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Old 10-09-2005, 22:01   #1 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mustang stored for the Winter

With Autumn barely here, I had to put the Mustang in storage today.

It's really too bad when apparently reputable magazine editors recommend
disreputable, abrasive, arrogant and opportunistically profiteering
aftermarket vendors to newbie enthusiasts (like me, 10 years ago), who
work diligently to make their overpriced garbage work effectively, yet
they fails (expensively, and dangerously) because of the shitty quality
of these overpriced parts. Throw in a few of life's normal curveballs,
and you have your car sitting for six more months because you have to
spend your hard-earned salary on more pressing matters.

When will scientific quality control and durability tests be done on ANY
of these so-called expert restomod vendors? When will the quality and
the crap be empirically identified? It does the hobby and the industry
a grave disservice to recommend sub-par vendors to willing enthusiasts
with money burning holes in their pockets. It gravely skews the truth
to hide behind "product news" journalism as a reason to recommend a
given vendor, and always hurts the credibility of both parties when it
backfires.

I know. Caveat emptor. But the burden of responsibility in terms of
manufacturing quality control and maintaining honest business practices
is not on the eager, garden-variety enthusiast. It is on the
manufacturers, and the vendors, and their published, gushing, proponent
friends. It is a shameful thing to grease palms and recommend shitty
overpriced parts to the learning, monied, and basically trusting
marketplace both supposedly serve. I have no qualms with the basic
profit motive. It is the very lowly opportunistic greed and arrogance
that too often follows this motive I loathe with every cell of my being.
And that is why my car sits, and my headaches grow.

"The more virtuous any man is, the less easily does he suspect others to
be vicious." - Cicero

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-10-2005, 00:01   #2 (permalink)
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
service was, etc.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:47:57 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me>
wrote:

>With Autumn barely here, I had to put the Mustang in storage today.
>
>It's really too bad when apparently reputable magazine editors recommend
>disreputable, abrasive, arrogant and opportunistically profiteering
>aftermarket vendors to newbie enthusiasts (like me, 10 years ago), who
>work diligently to make their overpriced garbage work effectively, yet
>they fails (expensively, and dangerously) because of the shitty quality
>of these overpriced parts. Throw in a few of life's normal curveballs,
>and you have your car sitting for six more months because you have to
>spend your hard-earned salary on more pressing matters.
>
>When will scientific quality control and durability tests be done on ANY
>of these so-called expert restomod vendors? When will the quality and
>the crap be empirically identified? It does the hobby and the industry
>a grave disservice to recommend sub-par vendors to willing enthusiasts
>with money burning holes in their pockets. It gravely skews the truth
>to hide behind "product news" journalism as a reason to recommend a
>given vendor, and always hurts the credibility of both parties when it
>backfires.
>
>I know. Caveat emptor. But the burden of responsibility in terms of
>manufacturing quality control and maintaining honest business practices
>is not on the eager, garden-variety enthusiast. It is on the
>manufacturers, and the vendors, and their published, gushing, proponent
>friends. It is a shameful thing to grease palms and recommend shitty
>overpriced parts to the learning, monied, and basically trusting
>marketplace both supposedly serve. I have no qualms with the basic
>profit motive. It is the very lowly opportunistic greed and arrogance
>that too often follows this motive I loathe with every cell of my being.
> And that is why my car sits, and my headaches grow.
>
>"The more virtuous any man is, the less easily does he suspect others to
>be vicious." - Cicero


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
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Old 10-10-2005, 11:01   #3 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

Spike wrote:
> Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
> satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
> service was, etc.
>


I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
sharing experiences I've had with specific people.

I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.

Thoughts, anyone?


> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:47:57 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me>
> wrote:
>
>
>>With Autumn barely here, I had to put the Mustang in storage today.
>>
>>It's really too bad when apparently reputable magazine editors recommend
>>disreputable, abrasive, arrogant and opportunistically profiteering
>>aftermarket vendors to newbie enthusiasts (like me, 10 years ago), who
>>work diligently to make their overpriced garbage work effectively, yet
>>they fails (expensively, and dangerously) because of the shitty quality
>>of these overpriced parts. Throw in a few of life's normal curveballs,
>>and you have your car sitting for six more months because you have to
>>spend your hard-earned salary on more pressing matters.
>>
>>When will scientific quality control and durability tests be done on ANY
>>of these so-called expert restomod vendors? When will the quality and
>>the crap be empirically identified? It does the hobby and the industry
>>a grave disservice to recommend sub-par vendors to willing enthusiasts
>>with money burning holes in their pockets. It gravely skews the truth
>>to hide behind "product news" journalism as a reason to recommend a
>>given vendor, and always hurts the credibility of both parties when it
>>backfires.
>>
>>I know. Caveat emptor. But the burden of responsibility in terms of
>>manufacturing quality control and maintaining honest business practices
>>is not on the eager, garden-variety enthusiast. It is on the
>>manufacturers, and the vendors, and their published, gushing, proponent
>>friends. It is a shameful thing to grease palms and recommend shitty
>>overpriced parts to the learning, monied, and basically trusting
>>marketplace both supposedly serve. I have no qualms with the basic
>>profit motive. It is the very lowly opportunistic greed and arrogance
>>that too often follows this motive I loathe with every cell of my being.
>> And that is why my car sits, and my headaches grow.
>>
>>"The more virtuous any man is, the less easily does he suspect others to
>>be vicious." - Cicero

>
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
> http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg



--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 12:01   #4 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

First, saying anything good about a company, part, etc, should see no
conflict.

Second, it should not be a problem to relate a personal experience
encountered as long as it is a personal opinion or based on a true
incident.

Third, I suppose you could mention only the good, and leave out any
bad, and that should give consumers a start point and a hint that if
all these people are not mentioning certain parties, then perhaps they
should consider a purchase elsewhere.

Fourth, perhaps a disclaimer would be in order. Something like the
views expressed are the posting parties views and may not reflect the
views of this news group, or any other subscribers.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:55:45 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me>
wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
>> satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
>> service was, etc.
>>

>
>I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
>about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
>war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
>has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
>CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
>sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>
>I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
>length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
>thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>
>Thoughts, anyone?
>
>
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:47:57 GMT, Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>With Autumn barely here, I had to put the Mustang in storage today.
>>>
>>>It's really too bad when apparently reputable magazine editors recommend
>>>disreputable, abrasive, arrogant and opportunistically profiteering
>>>aftermarket vendors to newbie enthusiasts (like me, 10 years ago), who
>>>work diligently to make their overpriced garbage work effectively, yet
>>>they fails (expensively, and dangerously) because of the shitty quality
>>>of these overpriced parts. Throw in a few of life's normal curveballs,
>>>and you have your car sitting for six more months because you have to
>>>spend your hard-earned salary on more pressing matters.
>>>
>>>When will scientific quality control and durability tests be done on ANY
>>>of these so-called expert restomod vendors? When will the quality and
>>>the crap be empirically identified? It does the hobby and the industry
>>>a grave disservice to recommend sub-par vendors to willing enthusiasts
>>>with money burning holes in their pockets. It gravely skews the truth
>>>to hide behind "product news" journalism as a reason to recommend a
>>>given vendor, and always hurts the credibility of both parties when it
>>>backfires.
>>>
>>>I know. Caveat emptor. But the burden of responsibility in terms of
>>>manufacturing quality control and maintaining honest business practices
>>>is not on the eager, garden-variety enthusiast. It is on the
>>>manufacturers, and the vendors, and their published, gushing, proponent
>>>friends. It is a shameful thing to grease palms and recommend shitty
>>>overpriced parts to the learning, monied, and basically trusting
>>>marketplace both supposedly serve. I have no qualms with the basic
>>>profit motive. It is the very lowly opportunistic greed and arrogance
>>>that too often follows this motive I loathe with every cell of my being.
>>> And that is why my car sits, and my headaches grow.
>>>
>>>"The more virtuous any man is, the less easily does he suspect others to
>>>be vicious." - Cicero

