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Old 06-26-2005, 09:01   #1 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
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Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?


At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150 vacuum
secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical shape, as
marine carbs often are since they don't get used that much. I'm gonna put
this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I am wondering what is the
need for a secondary PV, and if I should consider plugging it or running
one.

Thoughts?


--


Tom

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Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment
insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of
that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that
believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L. Hunt...a few other
Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from
other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


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Old 06-26-2005, 15:01   #2 (permalink)
Big Al
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Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?


"Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Etzve.31$j04.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150 vacuum
> secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical shape, as
> marine carbs often are since they don't get used that much. I'm gonna put
> this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I am wondering what is the
> need for a secondary PV, and if I should consider plugging it or running
> one.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> --
>
>
> Tom
>


Are you going to drive it on the street? If so keep the power valve. If not,
ditch it and richen up the rear jets about seven sizes. If you keep it get
one of the anti-blow out kits for it.

Al # 35


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Old 06-26-2005, 20:01   #3 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
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Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?

Big Al wrote:
> "Whole Lotta Tom" <tomcrocker@poboxnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Etzve.31$j04.22@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150
>> vacuum secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical
>> shape, as marine carbs often are since they don't get used that
>> much. I'm gonna put this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I
>> am wondering what is the need for a secondary PV, and if I should
>> consider plugging it or running one.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>

>
> Are you going to drive it on the street? If so keep the power valve.
> If not, ditch it and richen up the rear jets about seven sizes. If
> you keep it get one of the anti-blow out kits for it.
>
> Al # 35


Thanks!

--


Tom

http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/

Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


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Old 06-27-2005, 00:01   #4 (permalink)
geewhiz
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Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?

I've never quite been able to find out why Holley puts power valves in
the secondaries, since the PV is wide open any time the secondaries are
open anyhow. You got your foot in it, right?

For reliability, a plug and an increase in jet size to compensate is a
good thing to do, as Big Al suggests.

Gerard

>
> At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150 vacuum
> secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical shape, as
> marine carbs often are since they don't get used that much. I'm gonna put
> this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I am wondering what is the
> need for a secondary PV, and if I should consider plugging it or running
> one.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
>
> Tom
>
> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>
> Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
> http://www.351cleveland.net
>
> "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment
> insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of
> that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that
> believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L. Hunt...a few other
> Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from
> other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
>
> --President Dwight D. Eisenhower



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Old 06-27-2005, 07:01   #5 (permalink)
Dodge-Him
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Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?

I agree the newer holley's don't use the secondary PV. plug it and go 7
to 8 jet sizes. A PV in the front barrels properly tailored to your
vacuum really makes them work much better transisioning to and off part
throttle and WOT bursts!
Dodgem!

geewhiz wrote:
> I've never quite been able to find out why Holley puts power valves in
> the secondaries, since the PV is wide open any time the secondaries are
> open anyhow. You got your foot in it, right?
>
> For reliability, a plug and an increase in jet size to compensate is a
> good thing to do, as Big Al suggests.
>
> Gerard
>
>
>>At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150 vacuum
>>secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical shape, as
>>marine carbs often are since they don't get used that much. I'm gonna put
>>this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I am wondering what is the
>>need for a secondary PV, and if I should consider plugging it or running
>>one.
>>
>>Thoughts?
>>
>>--
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>>
>>Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
>>http://www.351cleveland.net
>>
>>"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment
>>insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of
>>that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that
>>believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L. Hunt...a few other
>>Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from
>>other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
>>
>>--President Dwight D. Eisenhower

>
>
>


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Old 06-27-2005, 17:01   #6 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
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Posts: n/a
Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?

geewhiz" <"checkmywebsite wrote:
> I've never quite been able to find out why Holley puts power valves in
> the secondaries, since the PV is wide open any time the secondaries
> are
> open anyhow. You got your foot in it, right?
>
> For reliability, a plug and an increase in jet size to compensate is a
> good thing to do, as Big Al suggests.
>
> Gerard


This was my first thought since I have never used a PV in any of my 4150
carbs. I also worry that if I wind the 460 out it will pull a vacuum around
7k sufficient to close the PV. Not having a PV is one effective way to
eliminate this possibility.

