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Old 07-27-2005, 21:01   #1 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Electric fans for early Mustangs

While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans, two
t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket A/C-equipped
'67 from running too hot.

Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel rad, the
largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the shroud, a 180
thermostat, and recently added one of those cylindrical overflow tanks. The
A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134 Vintage Air setup. I'll be damned if I can
keep it properly cooled here in Hot Louis. I do run a fairly aggressive
timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic ignition (Pertronix coil and
module). I run it as leanly as is ... well, as I really should, you know.
The little motor doesn't quite get too stanking hot to start, but it does
struggle at times if I'm just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine.
Traffic and stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually
becomes counterproductive, if you know what I mean...

So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up some
torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I once read of
a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like 1900 cfm in M&F
years ago but I can't remember. Any recommendations?

Thankssss

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65


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Old 07-27-2005, 22:01   #2 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

Wound Up wrote:
> While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans,
> two t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket
> A/C-equipped '67 from running too hot.
>
> Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel rad,
> the largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the shroud, a
> 180 thermostat, and recently added one of those cylindrical overflow
> tanks. The A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134 Vintage Air setup. I'll be
> damned if I can keep it properly cooled here in Hot Louis. I do run
> a fairly aggressive timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic
> ignition (Pertronix coil and module). I run it as leanly as is ...
> well, as I really should, you know. The little motor doesn't quite
> get too stanking hot to start, but it does struggle at times if I'm
> just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine. Traffic and
> stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually becomes
> counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>
> So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up
> some torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I
> once read of a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like
> 1900 cfm in M&F years ago but I can't remember. Any recommendations?
>
> Thankssss



My '68 Cougar with a 302/C4 and AC runs hot. Went from rebuilt 3 row to new
4 row to Griffin aluminum rad, shrouds on all. Regular to high-flow WP: no
diff. Mechanical or clutch fan, no diff. High-flow T-stat: no diff.
Water Wetter: no diff. Moved the trans cooler from the rad to external: no
diff. Over time, the whole of the changes helped a little. When I added
an oil cooler, tucked into the front of the driver's side fenderwell, that
seems to have been the added heat rejection needed to keep it under 205 on
really hot days. The cooler has an electric fan, but I have yet to power it
since it's been OK and not even gotten to the point where overheating seemed
to be imminent as before.

I got a two-speed Taurus fan, but there is not enough room between the WP
and the rad to fit it. Early on, I got a Black Magic fan: not enough room.
So,no 'lectric fan.

I would suggest first that you add an oil cooler. As for a decent puller
electric fan, I doubt you have any more room than I do.

Same clearance issue with the '58. Even with a '68 429 Tbird shorty WP,
can't fit the damn Taurus fan. I have the f row rad in it and with a simple
18" electric pusher it does not cool enough at low speeds. I am thinking of
trying the old 3 row in it to see if the 4 row core has too much airflow
resistance. I will also try to add a mechanical fan, although clearance
between the blades and the WP is an issue without running into the rad.
It's tight.

--


--
Tom

My diesel truck runs on used veg oil!
http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/main.html

My 1958 Ford
http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/

Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 23:01   #3 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

Here is a point which was just brought to my attention with regard to
cooling the cabin with 134a..... If it is not cooling properly; and I
mean blowing cold air; it may very well be from having too much or too
little 134a in the system. I forgot which it was he said. But he said
that when the units are charged, nearly everyone has the pressure
wrong. That was pointed out to me by the good folks at Custom Auto
Air. The guy said there is no reason why 134a does not cool as well,
except for the pressure differential.



On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:38:04 GMT, "Wound Up"
<none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote:

>While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans, two
>t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket A/C-equipped
>'67 from running too hot.
>
>Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel rad, the
>largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the shroud, a 180
>thermostat, and recently added one of those cylindrical overflow tanks. The
>A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134 Vintage Air setup. I'll be damned if I can
>keep it properly cooled here in Hot Louis. I do run a fairly aggressive
>timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic ignition (Pertronix coil and
>module). I run it as leanly as is ... well, as I really should, you know.
>The little motor doesn't quite get too stanking hot to start, but it does
>struggle at times if I'm just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine.
>Traffic and stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually
>becomes counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>
>So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up some
>torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I once read of
>a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like 1900 cfm in M&F
>years ago but I can't remember. Any recommendations?
>
>Thankssss