>>
>>
>> Spike
>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
>> 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
>> 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
>> http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg


Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
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Old 10-10-2005, 12:01   #5 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter


Wound Up wrote:
> Spike wrote:
> > Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
> > satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
> > service was, etc.
> >

>
> I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
> about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
> war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
> has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
> CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
> sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>
> I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
> length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
> thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>

Just a couple of my own home-grown homilies: (a) People are as good as
they need to be; and (b) When you go with mods and aftermarket parts,
you bring it on yourself.

What (a) means, is that while most people are of good will and all, the
system in which each man finds himself will require compromises, will
require results which standing alone are less than perfect. In the
case of aftermarket vendors, let's say somebody makes an utterly
bulletproof cable clutch kit, but the materials involved require a
retail price of $150 more than the competition. How long does he stay
in business? NOT VERY LONG! Just think about all these small
businesses, guys who've put everything they own on the line, their
families' welfare too; they GOT to keep the doors open.

What (b) means, is that you ARE your own R&D. My garage is full of
bits and pieces of ideas that seemed like a good idea at the time, but
they didn't work out. On the other hand, sometimes the part works
exactly as it should, first time out.

As far as the magazines, yeah it would be nice if Mustang & Fords or
Mustang Monthly would lower the boom on some of the crap out there. My
particular target would be Custom Autosound. Everything they make is
junk, worse than the worst of 30 years ago. But you can wait till the
sun cools for M&F or MM to tell the truth about Custom Autosound, and
kiss goodbye their advertising dollars. As to that, see homily (a).

180 Out

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Old 10-10-2005, 14:01   #6 (permalink)
Nosey
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Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter


> I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
> about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
> war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
> has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
> CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
> sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>
> I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
> length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
> thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?


Libel and slander only apply to knowingly making false statements. I see
nothing wrong with you sharing a true story about first hand experience with
a product or vendor. If it's a bad experience with someone that frequents
this group it might escalate into a flame war. I think I'd avoid that.
--
Ken
ThunderSnake #51


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Old 10-10-2005, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

On 10 Oct 2005 11:44:04 -0700, one80out@hotmail.com wrote:

>
>Wound Up wrote:
>> Spike wrote:
>> > Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
>> > satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
>> > service was, etc.
>> >

>>
>> I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
>> about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
>> war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
>> has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
>> CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
>> sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>>
>> I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
>> length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
>> thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>>
>> Thoughts, anyone?
>>

>Just a couple of my own home-grown homilies: (a) People are as good as
>they need to be; and (b) When you go with mods and aftermarket parts,
>you bring it on yourself.
>
>What (a) means, is that while most people are of good will and all, the
>system in which each man finds himself will require compromises, will
>require results which standing alone are less than perfect. In the
>case of aftermarket vendors, let's say somebody makes an utterly
>bulletproof cable clutch kit, but the materials involved require a
>retail price of $150 more than the competition. How long does he stay
>in business? NOT VERY LONG! Just think about all these small
>businesses, guys who've put everything they own on the line, their
>families' welfare too; they GOT to keep the doors open.
>
>What (b) means, is that you ARE your own R&D. My garage is full of
>bits and pieces of ideas that seemed like a good idea at the time, but
>they didn't work out. On the other hand, sometimes the part works
>exactly as it should, first time out.
>
>As far as the magazines, yeah it would be nice if Mustang & Fords or
>Mustang Monthly would lower the boom on some of the crap out there. My
>particular target would be Custom Autosound. Everything they make is
>junk, worse than the worst of 30 years ago. But you can wait till the
>sun cools for M&F or MM to tell the truth about Custom Autosound, and
>kiss goodbye their advertising dollars. As to that, see homily (a).
>
>180 Out

