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Not to mention that they support forcing the Boy Scouts to admit gay
scout leaders. I guess that is what happens when you base your company in
San Francisco.
--
Larry S.
TS 52
"CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
news:090120061700089072%coiled@basking.hiss...
> In article <i9nwf.91$C1.8587@news.uswest.net>, Big Al <sal1@qwest.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "David M" <NOSPAM@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2006.01.08.21.52.46.645640@sled351...
> > > As long as people complain about the economy being bad,
> > > whilst loading their carts up with Vietnamese and Chinese-
> > > made goods at Wal-Mart, things won't get any better.
> > >
> > > Will Chinese-built cars sold in the Wal-Mart auto
> > > department be in our future?
> > >
> > > http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS....economy.reut/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > We are exporting our standard of living. And doing it about as fast as
we
> > can. Some countries are close to not accepting US currency. What does
that
> > tell us?
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
>
> It means we are ****ed, we need to be buying Chinese currency, and I
> have to find a Mandarin language CD on Ebay. I think our youngest
> generation better start learning how to build railroads and dry clean
> clothing.
>
> "Chop chop, round eye!!"
>
What really concerns me is the idea that the US, that's us folks, can not
back our money. We have no gold or silver standard. So were just printing
worthless paper. Wonder if we, as a country, are still solvent? Some
frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are we
going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
oil?
Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than we
think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do? We
take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
Big Al wrote:
> "CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
> news:090120061700089072%coiled@basking.hiss...
> > In article <i9nwf.91$C1.8587@news.uswest.net>, Big Al <sal1@qwest.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "David M" <NOSPAM@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:pan.2006.01.08.21.52.46.645640@sled351...
> > > > As long as people complain about the economy being bad,
> > > > whilst loading their carts up with Vietnamese and Chinese-
> > > > made goods at Wal-Mart, things won't get any better.
> > > >
> > > > Will Chinese-built cars sold in the Wal-Mart auto
> > > > department be in our future?
> > > >
> > > > http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS....economy.reut/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > We are exporting our standard of living. And doing it about as fast as
> we
> > > can. Some countries are close to not accepting US currency. What does
> that
> > > tell us?
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It means we are ****ed, we need to be buying Chinese currency, and I
> > have to find a Mandarin language CD on Ebay. I think our youngest
> > generation better start learning how to build railroads and dry clean
> > clothing.
> >
> > "Chop chop, round eye!!"
LOL was that Margaret Cho?
> >
>
> What really concerns me is the idea that the US, that's us folks, can not
> back our money. We have no gold or silver standard. So were just printing
> worthless paper. Wonder if we, as a country, are still solvent?
Of course we are. Just because our money is not tied to a single
specific commodity, it doesn't mean it's worthless. It's still a hard
currency, backed by capital in the form of the GDP, backed by
everything we produce. Why is the Dow flirting with 11,000 for the
first time since 9/11? Not because it's wholly unfounded.
Some
> frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
> Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
> service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are we
> going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
> oil?
>
This last question is the most troubling of all for the next 100 years
> Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
> longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
>
We're walling in an Iraqi town with sand to avoid suicide bombers...
who will just keep coming, and coming and blowing themselves and us and
innocent civillians up so long as we occupy Iraq. How many Palestinian
bombers do you hear about these days, since Israel backed off???
> Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
> nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
> had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than we
> think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
> many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
> need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
> springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
> that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob. I'll be better
acclimated to the "chop chop, round eye" experience to occur when I
NEVER retire.
Why does the slapped-together thing cost so much to begin with? Could
it possibly be that the short-sighted views of the Big Three and the
UAW for the past xxx years are now screwing everyone else? No, it
couldn't be. They are equally culpable, despite the propagandists'
views.
We
> take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
> started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
> notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
> Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
> cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
> happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
> designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
>
Why did the US auto industry emerge from the awfulness of the 1970s
with better cars? Why are our cars as "good" as they are even now?