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 18:01   #4 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

"Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
news:kpYFe.1265$iM7.362@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Wound Up wrote:
>> While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans,
>> two t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket
>> A/C-equipped '67 from running too hot.
>>
>> Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel rad,
>> the largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the shroud, a
>> 180 thermostat, and recently added one of those cylindrical overflow
>> tanks. The A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134 Vintage Air setup. I'll be
>> damned if I can keep it properly cooled here in Hot Louis. I do run
>> a fairly aggressive timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic
>> ignition (Pertronix coil and module). I run it as leanly as is ...
>> well, as I really should, you know. The little motor doesn't quite
>> get too stanking hot to start, but it does struggle at times if I'm
>> just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine. Traffic and
>> stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually becomes
>> counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>>
>> So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up
>> some torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I
>> once read of a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like
>> 1900 cfm in M&F years ago but I can't remember. Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thankssss

>
>
> My '68 Cougar with a 302/C4 and AC runs hot. Went from rebuilt 3 row to
> new
> 4 row to Griffin aluminum rad, shrouds on all. Regular to high-flow WP:
> no
> diff. Mechanical or clutch fan, no diff. High-flow T-stat: no diff.
> Water Wetter: no diff. Moved the trans cooler from the rad to external:
> no
> diff.


Crikey how frustrating

Over time, the whole of the changes helped a little. When I added
> an oil cooler, tucked into the front of the driver's side fenderwell, that
> seems to have been the added heat rejection needed to keep it under 205 on
> really hot days. The cooler has an electric fan, but I have yet to power
> it
> since it's been OK and not even gotten to the point where overheating
> seemed
> to be imminent as before.
>
> I got a two-speed Taurus fan, but there is not enough room between the WP
> and the rad to fit it. Early on, I got a Black Magic fan: not enough
> room.
> So,no 'lectric fan.


I wondered about clearance. Looking at it... I just dunno

>
> I would suggest first that you add an oil cooler. As for a decent puller
> electric fan, I doubt you have any more room than I do.
>
> Same clearance issue with the '58. Even with a '68 429 Tbird shorty WP,
> can't fit the damn Taurus fan.


Thanks for the suggestion. That does make sense, and shouldn't be too hard
at all to do.

I remember you having some fits with that Taurus fan. How's the old gal
doing, anyway? You had a transmission issue, right? Ah, the fun of working
otu the kinks.

I have the f row rad in it and with a simple
> 18" electric pusher it does not cool enough at low speeds. I am thinking
> of
> trying the old 3 row in it to see if the 4 row core has too much airflow
> resistance. I will also try to add a mechanical fan, although clearance
> between the blades and the WP is an issue without running into the rad.
> It's tight.


Yeah... that's interesting about the 4-row having too much resistance. The
condenser is nice and big, but I believe it has that effect even without
adding hot air to the mix. The water pump is doing all it can, and the
clutch works... I never put much stock in "them Fords just run hot" but the
more I do, the more I believe it.

> --
>
>
> --
> Tom
>
> My diesel truck runs on used veg oil!
> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/main.html
>
> My 1958 Ford
> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>
> Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
> http://www.351cleveland.net
>
> "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
> unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
> would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
> of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
> Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
> or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
> are stupid."
>
> --President Dwight D. Eisenhower
>
>



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

I've heard that too; it has to be filled precisely in order to work well. I
told the guy at the shop "1.8 lbs" about 5 times. He guessed 3.5 oz. of
oil. Dammit, I forgot to look

We'll see how she does in a little while. I'm having that, and the front
perches done today. Someone made off with his old spring compressors so he
had to guy buy new ones. I wasn't eager to do the springs myself, having
never done 'em. I pray no more creaky front end for me with the new
perches... I am so bloody sick of it, another "do this, do that" affair.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