So far my CAS is working fine. Perhaps unfortunately, but they are the
only outfit I can find that makes a system which doesn't require me to
cut out a section of the dash, or install in an odd location.
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.
http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
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Old 10-10-2005, 19:01   #8 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

one80out@hotmail.com wrote:
> Wound Up wrote:
>
>>Spike wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
>>>satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
>>>service was, etc.
>>>

>>
>>I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
>>about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
>>war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
>>has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
>>CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
>>sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>>
>>I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
>>length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
>>thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>>
>>Thoughts, anyone?
>>

>
> Just a couple of my own home-grown homilies: (a) People are as good as
> they need to be; and (b) When you go with mods and aftermarket parts,
> you bring it on yourself.
>


I agree with (a), generally speaking. As far as (b) goes, I will wait
to see what you say.

> What (a) means, is that while most people are of good will and all, the
> system in which each man finds himself will require compromises, will
> require results which standing alone are less than perfect. In the
> case of aftermarket vendors, let's say somebody makes an utterly
> bulletproof cable clutch kit, but the materials involved require a
> retail price of $150 more than the competition. How long does he stay
> in business? NOT VERY LONG! Just think about all these small
> businesses, guys who've put everything they own on the line, their
> families' welfare too; they GOT to keep the doors open.
>


It is true that market differentiation based on a quality product or
service assumes you can be IN that market long enough to sell the
quality product or service. So I see your point on that. Not everyone
can absorb losses for years, or even months, before they get a foothold
and some recognition.

> What (b) means, is that you ARE your own R&D. My garage is full of
> bits and pieces of ideas that seemed like a good idea at the time, but
> they didn't work out. On the other hand, sometimes the part works
> exactly as it should, first time out.
>


The problem I have is the -intent-. The intent is not to actually serve
the market, it is to do it no service at all, or a disservice. At
first, it probably wasn't, but these same people who got into the
business because they were passionate hobbyists, professional mechanics,
and/or engineers with good idea #1 often turn malevolent and evil
because of not-too-bright idea #2, which is that good liars often make
more money. Slick ads and bullshit sell shitty parts. Having or making
buddies in hobbyist magazines helps, too. Have the mags heard
complaints? Maybe, but we're all hapless idiots, the ones who complain,
anyway, right? We don't know what we're doing. We can't read
instructions. But some of us do. Who can tell? Who cares anyway?
It's all a huge mess. There have been many days I've wished I never got
into it this deep. But there are more days I assure myself that when I
have what I want, it is going to be better, slicker, and more satisfying
than I envisioned. And, it is going to be fast enough and brake hard
enough to scare even hearty souls.

I have learned a lot, true, and much of the reason I participate in this
newsgroup is to continue learning whatever I can, and sharing whatever I
can (not equal parts, obviously). It still doesn't piss me off any less
that the "expert" Mustang and classics shops have ****ed me over, or
that the "experts" in a given custom parts field have done the same.
I'm not exactly stupid, but no, I'm no engineer, and of course many of
my wrenching skills have been gained through messing up once or twice.

> As far as the magazines, yeah it would be nice if Mustang & Fords or
> Mustang Monthly would lower the boom on some of the crap out there.


Yes, and I'm sure the same can be said for all enthusiast mags. There
is effectively no accountability, so why care? Put together another
tech feature, mention/promote a few people you know (or know about) and
you've done your job. If the reader gets screwed, what are they going
to do? NOTHING. Feel stupid, and try again. I don't subscribe to them
any more. They don't deserve my money. My wife got me a gift
subscription, but honestly when this one arrives, I flip through it and
think, "so what bullshit are they peddling this month?"