Competition from Japan. Look at French cars. The French have been so
ptooey on youey with buying anything but their own pieces of crap, that
they still are, largely, pieces of crap.
True competition in the marketplace is the only way we have ever gotten
better, and it is the only way any industry ever WILL get better. So
think carefully before you wish for every US person to buy only US
things. You might end up like the French.
In article <WhSwf.17$2Z3.456@news.uswest.net>, Big Al <sal1@qwest.net>
wrote:
>
> What really concerns me is the idea that the US, that's us folks, can not
> back our money. We have no gold or silver standard. So were just printing
> worthless paper. Wonder if we, as a country, are still solvent? Some
> frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
> Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
> service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are we
> going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
> oil?
OK, let's say we are going to hell in a handbasket, which is what
I've been saying since the Internet was created. What can you and I
invest in to hedge against the trashing of the dollar? If China is
gonna be top dog, I would want to invest in China (buy yuan?), or
alternately, buy gold so my dollar doesn't go down with the ship.
Ideas? I'm not an economist.
>
> Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
> longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
What we are accomplishing is filling the pockets of the politicians
and defense contractors who live for this kind of thing. I'm not going
to go off on a political wingding, but I have two comments the readers
here can ponder. "Republicans vs. Democrats", and "Divide and Conquer".
Hmmmm.
>
> Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
> nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
> had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than we
> think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
> many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
> need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
> springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
> that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do? We
> take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
> started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
> notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
> Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
> cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
> happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
> designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
I still think there's a game plan that involves Mexico for average
Joes like us. I'd like to find out more about the property ownership
thing.
But you are right. We are seeing the beginning of the dissolution of
the middle class here. You are 60 and I'm around 10 years behind, but I
think we shall see a marked change in our society within our lives.
When we were growing up it was ingrained in us that America was the
best country to live in. It could be that may not be so anymore.
Whatever happens with China and other countries who will undoubtably
join the feeding frenzy, things just aren't as peachy as they used to
be. Everyone is too tense these days. Too much negativism on so many
different levels is taking a toll. Each successive generation is more
stressed than the previous. Fat is epidemic. Pharmaceuticals are
brainwashing people nonstop. We are obsessed with gizmos that distract
us from the Big Picture.
Is it time to rethink this idea of the U.S. as Nirvana? Perhaps.
Sometimes, the idea of cashing out here and living on a beach in a
place where the only Net is the one the fisherman uses sounds pretty
damn good.
In article <1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Wound Up <jello72@iwon.com> wrote:
> Big Al wrote:
> > "CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
> > > It means we are ****ed, we need to be buying Chinese currency, and I
> > > have to find a Mandarin language CD on Ebay. I think our youngest
> > > generation better start learning how to build railroads and dry clean
> > > clothing.
> > >
> > > "Chop chop, round eye!!"
>
> LOL was that Margaret Cho?
No, that's every Chinese foreman who'll be whipping those lazy white
kids who don't pound a hundred railroad spikes an hour. The year? 2016.
>
> > >
> >
> > What really concerns me is the idea that the US, that's us folks, can not
> > back our money. We have no gold or silver standard. So were just printing
> > worthless paper. Wonder if we, as a country, are still solvent?
>
> Of course we are. Just because our money is not tied to a single
> specific commodity, it doesn't mean it's worthless. It's still a hard
> currency, backed by capital in the form of the GDP, backed by
> everything we produce. Why is the Dow flirting with 11,000 for the
> first time since 9/11? Not because it's wholly unfounded.
And who is it, in the back room of the Stock Exchange, that plays
the game of making stocks go up and down? Hmm?
>
> Some
> > frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
> > Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
> > service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are we
> > going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
> > oil?
> >
>
> This last question is the most troubling of all for the next 100 years
We don't need to compete. We partner up with Mexico. Or move there.
>
> > Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
> > longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
> >
>
> We're walling in an Iraqi town with sand to avoid suicide bombers...