"Spike" <jma@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
news:qvkge1td7m8hb4n8eim35ips8f8i14sb77@4ax.com...
> Here is a point which was just brought to my attention with regard to
> cooling the cabin with 134a..... If it is not cooling properly; and I
> mean blowing cold air; it may very well be from having too much or too
> little 134a in the system. I forgot which it was he said. But he said
> that when the units are charged, nearly everyone has the pressure
> wrong. That was pointed out to me by the good folks at Custom Auto
> Air. The guy said there is no reason why 134a does not cool as well,
> except for the pressure differential.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:38:04 GMT, "Wound Up"
> <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote:
>
>>While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans, two
>>t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket A/C-equipped
>>'67 from running too hot.
>>
>>Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel rad, the
>>largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the shroud, a 180
>>thermostat, and recently added one of those cylindrical overflow tanks.
>>The
>>A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134 Vintage Air setup. I'll be damned if I can
>>keep it properly cooled here in Hot Louis. I do run a fairly aggressive
>>timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic ignition (Pertronix coil and
>>module). I run it as leanly as is ... well, as I really should, you know.
>>The little motor doesn't quite get too stanking hot to start, but it does
>>struggle at times if I'm just running around in the heat. Cruising is
>>fine.
>>Traffic and stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually
>>becomes counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>>
>>So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up some
>>torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I once read
>>of
>>a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like 1900 cfm in M&F
>>years ago but I can't remember. Any recommendations?
>>
>>Thankssss

>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
>
> "When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
> I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
> -JFK Inaugural Address



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 19:01   #6 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

I am redoing the front coil springs, perches, and isolators. This is
actually a pretty easy job, but dangerous as heck if you don't use the
right tool and make it a good one. Once the spring is compressed, if
the compressor should fail, you DON'T want to be in the way. Spring
compressors have ranged from about $30 to nearly $100.

Being nickel and dimed to death is no fun. Years ago I used to have to
buy silicone spray by the case for one car I had. Unfortunately,
owning a car is a losing proposition from the start. Consumer Reports
did some estimates on what it cost to drive various cars... AFTER... I
paid cash for a brand new 91 Pontiac TransAM GTA. They figured,
excluding gas, it would cost $1.78 per mile to drive it.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:25:29 GMT, "Wound Up"
<none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote:

>I've heard that too; it has to be filled precisely in order to work well. I
>told the guy at the shop "1.8 lbs" about 5 times. He guessed 3.5 oz. of
>oil. Dammit, I forgot to look
>
>We'll see how she does in a little while. I'm having that, and the front
>perches done today. Someone made off with his old spring compressors so he
>had to guy buy new ones. I wasn't eager to do the springs myself, having
>never done 'em. I pray no more creaky front end for me with the new
>perches... I am so bloody sick of it, another "do this, do that" affair.


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 19:01   #7 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

"Spike" <jma@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
news:8msie154qfvdern9utmnjrjhraefovgp4l@4ax.com...
>I am redoing the front coil springs, perches, and isolators. This is
> actually a pretty easy job, but dangerous as heck if you don't use the
> right tool and make it a good one. Once the spring is compressed, if
> the compressor should fail, you DON'T want to be in the way. Spring
> compressors have ranged from about $30 to nearly $100.


You've got a '65 A-code, right, Spike? I guess it's in your sig now ain't
it.

I've heard it's not bad, but just decided to avoid this particular job, and
have it done with the inspection and a/c re-charge. I am in SQUEAK-FREE
HEAVEN now, and the front end definitely feels tighter, the car corners more
flatly, and the steering is more responsive. I guess I didn't know exactly
how much slop there was in it. I drove it all over town, just trying to get
the front end to creak over swells and bumpy spots I used to cringe at. Not
one single noise, and the new tires are now noticeably quieter too. Of
course, I hear the windows rattling more =). The a/c has never blown
colder. Thinking about the oil cooler Tom recommended.

Get this - never been to this shop, and he installed new perches, did the
a/c service with 1.8 lbs. of R134, a lube job, and a safety inspection for
$261. His labor rate is $75. Don't you love driving old cars??? I'm
bringing him everything I can't or don't wanna do now.

> Being nickel and dimed to death is no fun. Years ago I used to have to
> buy silicone spray by the case for one car I had. Unfortunately,
> owning a car is a losing proposition from the start. Consumer Reports
> did some estimates on what it cost to drive various cars... AFTER... I
> paid cash for a brand new 91 Pontiac TransAM GTA. They figured,
> excluding gas, it would cost $1.78 per mile to drive it.


Yeah, it gets really old. I think I'm nearing the end of a long, dark,
expensive tunnel. To Hell with 89 octane being $2.40, I'm Mustanging
everywhere after this. I'm tickled shitless.