My
> particular target would be Custom Autosound. Everything they make is
> junk, worse than the worst of 30 years ago. But you can wait till the
> sun cools for M&F or MM to tell the truth about Custom Autosound, and
> kiss goodbye their advertising dollars. As to that, see homily (a).
>


Right, I know what you're saying, and you're delicately telling me it's
too bad, but that's the way it is. I tend to have higher standards with
my work than half-truths, lies and trash. And I'm just incredibly
frustrated. And it's not just about the ****ing clutch, it's about
thing after thing after thing for years that I have had (and still have)
to re-do because of incompetence, malevolence, or apathy. Anything
anyone else has TOUCHED on this damned car, except the bodywork (which a
friend's father did) has been a freaking nightmare and cost three times
what it ever should have. There are very few exceptions.

And of course, I make mistakes, too. I guess the critical difference is
that I actually care. I care whether or not my wife and I go up in a
ball of flames, suddenly lose all brake pressure, break motor mounts,
snap a piston in half because the threaded rod for the air cleaner was
too short, snap clutch cables in traffic, or blow a diff. on the highway
because of bad seals. I am not exaggerating, and I could think of more
examples. This is not just about faulty parts. This is gross
incompetence, and booby traps. No, I didn't remove the ****ing threaded
rod to think, "could this thing, because it's actually too short, work
its way loose, go through the intake, hang a valve and break a piston in
half?" I checked these things to see that they were tight. Just 125
miles later, I was hearing my motor destroy itself, 125 miles yet to go
on a 95-degree day, and explaining what happened to my wife. When I
called the guy? "Not my ****ing problem, and if you claim an implied
warranty, I'll just countersue. Not like I haven't done it before." Click.

My neighbor is a 26-year veteran mechanic who has every certification in
the book, and trains newbies half his day. He swore and was ready to
call the highway patrol he was so mad after I said, "hey man, this
doesn't look right to me..." and he looked at it. "Discredits the whole
industry. This person should be in ****ing jail."

I was ignorant, so that's my fault. But my trust should not have been
betrayed time and again when I put it and my hard-earned money forth in
good faith. I don't know how these people sleep at night, raping
Shelbys for original parts and replacing them with garbage, rigging fuel
systems that could explode, and all the rest of their sleazy bullshit.
They should ALL be lined up and have Rusty Camshafts shoved deep, hard,
repeatedly, and without pre-lube right up their ****ing asses. And that
goes for those that knowingly promote these people also.


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-10-2005, 19:01   #9 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

Nosey wrote:
>>I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
>>about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
>>war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
>>has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
>>CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
>>sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
>>
>>I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
>>length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
>>thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
>>
>>Thoughts, anyone?

>
>
> Libel and slander only apply to knowingly making false statements. I see
> nothing wrong with you sharing a true story about first hand experience with
> a product or vendor. If it's a bad experience with someone that frequents
> this group it might escalate into a flame war. I think I'd avoid that.


Right, and they both have the difficult standard of "actual malice" to
prove in court. I'm just reasonably sure that some people would know
other people. This world is just not that big. I will just have to let
people draw inferences, and put 2+2 together, if they care to.

I've never had one of these experiences with a regular poster in this
group. I just imagine a few of them would take exception if I started
naming names and giving specifics. The bitter truth is still bitter.
And there are always two sides. I understand that you are an inventor,
and, from what I can gather, would dislike these sleazeballs yourself.
I understand you have had to "fight" them, to some extent, anyway.

I think I'm just going to leave it non-specific. It's not like I'm
saying anything novel here, I'm just very pissed off and tired of it
after many thousands and a good number of years. The thing is, they
don't even remember. They never cared to begin with. Well, I hope
karma catches up to them, because I sure as hell never will be able to.

Ultimately I can tell true stories and name names that might rile people
up, or I can just let it go, and fix the problems... but it's still so
far from right it makes me sick.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-11-2005, 10:01   #10 (permalink)
one80out@hotmail.com
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Re: Mustang stored for the Winter

I have no defense for your points. It's true, there are unscrupulous
and affirmatively evil people in the car hobby. What can you do?
Either opt out (scooters and buses anyone?) or do the best you can with
an imperfect world. As a response to your very strong and irrefutable
absolutism, that's pretty weak. But there it is. There are remedies
available -- lawsuits, reports to the Better Business Bureau or to
public law enforcement, word of mouth, on-line complaints -- but none
of them offer perfect relief. So you split the difference and move on.
I don't know what else to say.