>
>>
>> At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150
>> vacuum secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great mechanical
>> shape, as marine carbs often are since they don't get used that
>> much. I'm gonna put this on the 460. As I consider this beastie, I
>> am wondering what is the need for a secondary PV, and if I should
>> consider plugging it or running one.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>>
>> Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
>> http://www.351cleveland.net
>>
>> "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
>> unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs,
>> you would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter
>> group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them
>> are H.L. Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an
>> occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number
>> is negligible and they are stupid."
>>
>> --President Dwight D. Eisenhower


--


Tom

http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/

Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005, 18:01   #7 (permalink)
Whole Lotta Tom
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?

Dodge-Him wrote:
> I agree the newer holley's don't use the secondary PV. plug it and go
> 7
> to 8 jet sizes. A PV in the front barrels properly tailored to your
> vacuum really makes them work much better transisioning to and off
> part throttle and WOT bursts!
> Dodgem!


I'm hip to PVs in general, just puzzled about the need in the secondary. I
think plugging it be the way to go. Now I gotta buy a plug. And I just
spent five whole bux on the carb! Aw.

>
> geewhiz wrote:
>> I've never quite been able to find out why Holley puts power valves
>> in
>> the secondaries, since the PV is wide open any time the secondaries
>> are open anyhow. You got your foot in it, right?
>>
>> For reliability, a plug and an increase in jet size to compensate is
>> a
>> good thing to do, as Big Al suggests.
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>>> At a yard sale, for five bux heh heh heh, I picked up a marine 4150
>>> vacuum secondary *850* CFM Holley. The thing is in great
>>> mechanical shape, as marine carbs often are since they don't get
>>> used that much. I'm gonna put this on the 460. As I consider this
>>> beastie, I am wondering what is the need for a secondary PV, and if
>>> I should consider plugging it or running one.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/
>>>
>>> Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
>>> http://www.351cleveland.net
>>>
>>> "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
>>> unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs,
>>> you would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter
>>> group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them
>>> are H.L. Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an
>>> occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number
>>> is negligible and they are stupid."
>>>
>>> --President Dwight D. Eisenhower


--


Tom

http://www.geocities.com/styleline58/

Visit the Cleveland Engine Forum
http://www.351cleveland.net

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you
would not hear of that party again.... There is a tiny splinter group,
of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L.
Hunt...a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician
or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they
are stupid."

--President Dwight D. Eisenhower


  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005, 20:01   #8 (permalink)
keller428@hotmail.com
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Re: Holley: Secondary power valves. Keep or plug or what?



First off, you suck for getting such a great deal on the carb. :))

Most 850 marine 4150's were used on big block marine engines with good
sized camshafts right from the factory. Typically the higher
performance versions of the 454-502 equipped Mercruisers had these
carbs. (Was the carb black powder coated?) As a result you'll notice
that the PV in that carb *is most likely* a 45 or even a 35 rather than
the 65 that most people see on the street. The 45 valve opens at 4.5
inches of vacuum, the 65 opens at 6.5 inches, etc....

If your running on the street (at all) your going to be transitioning
gradually through part throttle (as opposed to slamming WOT immediately
like in a drag racing start situation) then you should keep the power
valves on both sides of the carb. Many people automatically remove the
power valves thinking this is the way to go for thier hot engine. The
power valve "times" or controls when the power circut of the carburator
is activated. The power circuit feeds extra fuel needed during high
load and/or WOT situations. When the power valve circuit is plugged,
part throttle fuel economy suffers greatly and the mixture usually
becomes too rich. Plug fouling is usually a problem at part throttle
and the engine becomes tempermental.

If this is a race only set up then you could get rid of the secondary
PV and use a plug if you really think you need to (keep one in the
primary side to keep the motor from fouling in the staging lanes). With
the proper PV (PV's go all the way down to a 25) for your engine combo
you should have no problems with a PV equipped Holley on a normally
aspirated engine. Use one of the readily available power valve blow out
protection devices out on the market.

We've had the best luck with a properly tuned carb with correctly
selected power valves in everything we've built to date.

-Mike.

Thundersnake #5

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