And that cost figure is ridiculous. I've heard $0.50 cited as a good
number. I remember those GTAs - $20,000 or so. The only Ponnywrecks I've
ever liked have been old goats and '78-9 400 T/As

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
>
> "When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
> I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
> -JFK Inaugural Address



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 20:01   #8 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

Wound Up wrote:
> "Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:kpYFe.1265$iM7.362@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> Wound Up wrote:
>>> While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans,
>>> two t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket
>>> A/C-equipped '67 from running too hot.
>>>
>>> Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel
>>> rad, the largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the
>>> shroud, a 180 thermostat, and recently added one of those
>>> cylindrical overflow tanks. The A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134
>>> Vintage Air setup. I'll be damned if I can keep it properly cooled
>>> here in Hot Louis. I do run
>>> a fairly aggressive timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic
>>> ignition (Pertronix coil and module). I run it as leanly as is ...
>>> well, as I really should, you know. The little motor doesn't quite
>>> get too stanking hot to start, but it does struggle at times if I'm
>>> just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine. Traffic and
>>> stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually
>>> becomes counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>>>
>>> So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up
>>> some torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I
>>> once read of a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like
>>> 1900 cfm in M&F years ago but I can't remember. Any
>>> recommendations?
>>>
>>> Thankssss

>>
>>
>> My '68 Cougar with a 302/C4 and AC runs hot. Went from rebuilt 3
>> row to new
>> 4 row to Griffin aluminum rad, shrouds on all. Regular to high-flow
>> WP: no
>> diff. Mechanical or clutch fan, no diff. High-flow T-stat: no
>> diff. Water Wetter: no diff. Moved the trans cooler from the rad to
>> external: no
>> diff.

>
> Crikey how frustrating
>
> Over time, the whole of the changes helped a little. When I added
>> an oil cooler, tucked into the front of the driver's side
>> fenderwell, that seems to have been the added heat rejection needed
>> to keep it under 205 on really hot days. The cooler has an electric
>> fan, but I have yet to power it
>> since it's been OK and not even gotten to the point where overheating
>> seemed
>> to be imminent as before.
>>
>> I got a two-speed Taurus fan, but there is not enough room between
>> the WP and the rad to fit it. Early on, I got a Black Magic fan:
>> not enough room.
>> So,no 'lectric fan.

>
> I wondered about clearance. Looking at it... I just dunno
>
>>
>> I would suggest first that you add an oil cooler. As for a decent
>> puller electric fan, I doubt you have any more room than I do.
>>
>> Same clearance issue with the '58. Even with a '68 429 Tbird shorty
>> WP, can't fit the damn Taurus fan.

>
> Thanks for the suggestion. That does make sense, and shouldn't be
> too hard at all to do.
>
> I remember you having some fits with that Taurus fan. How's the old
> gal doing, anyway? You had a transmission issue, right? Ah, the fun
> of working otu the kinks.


It's running OK, but I don't drive it often. I've been real busy with the
Vdub, both with the veg oil conversion (which seems to be working just fine)
and with repairs cuz it's just old.

Now, I'm stripping the '73 Montego. Gonna save the engine for the Cougar.


>
> I have the f row rad in it and with a simple
>> 18" electric pusher it does not cool enough at low speeds. I am
>> thinking of
>> trying the old 3 row in it to see if the 4 row core has too much
>> airflow resistance. I will also try to add a mechanical fan,
>> although clearance between the blades and the WP is an issue without
>> running into the rad. It's tight.

>
> Yeah... that's interesting about the 4-row having too much
> resistance. The condenser is nice and big, but I believe it has that
> effect even without adding hot air to the mix. The water pump is
> doing all it can, and the clutch works... I never put much stock in
> "them Fords just run hot" but the more I do, the more I believe it.



I dunno. I just thought I was cursed.

>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom
>>
>> My diesel truck runs on used veg oil!
>> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/main.html
>>
>> My 1958 Ford
>> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>>
>> Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
>> http://www.351cleveland.net
>>
>> "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
>> unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs,
>> you would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter
>> group,
>> of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
>> Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional
>> politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is
>> negligible and they
>> are stupid."
>>
>> --President Dwight D. Eisenhower


--


--
Tom

My diesel truck runs on used veg oil!
http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/main.html

My 1958 Ford
http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/

Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 21:01   #9 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

I selected the TA because it was traditional.... that is... it still
had the lonnnnngggggggg front end. None of that cab forward crap.
Mustangs at the time were stubby, and shortly thereafter GM shrank the
Firebirds and Camaros.

