
>> media and the Democrats to waste money in such a
>> terrifying manner?
>> You have to stop spending money like the proverbial
>> drunken sailor. Eventually, China (which holds a huge
>> amount of your debt) will call in the loan.
>> -Rich

>
>While I agree that rebuilding New Orleans (at least as it is) is a mistake,
>the China issue is not as you claim.
>
>That accumulated Balance of Payments deficit.. not a 'loan'.. is part of
>Chinese State assets and it is not in their interest to have its value
>fall.
>


I think you are missing part of the picture. We sell bonds and China
buys them with US dollars that they have gotten from us buying stuff
from them. If China wants it's money back they stop buying our bonds
(debt). Same is true with the other countries who have purchase our
bonds, they always have the option to stop buying us bonds and buy
someone else's. If and when that happens who does the US sell their
debt (bonds) to? As fewer and fewer people want to buy our debt we
have to offer ever higher interest rates to make them interested in
buying again. As our economy becomes less sound, and as our countries
debt and deficit go ever higher our bonds become less attractive, just
as General Motors Bonds would become less and less attractive if GM
starting going in debt and also was losing market share and having to
borrow more and more money to stay afloat. That's where the US is now
- we owe everyone money (we have a huge debt) and continue to spend
MORE everyday then we take in from taxes (deficit). If you did that
same in your personal life you would wind up in bankruptcy in fairly
short order. The only reason the US isn't considered bankrupt is
because the US always has the option of taking MORE of your money in
taxes - all it takes is a quick vote in DC.
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Old 09-13-2005, 10:02   #8 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

Ashton Crusher <Hello@nowhere.net> wrote in
news:btnci15n4052b2mb8j1uvnh92u14aveqq2@4ax.com:



>>
>>While I agree that rebuilding New Orleans (at least as it is) is a
>>mistake, the China issue is not as you claim.
>>
>>That accumulated Balance of Payments deficit.. not a 'loan'.. is part
>>of Chinese State assets and it is not in their interest to have its
>>value fall.
>>

>
> I think you are missing part of the picture. We sell bonds and China
> buys them with US dollars that they have gotten from us buying stuff
> from them. If China wants it's money back they stop buying our bonds
> (debt). Same is true with the other countries who have purchase our
> bonds, they always have the option to stop buying us bonds and buy
> someone else's. If and when that happens who does the US sell their
> debt (bonds) to? As fewer and fewer people want to buy our debt we
> have to offer ever higher interest rates to make them interested in
> buying again. As our economy becomes less sound, and as our countries
> debt and deficit go ever higher our bonds become less attractive, just
> as General Motors Bonds would become less and less attractive if GM
> starting going in debt and also was losing market share and having to
> borrow more and more money to stay afloat. That's where the US is now
> - we owe everyone money (we have a huge debt) and continue to spend
> MORE everyday then we take in from taxes (deficit). If you did that
> same in your personal life you would wind up in bankruptcy in fairly
> short order. The only reason the US isn't considered bankrupt is
> because the US always has the option of taking MORE of your money in
> taxes - all it takes is a quick vote in DC.
>


No, i didnt miss ANY of it!

While what you are saying is true in the abstract it butts up against
reality. The bonds truly reflect on the national GDP.. in that they are
a "call device". It's the same as holding notes, itself; Too much
traffic and the remainder loses value.

While the Euro was strong it looked like we were in trouble... but that
bubble burst and the dollar holds. All because of the European
collective GDP..and now it looks as though the Sterling will remain
currency because of the inhibiting social program costs in Europe.

What IS a worrying effect is that despite adjustment the Yuan is still
artificially low. But that ALSO has a dampening effect. China cannot
exercise its call without increasing value of the yuan against the
dollar.

look what happened to yen when Japan it used many of its dollar reserves!
And then Japan came out of the 'neverland' phase to face a very long
recession.
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Old 09-13-2005, 19:01   #9 (permalink)
Hank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

Rich wrote:

> That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.


Cheney's Halliburton, a company with a long record
of fraud, tax payer theft, and tax evasion, has already
recieved lucrative no bid contracts, as has Bechtel.
One thing for sure, is that U.S. taxpayers and The
People of New Orleans will be the losers here, just
like U.S. tax payers and The People of Iraq are the
losers in bu$h's Iraq tragedy.
When it comes to wasting and spending our money, the
bu$h regime has no limits....


-

"The tools that enable Cuba save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:01   #10 (permalink)
ZombyWoof
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is American spending $300B to re-build New Orleans????

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:26 -0400, Hank <"stopbu$h"@treason.gov>
wrote:

>Rich wrote:
>
>> That's over $600,000 EACH for the residents.

>
> Cheney's Halliburton, a company with a long record
>of fraud, tax payer theft, and tax evasion, has already
>recieved lucrative no bid contracts, as has Bechtel.
> One thing for sure, is that U.S. taxpayers and The
>People of New Orleans will be the losers here, just
>like U.S. tax payers and The People of Iraq are the
>losers in bu$h's Iraq tragedy.
> When it comes to wasting and spending our money, the
>bu$h regime has no limits....
>
>

Well up to a point you are right, but the large majority of those
displaced by the Hurricane are going to come out smelling like a rose.
I can see it now the slum area is bulldozed and brand spankin ass low
cost/public housing is built in the area and in five years it is a
slum again.
--
Zombywoof

Si vis Pacem, Para bellum
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