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Old 01-07-2006, 18:01   #11 (permalink)
CobraJet
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Understeer and fixes

In article <MnWvf.3712$H37.582022@news20.bellglobal.com>, fast Ed
<fast_ed@spamania.ca> wrote:

> Keep in mind that genuine performance 15" tires (at least ones sized to fit
> larger cars) are getting very scarce these days. I don't think the 255-55
> size you're thinking of even exists. There used to be some decent 245-50-15
> and 265-50-15 tires available, which were a good fit for 15 x 7 and a15 x 8
> on a classic. BFG Comp T/A, GY Eagle VR could be had, but now it's mostly
> "cruiser" stuff like Radial T/As, or a drag radial tire. Dunlop still has
> 245-50-15 in the Sport 8000 line, which is a decent tire.
>
> I've been looking at wheel and tire options for my Cougar, and am running
> into the same thing. I scrapped the idea of running 18" Marauder wheels,
> and am considering lots of other ideas. If you have the budget to up to
> 16", your choice expands quite a bit. With 16 x 8 all around, you can go
> with 245-50-16 at all 4 corners, or a 245-50 / 255-50 staggered combo. Lots
> of good stuff available in those sizes. I'd say to stay pretty close with
> front and rear tire sizes. Remember that adding grip to the rear (with
> larger tires), is going to increase understeer. Great tires will make the
> most difference to your car IMO. I'd rather have a car with good tires and
> shit suspension, than the other way around.
>
> As far as the suspension goes, Mike covered the basics. It depends on your
> budget really. My Cougar has KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, generic 620 lb. front
> springs, 1" control arm relocate, and stock rear springs with lowering
> blocks. Rear shackle bushings are being replaced this spring. The car is a
> decent handler, other than the random worn-out factory power steering. LOL
> It currently has 225-60-15 Firehawk SZ50 tires (Firestone's old top line
> Z-rated performance model), mounted on 15 x 7 69 Shelby wheels. I was
> trying to find a source for re-rimming or replacing the Shelby wheels, to go
> up to 16" or 17". But so far, all I can find is 15 x 7 or 15 x 8. I'd
> happily go with the 15 x 8, if there was any tire choice left.


In the old days, the local police used to always check your tires
for legality since so many guys ran wrinkle walls and such. These days,
I just don't see them doing that anymore, especially with all the
lo-profile stuff and whatnot floating around. I suppose, if someone
really needed to have sticky tires for dry pavement use, you could
probably get away with specialty stuff.

https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

CobraJet
>
>
> cheers
> TS # 27
>
>
>
> "66 6F HCS" <69ta_mustang@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:zu6dnVxrI62MqiLenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >
> > "66 6F HCS" <69ta_mustang@comcast.net> wrote
> > >Currently on the car are 15x7 Minilite copies from WesternWheel. I will

> be
> > >running 235/60's on all corners. however right now there are 225/65 on

> the
> > >front and 245/60 on the rear.

> >
> > Crap, I just remembered they're 15x7 in front and 15x8 in back. Dump the
> > 235/60 all around deal. I'll probably end up with 255/55's in back and
> > 235/60's on front. I had 295/50's in back at one point and they rubbed
> > REALLY bad, but they HOOKED!
> >
> > The suspension is bone stock although I'm going to put KYB's all around

> and
> > am considering the Shelby drop. Stock front sway bar, no rear sway bar.
> > --
> > Scott W.
> > '66 HCS Mustang 289
> > '68 Ranchero 500 302
> > '69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
> > ThunderSnake #57
> > http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/
> >
> >

>
>


--
Spokesmodel for Arrogant Bastard Ale
 
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Old 01-07-2006, 19:01   #12 (permalink)
Spike
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Understeer and fixes

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:36:05 -0700, "66 6F HCS"
<69ta_mustang@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"66 6F HCS" <69ta_mustang@comcast.net> wrote
>>Currently on the car are 15x7 Minilite copies from WesternWheel. I will be
>>running 235/60's on all corners. however right now there are 225/65 on the
>>front and 245/60 on the rear.

>
>Crap, I just remembered they're 15x7 in front and 15x8 in back. Dump the
>235/60 all around deal. I'll probably end up with 255/55's in back and
>235/60's on front. I had 295/50's in back at one point and they rubbed
>REALLY bad, but they HOOKED!
>
>The suspension is bone stock although I'm going to put KYB's all around and
>am considering the Shelby drop. Stock front sway bar, no rear sway bar.

check out the fitment chart at www.vintagewheelworks.com...
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
 
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Old 01-07-2006, 20:01   #13 (permalink)
fast Ed
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Understeer and fixes

For a car that wasn't going to see a lot of miles, that's a possibility.
The Hoosier tires would wear pretty quickly on the street. The other issue
is that to reduce weight, the race tires like that aren't built to take the
same kind of impacts that street tires are, leaving you more suspectible to
having a puncture or other damage if you were to run them on the street.