> who will just keep coming, and coming and blowing themselves and us and
> innocent civillians up so long as we occupy Iraq. How many Palestinian
> bombers do you hear about these days, since Israel backed off???
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/wl_nm/iraq_berm_dc
>
> > Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
> > nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
> > had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than we
> > think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
> > many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
> > need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
> > springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> > Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
> > that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
>
> ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
> is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
> roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
> betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
> its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
> death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob. I'll be better
> acclimated to the "chop chop, round eye" experience to occur when I
> NEVER retire.
>
> Why does the slapped-together thing cost so much to begin with? Could
> it possibly be that the short-sighted views of the Big Three and the
> UAW for the past xxx years are now screwing everyone else? No, it
> couldn't be. They are equally culpable, despite the propagandists'
> views.
>
> We
> > take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
> > started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
> > notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
> > Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
> > cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
> > happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
> > designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
> >
>
> Why did the US auto industry emerge from the awfulness of the 1970s
> with better cars? Why are our cars as "good" as they are even now?
> Competition from Japan. Look at French cars. The French have been so
> ptooey on youey with buying anything but their own pieces of crap, that
> they still are, largely, pieces of crap.
>
> True competition in the marketplace is the only way we have ever gotten
> better, and it is the only way any industry ever WILL get better. So
> think carefully before you wish for every US person to buy only US
> things. You might end up like the French.
I disagree here. The cars we make now cost too much to buy, have too
many "safety" features, have too many things that need fixing after the
warranty dissolves, and are boring as shit to look at. Plus, they wind
up in the junkyards far sooner than their predecessors. Better cars
today? Not a chance.
Let's look at the 50's and 60's cars. Still viable, restorable, fun,
and simple to operate half a century later. If Detroit built them the
same way today, with better rustproofing, they would still be on the
street 50 years from now.
Too much regulation, too much technology, too much shit.
CobraJet
>
> --
> Wound Up
> MBASnake #broke as hell
>
CobraJet wrote:
> In article <1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Wound Up <jello72@iwon.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Big Al wrote:
>>
>>>"CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
>>
>
>>>> It means we are ****ed, we need to be buying Chinese currency, and I
>>>>have to find a Mandarin language CD on Ebay. I think our youngest
>>>>generation better start learning how to build railroads and dry clean
>>>>clothing.
>>>>
>>>> "Chop chop, round eye!!"
>>>
>>LOL was that Margaret Cho?
>
>
> No, that's every Chinese foreman who'll be whipping those lazy white
> kids who don't pound a hundred railroad spikes an hour. The year? 2016.
>
I knew THAT. Who first predicted it? =)
>
>>>What really concerns me is the idea that the US, that's us folks, can not
>>>back our money. We have no gold or silver standard. So were just printing
>>>worthless paper. Wonder if we, as a country, are still solvent?
>>
>>Of course we are. Just because our money is not tied to a single
>>specific commodity, it doesn't mean it's worthless. It's still a hard
>>currency, backed by capital in the form of the GDP, backed by
>>everything we produce. Why is the Dow flirting with 11,000 for the
>>first time since 9/11? Not because it's wholly unfounded.
>
>
> And who is it, in the back room of the Stock Exchange, that plays
> the game of making stocks go up and down? Hmm?
>
No one has that much pull. Of course, we can all point to Enron and
WorldCom, but big money = big corruption. On the whole? Too many
diverse interests and selfish motives.
>
>>Some
>>
>>>frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
>>>Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
>>>service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are we
>>>going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
>>>oil?
>>>
>>
>>This last question is the most troubling of all for the next 100 years
>
>
> We don't need to compete. We partner up with Mexico. Or move there.
>
I don't like Pemex gas.
>
>>>Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
>>>longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
>>>
>>
>>We're walling in an Iraqi town with sand to avoid suicide bombers...
>>who will just keep coming, and coming and blowing themselves and us and
>>innocent civillians up so long as we occupy Iraq. How many Palestinian
>>bombers do you hear about these days, since Israel backed off???