As for those 5c and 10c... eventually, when every piece of the car has
been replaced, it'll be over.... LOL

Sounds like you hit the right combo with the shop and the parts : )

I need to double check the zerk status, so I can do the lube, as well
as oil and filter changes. Of course, a new grease gun will be
required. All my power tools and timing light, tach/dwell meter, and
grease gun "disappeared" during my last move. Oh, well. Another day,
another dollar BEFORE taxes... : )

Actually,that $1.78 turned out to be low in the long run. So many
things went wrong with that car and nearly all due to the flexing of
the body, etc, from the Corvette engine. More than once I punched it
while cruising down the highway, broke rear traction, and wanted to go
sideways past the other cars on the road. And, I forget how many motor
mounts got broken.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:42:17 GMT, "Wound Up"
<none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote:

>"Spike" <jma@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
>news:8msie154qfvdern9utmnjrjhraefovgp4l@4ax.com...
>>I am redoing the front coil springs, perches, and isolators. This is
>> actually a pretty easy job, but dangerous as heck if you don't use the
>> right tool and make it a good one. Once the spring is compressed, if
>> the compressor should fail, you DON'T want to be in the way. Spring
>> compressors have ranged from about $30 to nearly $100.

>
>You've got a '65 A-code, right, Spike? I guess it's in your sig now ain't
>it.
>
>I've heard it's not bad, but just decided to avoid this particular job, and
>have it done with the inspection and a/c re-charge. I am in SQUEAK-FREE
>HEAVEN now, and the front end definitely feels tighter, the car corners more
>flatly, and the steering is more responsive. I guess I didn't know exactly
>how much slop there was in it. I drove it all over town, just trying to get
>the front end to creak over swells and bumpy spots I used to cringe at. Not
>one single noise, and the new tires are now noticeably quieter too. Of
>course, I hear the windows rattling more =). The a/c has never blown
>colder. Thinking about the oil cooler Tom recommended.
>
>Get this - never been to this shop, and he installed new perches, did the
>a/c service with 1.8 lbs. of R134, a lube job, and a safety inspection for
>$261. His labor rate is $75. Don't you love driving old cars??? I'm
>bringing him everything I can't or don't wanna do now.
>
>> Being nickel and dimed to death is no fun. Years ago I used to have to
>> buy silicone spray by the case for one car I had. Unfortunately,
>> owning a car is a losing proposition from the start. Consumer Reports
>> did some estimates on what it cost to drive various cars... AFTER... I
>> paid cash for a brand new 91 Pontiac TransAM GTA. They figured,
>> excluding gas, it would cost $1.78 per mile to drive it.

>
>Yeah, it gets really old. I think I'm nearing the end of a long, dark,
>expensive tunnel. To Hell with 89 octane being $2.40, I'm Mustanging
>everywhere after this. I'm tickled shitless.
>
>And that cost figure is ridiculous. I've heard $0.50 cited as a good
>number. I remember those GTAs - $20,000 or so. The only Ponnywrecks I've
>ever liked have been old goats and '78-9 400 T/As


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"When the time comes to lay down my life for my country,
I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."
-JFK Inaugural Address
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 21:01   #10 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Electric fans for early Mustangs

"Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
news:EVfGe.1509$iM7.463@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Wound Up wrote:
>> "Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:kpYFe.1265$iM7.362@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Wound Up wrote:
>>>> While we're on the topic of cooling, I have used two different fans,
>>>> two t-stats and two radiators in an effort to keep my aftermarket
>>>> A/C-equipped '67 from running too hot.
>>>>
>>>> Currently, I have a clean 3-row (scale problem wasn't bad) steel
>>>> rad, the largest 6-blade thermo clutched fan that would fit the
>>>> shroud, a 180 thermostat, and recently added one of those
>>>> cylindrical overflow tanks. The A/C system is a 1.8 lb. R134
>>>> Vintage Air setup. I'll be damned if I can keep it properly cooled
>>>> here in Hot Louis. I do run
>>>> a fairly aggressive timing curve, and a fairly hot electronic
>>>> ignition (Pertronix coil and module). I run it as leanly as is ...
>>>> well, as I really should, you know. The little motor doesn't quite
>>>> get too stanking hot to start, but it does struggle at times if I'm
>>>> just running around in the heat. Cruising is fine. Traffic and
>>>> stop-and-go blows. When it really gets hot, the A/C actually
>>>> becomes counterproductive, if you know what I mean...
>>>>
>>>> So now I am thinking high-capacity electric fan, also to loosen up
>>>> some torque, and save a little gas. Advertising doesn't help me. I
>>>> once read of a slick elec. fan conversion that flowed something like
>>>> 1900 cfm in M&F years ago but I can't remember. Any
>>>> recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> Thankssss
>>>
>>>
>>> My '68 Cougar with a 302/C4 and AC runs hot. Went from rebuilt 3
>>> row to new
>>> 4 row to Griffin aluminum rad, shrouds on all. Regular to high-flow
>>> WP: no
>>> diff. Mechanical or clutch fan, no diff. High-flow T-stat: no
>>> diff. Water Wetter: no diff. Moved the trans cooler from the rad to
>>> external: no
>>> diff.

>>
>> Crikey how frustrating
>>
>> Over time, the whole of the changes helped a little. When I added
>>> an oil cooler, tucked into the front of the driver's side
>>> fenderwell, that seems to have been the added heat rejection needed
>>> to keep it under 205 on really hot days. The cooler has an electric
>>> fan, but I have yet to power it
>>> since it's been OK and not even gotten to the point where overheating
>>> seemed
>>> to be imminent as before.
>>>
>>> I got a two-speed Taurus fan, but there is not enough room between
>>> the WP and the rad to fit it. Early on, I got a Black Magic fan:
>>> not enough room.
>>> So,no 'lectric fan.

>>
>> I wondered about clearance. Looking at it... I just dunno
>>
>>>
>>> I would suggest first that you add an oil cooler. As for a decent
>>> puller electric fan, I doubt you have any more room than I do.
>>>
>>> Same clearance issue with the '58. Even with a '68 429 Tbird shorty
>>> WP, can't fit the damn Taurus fan.

>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion. That does make sense, and shouldn't be
>> too hard at all to do.
>>
>> I remember you having some fits with that Taurus fan. How's the old
>> gal doing, anyway? You had a transmission issue, right? Ah, the fun
>> of working otu the kinks.

>
> It's running OK, but I don't drive it often. I've been real busy with the
> Vdub, both with the veg oil conversion (which seems to be working just
> fine)
> and with repairs cuz it's just old.


I'm glad it's working well. It looked like a plumbing nightmare, but it
must be cool to run a car on used veggie oil. Any monetary ROI-type
analyses on it?

> Now, I'm stripping the '73 Montego. Gonna save the engine for the Cougar.


And that would be an FE I'd guess?

Wait, this was the one you had that adventure with at GhettoDeath GasMart
with the alternator. Now I remember, I told a similar story about a coil
puke. Your wife came with parts and you limped the car home on almost zero
juice. Mine zipped over with my orig '67 coil, and I performed a pit lane
repair in my white work shirt, escaping the crackheads

I saw such a nice CJ Cougar the other day I was standing in the blazing sun
suddenly unaware of the heat, gawking.

>>
>> I have the f row rad in it and with a simple
>>> 18" electric pusher it does not cool enough at low speeds. I am
>>> thinking of
>>> trying the old 3 row in it to see if the 4 row core has too much
>>> airflow resistance. I will also try to add a mechanical fan,
>>> although clearance between the blades and the WP is an issue without
>>> running into the rad. It's tight.

>>
>> Yeah... that's interesting about the 4-row having too much
>> resistance. The condenser is nice and big, but I believe it has that
>> effect even without adding hot air to the mix. The water pump is
>> doing all it can, and the clutch works... I never put much stock in
>> "them Fords just run hot" but the more I do, the more I believe it.

>
> I dunno. I just thought I was cursed.


Well, you might be, but not because of that. Crusty geezer with many old
FoMoCo products in his yard said that 10 summers ago, while watching my
Mustang pee antifreeze, and a good number of others have echoed the
sentiment. I tend to doubt generalizations like that, but it seems to be
true. And sure it's hot here but it doesn't hold a candle to your neck of
the desert

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65


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