Except that Spike ought to think twice before coming to the defense of
true pirates like the Custom Autosound people. While his comments come
from a good place -- "Hey, I'm getting good service from my CAS stuff,
maybe some of you other guys will too, so give it a try" -- that's a
very reckless message. If you don't believe me, check the Vintage
Mustang Forum. Dozens of slams on this crap. It's junk. Stay away.
Check out NPD, and other Mustang vendors: no more CAS crap, now NPD
carries only Jensen and Ken Harrison in the shaft mount category.

Speaking of which, there's no liability for defamation for true
statements or expressions of opinion. On the other hand, the "malice"
standard applies only to public figures. Private plaintiffs can
prevail even if the defendant did not know, or could not reasonably
have known, that his or her statement was false. In the case of an
internet forum, a plaintiff's biggest problem would be to prove a
monetary loss.

180 Out

Wound Up wrote:
> one80out@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Wound Up wrote:
> >
> >>Spike wrote:
> >>
> >>>Maybe people should post the parts and vendors they were both
> >>>satisfied with, and those they were not; including how good customer
> >>>service was, etc.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I have a few choice words I'd like to say, and a few stories to tell
> >>about shops and vendors. But I don't want to start a possible flame
> >>war, or be accused of libel. And I don't know exactly where the line
> >>has been previously drawn in this NG, ("you guys are on your own" says
> >>CJ), with regard to talking about shops and vendors that suck, and
> >>sharing experiences I've had with specific people.
> >>
> >>I'd love to. Believe me, I would exorciate one so-called expert at
> >>length, and tell stories of this person's butchery and fraud. But I
> >>thought I'd just make the general editorial comment instead.
> >>
> >>Thoughts, anyone?
> >>

> >
> > Just a couple of my own home-grown homilies: (a) People are as good as
> > they need to be; and (b) When you go with mods and aftermarket parts,
> > you bring it on yourself.
> >

>
> I agree with (a), generally speaking. As far as (b) goes, I will wait
> to see what you say.
>
> > What (a) means, is that while most people are of good will and all, the
> > system in which each man finds himself will require compromises, will
> > require results which standing alone are less than perfect. In the
> > case of aftermarket vendors, let's say somebody makes an utterly
> > bulletproof cable clutch kit, but the materials involved require a
> > retail price of $150 more than the competition. How long does he stay
> > in business? NOT VERY LONG! Just think about all these small
> > businesses, guys who've put everything they own on the line, their
> > families' welfare too; they GOT to keep the doors open.
> >

>
> It is true that market differentiation based on a quality product or
> service assumes you can be IN that market long enough to sell the
> quality product or service. So I see your point on that. Not everyone
> can absorb losses for years, or even months, before they get a foothold
> and some recognition.
>
> > What (b) means, is that you ARE your own R&D. My garage is full of
> > bits and pieces of ideas that seemed like a good idea at the time, but
> > they didn't work out. On the other hand, sometimes the part works
> > exactly as it should, first time out.
> >