>>
>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/wl_nm/iraq_berm_dc
>>
>>
>>>Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
>>>nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
>>>had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than we
>>>think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
>>>many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
>>>need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
>>>springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
>>>Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
>>>that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
>>
>>ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
>>is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
>>roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
>>betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
>>its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
>>death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob. I'll be better
>>acclimated to the "chop chop, round eye" experience to occur when I
>>NEVER retire.
>>
>>Why does the slapped-together thing cost so much to begin with? Could
>>it possibly be that the short-sighted views of the Big Three and the
>>UAW for the past xxx years are now screwing everyone else? No, it
>>couldn't be. They are equally culpable, despite the propagandists'
>>views.
>>
>>We
>>
>>>take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
>>>started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
>>>notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
>>>Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
>>>cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
>>>happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
>>>designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
>>>
>>
>>Why did the US auto industry emerge from the awfulness of the 1970s
>>with better cars? Why are our cars as "good" as they are even now?
>>Competition from Japan. Look at French cars. The French have been so
>>ptooey on youey with buying anything but their own pieces of crap, that
>>they still are, largely, pieces of crap.
>>
>>True competition in the marketplace is the only way we have ever gotten
>>better, and it is the only way any industry ever WILL get better. So
>>think carefully before you wish for every US person to buy only US
>>things. You might end up like the French.
>
>
> I disagree here. The cars we make now cost too much to buy, have too
> many "safety" features, have too many things that need fixing after the
> warranty dissolves, and are boring as shit to look at. Plus, they wind
> up in the junkyards far sooner than their predecessors. Better cars
> today? Not a chance.
>
Mmm. Yes, everyone needed seven airbags, and all the other ridiculously
expensive shit that's supposed to take the place of actual skill, very
true. The only thing I kinda like is antilock brakes. I put "good" in
quotes because they ain't that good. But they sure are boring.
> Let's look at the 50's and 60's cars. Still viable, restorable, fun,
> and simple to operate half a century later. If Detroit built them the
> same way today, with better rustproofing, they would still be on the
> street 50 years from now.
>
> Too much regulation, too much technology, too much shit.
>
Absolutely. Long live the Golden Age!
And if I need a starter in Butthole, KS? Guess what - Joe Bob's has one
for an old Mustang, but not for a Scion XBADSXDC (whatever the HELL
those little nightmares actually are).
--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65
See the official AHPBBFM posting rules, links repository,
member map and more at http://tinyurl.com/9yulk.
In article <43C47D55.1010308@your.disposal>, Wound Up
<none@your.disposal> wrote:
> CobraJet wrote:
> > In article <1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > Wound Up <jello72@iwon.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>"CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
> > And who is it, in the back room of the Stock Exchange, that plays
> > the game of making stocks go up and down? Hmm?
> >
>
> No one has that much pull.
How do you know? I mean, really? What makes stocks go up and down? I
don't mean things that "appear" to affect stocks. I mean, *who* punches
in the numbers? This thing does not have a mind of its own. It is run
by humans with an agenda. How can it be otherwise?
> Of course, we can all point to Enron and
> WorldCom, but big money = big corruption. On the whole? Too many
> diverse interests and selfish motives.
>
> >
> >>Some
> >>
> >>>frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
> >>>Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
> >>>service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are
> >>>we
> >>>going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
> >>>oil?
> >>>
> >>
> >>This last question is the most troubling of all for the next 100 years
> >
> >
> > We don't need to compete. We partner up with Mexico. Or move there.
> >
>
> I don't like Pemex gas.
You use it often, do you? You know the possibilities of an E85
market in a country with that much farm land?
>
> >
> >>>Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
> >>>longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
> >>>
> >>
> >>We're walling in an Iraqi town with sand to avoid suicide bombers...
> >>who will just keep coming, and coming and blowing themselves and us and
> >>innocent civillians up so long as we occupy Iraq. How many Palestinian
> >>bombers do you hear about these days, since Israel backed off???
> >>
> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/wl_nm/iraq_berm_dc
> >>
> >>
> >>>Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
> >>>nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
> >>>had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than
> >>>we
> >>>think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
> >>>many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
> >>>need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
> >>>springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> >>>Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
> >>>that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
> >>
> >>ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
> >>is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
> >>roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
> >>betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
> >>its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
> >>death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob. I'll be better
> >>acclimated to the "chop chop, round eye" experience to occur when I
> >>NEVER retire.
> >>
> >>Why does the slapped-together thing cost so much to begin with? Could
> >>it possibly be that the short-sighted views of the Big Three and the
> >>UAW for the past xxx years are now screwing everyone else? No, it
> >>couldn't be. They are equally culpable, despite the propagandists'
> >>views.
> >>
> >>We
> >>
> >>>take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
> >>>started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
> >>>notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
> >>>Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
> >>>cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
> >>>happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
> >>>designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Why did the US auto industry emerge from the awfulness of the 1970s
> >>with better cars? Why are our cars as "good" as they are even now?
> >>Competition from Japan. Look at French cars. The French have been so
> >>ptooey on youey with buying anything but their own pieces of crap, that
> >>they still are, largely, pieces of crap.
> >>
> >>True competition in the marketplace is the only way we have ever gotten
> >>better, and it is the only way any industry ever WILL get better. So
> >>think carefully before you wish for every US person to buy only US
> >>things. You might end up like the French.
> >
> >
> > I disagree here. The cars we make now cost too much to buy, have too
> > many "safety" features, have too many things that need fixing after the
> > warranty dissolves, and are boring as shit to look at. Plus, they wind
> > up in the junkyards far sooner than their predecessors. Better cars
> > today? Not a chance.
> >
>
> Mmm. Yes, everyone needed seven airbags, and all the other ridiculously
> expensive shit that's supposed to take the place of actual skill, very
> true. The only thing I kinda like is antilock brakes. I put "good" in
> quotes because they ain't that good. But they sure are boring.
Antilocks suck. I don't like the ones in my Vic.
>
> > Let's look at the 50's and 60's cars. Still viable, restorable, fun,
> > and simple to operate half a century later. If Detroit built them the
> > same way today, with better rustproofing, they would still be on the
> > street 50 years from now.
> >
> > Too much regulation, too much technology, too much shit.
> >
>
> Absolutely. Long live the Golden Age!
>
> And if I need a starter in Butthole, KS? Guess what - Joe Bob's has one
> for an old Mustang, but not for a Scion XBADSXDC (whatever the HELL
> those little nightmares actually are).
Exactly. I say boot the foreign interest (including Daimler) and go
back in history for the game plan.
CobraJet wrote:
> In article <43C47D55.1010308@your.disposal>, Wound Up
> <none@your.disposal> wrote:
>
>
>>CobraJet wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>>Wound Up <jello72@iwon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>
>>>>>"CobraJet" <coiled@basking.hiss> wrote in message
>>>>
>
>>> And who is it, in the back room of the Stock Exchange, that plays
>>>the game of making stocks go up and down? Hmm?
>>>
>>
>>No one has that much pull.
>
>
> How do you know? I mean, really? What makes stocks go up and down?
Mostly, it's institutional investors of many kinds, and from many, many
camps and nations that have portfolios in US stocks. They are just too
many in number with too many positions and immediate concerns to
collude. Some just have limits that dump 100,000 or 1,000,000 shares on
the market once a given equity hits a certain price. Then, other people
see it drop, go "oh shit", dump THEIRS, and the savvy ones might sit
back and snap them up on the cheap for a quick buck. That's why it's so
volatile. Options players and day traders are in that mix, too,
watching, and waiting. It can snowball, but typically, in a liquid
equity, it just jumps around a lot. Churning the market on purpose to
make commissions off raw amounts of trades and market-timing are some of
the sleazy ways brokers and dealers skim what they shouldn't.