>
> The problem I have is the -intent-. The intent is not to actually serve
> the market, it is to do it no service at all, or a disservice. At
> first, it probably wasn't, but these same people who got into the
> business because they were passionate hobbyists, professional mechanics,
> and/or engineers with good idea #1 often turn malevolent and evil
> because of not-too-bright idea #2, which is that good liars often make
> more money. Slick ads and bullshit sell shitty parts. Having or making
> buddies in hobbyist magazines helps, too. Have the mags heard
> complaints? Maybe, but we're all hapless idiots, the ones who complain,
> anyway, right? We don't know what we're doing. We can't read
> instructions. But some of us do. Who can tell? Who cares anyway?
> It's all a huge mess. There have been many days I've wished I never got
> into it this deep. But there are more days I assure myself that when I
> have what I want, it is going to be better, slicker, and more satisfying
> than I envisioned. And, it is going to be fast enough and brake hard
> enough to scare even hearty souls.
>
> I have learned a lot, true, and much of the reason I participate in this
> newsgroup is to continue learning whatever I can, and sharing whatever I
> can (not equal parts, obviously). It still doesn't piss me off any less
> that the "expert" Mustang and classics shops have ****ed me over, or
> that the "experts" in a given custom parts field have done the same.
> I'm not exactly stupid, but no, I'm no engineer, and of course many of
> my wrenching skills have been gained through messing up once or twice.
>
> > As far as the magazines, yeah it would be nice if Mustang & Fords or
> > Mustang Monthly would lower the boom on some of the crap out there.

>
> Yes, and I'm sure the same can be said for all enthusiast mags. There
> is effectively no accountability, so why care? Put together another
> tech feature, mention/promote a few people you know (or know about) and
> you've done your job. If the reader gets screwed, what are they going
> to do? NOTHING. Feel stupid, and try again. I don't subscribe to them
> any more. They don't deserve my money. My wife got me a gift
> subscription, but honestly when this one arrives, I flip through it and
> think, "so what bullshit are they peddling this month?"
>
> My
> > particular target would be Custom Autosound. Everything they make is
> > junk, worse than the worst of 30 years ago. But you can wait till the
> > sun cools for M&F or MM to tell the truth about Custom Autosound, and
> > kiss goodbye their advertising dollars. As to that, see homily (a).
> >

>
> Right, I know what you're saying, and you're delicately telling me it's
> too bad, but that's the way it is. I tend to have higher standards with
> my work than half-truths, lies and trash. And I'm just incredibly
> frustrated. And it's not just about the ****ing clutch, it's about
> thing after thing after thing for years that I have had (and still have)
> to re-do because of incompetence, malevolence, or apathy. Anything
> anyone else has TOUCHED on this damned car, except the bodywork (which a
> friend's father did) has been a freaking nightmare and cost three times
> what it ever should have. There are very few exceptions.
>
> And of course, I make mistakes, too. I guess the critical difference is
> that I actually care. I care whether or not my wife and I go up in a
> ball of flames, suddenly lose all brake pressure, break motor mounts,
> snap a piston in half because the threaded rod for the air cleaner was
> too short, snap clutch cables in traffic, or blow a diff. on the highway
> because of bad seals. I am not exaggerating, and I could think of more
> examples. This is not just about faulty parts. This is gross
> incompetence, and booby traps. No, I didn't remove the ****ing threaded
> rod to think, "could this thing, because it's actually too short, work
> its way loose, go through the intake, hang a valve and break a piston in
> half?" I checked these things to see that they were tight. Just 125
> miles later, I was hearing my motor destroy itself, 125 miles yet to go
> on a 95-degree day, and explaining what happened to my wife. When I
> called the guy? "Not my ****ing problem, and if you claim an implied
> warranty, I'll just countersue. Not like I haven't done it before." Click.
>
> My neighbor is a 26-year veteran mechanic who has every certification in
> the book, and trains newbies half his day. He swore and was ready to
> call the highway patrol he was so mad after I said, "hey man, this
> doesn't look right to me..." and he looked at it. "Discredits the whole
> industry. This person should be in ****ing jail."
>
> I was ignorant, so that's my fault. But my trust should not have been
> betrayed time and again when I put it and my hard-earned money forth in
> good faith. I don't know how these people sleep at night, raping
> Shelbys for original parts and replacing them with garbage, rigging fuel
> systems that could explode, and all the rest of their sleazy bullshit.
> They should ALL be lined up and have Rusty Camshafts shoved deep, hard,
> repeatedly, and without pre-lube right up their ****ing asses. And that
> goes for those that knowingly promote these people also.
>
>
> --
> Wound Up
> ThunderSnake #65


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