Also, a lot of big, legal, insider trades happen. Amazingly, Bill Gates
will dump 5,000,000 shares of Microsoft on the market, and no one says
boo. "Buying something today, Bill?"
I
> don't mean things that "appear" to affect stocks. I mean, *who* punches
> in the numbers? This thing does not have a mind of its own. It is run
> by humans with an agenda. How can it be otherwise?
>
It is, but as I said, some of it is truly automatic. This is true with
commodities and debentures as well. "Sell / buy at xxx". They may have
a man on the floor, but that's what role he's fulfulling. There is an
agenda behind it but a lot of it these days is simple butt-covering and
profit-taking when things tick upwards for a bit. "Shit, I can make
five grand in five minutes, why not" and the stock may close dead even.
>
>>Of course, we can all point to Enron and
>>WorldCom, but big money = big corruption. On the whole? Too many
>>diverse interests and selfish motives.
>>
>>
>>>>Some
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>frigging mess we're getting into. Exporting our manufacturing capabilities.
>>>>>Importing everything we use. The politicians tell us we're changing to a
>>>>>service oriented economy. But we're shipping our money overseas. What are
>>>>>we
>>>>>going to use? How the hell are we going to compete with India and China for
>>>>>oil?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This last question is the most troubling of all for the next 100 years
>>>
>>>
>>> We don't need to compete. We partner up with Mexico. Or move there.
>>>
>>
>>I don't like Pemex gas.
>
>
> You use it often, do you? You know the possibilities of an E85
> market in a country with that much farm land?
>
I pour it on my Cheerios. I've just heard it's crap. I have long been
a proponent of E85. Plowing all that grain into storage, subsidies,
what a freaking waste!
>
>>>>>Plus we have these air heads running "the war." WW2 took about 10 months
>>>>>longer than we've been over in Iraq. What the hell are we accomplishing?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We're walling in an Iraqi town with sand to avoid suicide bombers...
>>>>who will just keep coming, and coming and blowing themselves and us and
>>>>innocent civillians up so long as we occupy Iraq. How many Palestinian
>>>>bombers do you hear about these days, since Israel backed off???
>>>>
>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060110/wl_nm/iraq_berm_dc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Read somewhere yesterday that Chrysler is about to overtake Ford as our
>>>>>nations second largest car maker. With the trouble GM is having our country
>>>>>had better get back at it or we'll be out of the car business sooner than
>>>>>we
>>>>>think. The very business that built our manufacturing power and created so
>>>>>many jobs. Any idea how many small businesses depend on the auto makers? We
>>>>>need our auto industry to stay strong. The Jap assembly plants that are
>>>>>springing up here don't help us. It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
>>>>>Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an hour
>>>>>that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
>>>>
>>>>ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
>>>>is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
>>>>roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
>>>>betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
>>>>its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
>>>>death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob. I'll be better
>>>>acclimated to the "chop chop, round eye" experience to occur when I
>>>>NEVER retire.
>>>>
>>>>Why does the slapped-together thing cost so much to begin with? Could
>>>>it possibly be that the short-sighted views of the Big Three and the
>>>>UAW for the past xxx years are now screwing everyone else? No, it
>>>>couldn't be. They are equally culpable, despite the propagandists'
>>>>views.
>>>>
>>>>We
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>take those jobs to Mexico where they can do it for $150 or so. Since they
>>>>>started building everything down there and saving all that money did you
>>>>>notice the price of cars going down? What goes down is the number of
>>>>>Americans that can afford to buy them. Now the Chinese are going to sell us
>>>>>cars. Another chunk of the US manufacture's money going away. While this is
>>>>>happening our younger generation is busy playing video games and buying
>>>>>designer clothes and shoes made anywhere but here.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why did the US auto industry emerge from the awfulness of the 1970s
>>>>with better cars? Why are our cars as "good" as they are even now?
>>>>Competition from Japan. Look at French cars. The French have been so
>>>>ptooey on youey with buying anything but their own pieces of crap, that
>>>>they still are, largely, pieces of crap.
>>>>
>>>>True competition in the marketplace is the only way we have ever gotten
>>>>better, and it is the only way any industry ever WILL get better. So
>>>>think carefully before you wish for every US person to buy only US
>>>>things. You might end up like the French.
>>>
>>>
>>> I disagree here. The cars we make now cost too much to buy, have too
>>>many "safety" features, have too many things that need fixing after the
>>>warranty dissolves, and are boring as shit to look at. Plus, they wind
>>>up in the junkyards far sooner than their predecessors. Better cars
>>>today? Not a chance.
>>>
>>
>>Mmm. Yes, everyone needed seven airbags, and all the other ridiculously
>>expensive shit that's supposed to take the place of actual skill, very
>>true. The only thing I kinda like is antilock brakes. I put "good" in
>>quotes because they ain't that good. But they sure are boring.
>
>
> Antilocks suck. I don't like the ones in my Vic.
>
I think they're ok for panicky drivers on slick roads who otherwise
would just hammer the brakes, and slide straight ahead. The ones on my
Cougar sucked, too, when they actually worked. I felt like, no, I wanna
do that.
>
>>> Let's look at the 50's and 60's cars. Still viable, restorable, fun,
>>>and simple to operate half a century later. If Detroit built them the
>>>same way today, with better rustproofing, they would still be on the
>>>street 50 years from now.
>>>
>>> Too much regulation, too much technology, too much shit.
>>>
>>
>>Absolutely. Long live the Golden Age!
>>
>>And if I need a starter in Butthole, KS? Guess what - Joe Bob's has one
>>for an old Mustang, but not for a Scion XBADSXDC (whatever the HELL
>>those little nightmares actually are).
>
>
> Exactly. I say boot the foreign interest (including Daimler) and go
> back in history for the game plan.
>
> CobraJet
>
--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65
See the official AHPBBFM posting rules, links repository,
member map and more at http://tinyurl.com/9yulk.
"Wound Up" <jello72@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Big Al wrote:
> > It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> > Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an
hour
> > that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
>
> ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
> is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
> roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
> betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
> its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
> death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob.
Hey, I said "If." they were paid $50 an hour. What ever the worker's hourly
pay is his cost the automaker $50 or more per hour. Don't forget health
care, taxes, vacation, sick pay and so on.
Big Al wrote:
> "Wound Up" <jello72@iwon.com> wrote in message
> news:1136917074.066719.198490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Big Al wrote:
> > > It takes 23 man hours to assemble a
> > > Chrysler mini-van. Think about that. If the workers were paid $50 an
> hour
> > > that's only $1150 wages for a $20,000 plus vehicle. So what do we do?
> >
> > ONLY $50 / hour? Should they get $100 / hour? Man, my Master's degree
> > is suddenly seeming like a complete waste of time, seeing as I make
> > roughly half that, and it cost me forty grand. But screw the
> > betterment of society, and my (gulp) future children, and education for
> > its own sake; I should be working the line for fifty an hour, making
> > death threats at "scabs" and join the uneducated mob.
>
> Hey, I said "If." they were paid $50 an hour. What ever the worker's hourly
> pay is his cost the automaker $50 or more per hour. Don't forget health
> care, taxes, vacation, sick pay and so on.
>
Ok, didn't see that. And yes, overhead is significant. The pension
issue is just a damned shame, but I wonder if that was a somewhat empty
promise all along by the automakers.
I just have a problem with those union wages that are based on
intimidation tactics, and are tied to organized crime. I know people
work their butts off on these lines, and it's painful, hard work; my
father-in-law and "grandfather-in-law" both did it, one for many years.
I do respect that. I do not enjoy the fact that everything I buy that
is union-made is perhaps 50% more expensive than the fair market value
would have it. If we let the market determine these wages, they sure
as hell wouldn't be $30/hour. I do not and never will believe in
artificial price ceilings or supports, with the the exception of
minimum wage. Sort of a double standard but there's a basic
subsistance limit we can't ignore.