Would be a lot of fun blasting around on them however!!

When my OT 5.0L Mustang was my only summer car, and also my track car, I
would always be driving around on the street with shaved DOT R-compound
radial tires. Back then (late 80s / early 90s), the R-compound stuff still
had a regular tread pattern usually, they were just a soft compound / stiff
sidewall version of the various manufacturers' ultra performance street
tire. Some of the cornering speeds I used to go at on the street were
pretty scary in retrospect. The funny thing was, no tire squeal either. If
you were making R-compound tires squeal around a curve on the street, you
were probably about to crash. ; )


cheers
TS # 27



CobraJet wrote:
>>

> In the old days, the local police used to always check your tires
> for legality since so many guys ran wrinkle walls and such. These
> days,
> I just don't see them doing that anymore, especially with all the
> lo-profile stuff and whatnot floating around. I suppose, if someone
> really needed to have sticky tires for dry pavement use, you could
> probably get away with specialty stuff.
>
> https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm
>
> CobraJet
>>
>>



 
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Old 01-12-2006, 16:01   #14 (permalink)
66 6F HCS
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Understeer and fixes (long) review

I appreciate the help guys. I do have a monte carlo bar and export brace
installed, though I didn't drive the car hardly at all before I installed
them. I'm not sure what they did or how much they helped. I bought the good
Scott Drake export brace and not the cheaper thinner version without the
deep "waves" in it. The monte carlo bar is the one with the curve in it to
go around the dizzy. I already have KYB gas-a-justs for the front, I
honestly can't afford the Edelbrock IAS's though I WISH I could.

I wasn't thinking of going with the 620 springs in front. I was thinking the
bigger 750's or whatever it is. But I know that someone makes spec'd springs
for the mustang based on what would have come from the factory. Is it
correct that Ford had different springs for every car with every engine
variant. That's gotta be hundreds of different springs. Maybe prings for a
'69 convertible with AT and a 428? I'm assuming those would be the stiffest
from the factory. Would this hold true at all 4 corners? What about the 5
leaf rears from Mustangs Plus and their like.

Cash is a big issue for me and a neg wedge kit is out of the question. Is
the 1" Shelby drop really THAT big an improvement? I need to replace my
upper control arm ball joints anyway, so they have to be yanked for rebuild,
so it would be a good time to do the drop when I have them off. How would
you suggest the alignment be setup with or without the drop. I've heard
that -1 camber will help cornering but is a bigger PITA in slow turns.

This car is going to be 99.9% street and .1% race. It'll see the quarter a
few times in the summer, but rarely, and the circle drag races sound cool
since it's a heads up single lap around a 3/4 mile oval track. Only 2 turns.
I've thought of trying it just to see what it's like. My motor builder
REALLY wants me to try it just to see what it'll do, and cause he built a
good number of the race winning engines racing on that same track in the
different NASCAR series. From the "Legends" to the NASCAR West late model
series. He's got a reputation to uphold in the area as one of the best
builders and a few wins in this completely amateur race series would put him
in good for even more money next season. I'm sure you know how it works.
Plus it sounds like a lot of fun and more fun than a straight quarter mile.
I just don't want to throw this beast into a wall after all I've dumped into
it.

This car is a PITA on the street. sometimes when I'm trying to turn through
an intersection, I've almost ended up on the sidewalk a couple times since
it pushes so badly, and the "Swedish Flick" is frowned upon on public roads;
at least around here anyways. Heh :)

I currently have two sets of wheels I could use with this car. I have a set
of Minilite copies from Western Wheel. A pair of 15x7 and a pair of 15x8. I
also have a set of Centerline Convo Pro's. All are 15x7. The fake minilites
looks WAYYYYY better than the Convo Pro's, but I can't afford another set of
matching wheels. I'd like tires that'll grip well, but won't completely kill
my low speed issues since I don't have PS. Since this will be mostly street,
should I stay with the skinnier tires (225 to 235)? At least on front. I
know the more rubber to the ground in front the less understeer will be a
problem. But the wider I go the harder the wheel will be to turn and the car
will "track" on the highways in the ruts.

I have a complete PS system for a '69 from the pump to the "rack" or
whatever it was called back then, including drum brake spindles. I also have
the drop bracket for exhaust clearance. Should I go ahead and install this
system? Would there be issues using the non PS steering box with the PS
setup? I've heard there was no difference between the PS and non-PS steering
boxes in '69. True???
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/


 
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Old 01-12-2006, 18:01   #15 (permalink)
Spike
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Understeer and fixes (long) review

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:26:06 -0700, "66 6F HCS"
<69ta_mustang@comcast.net> wrote:

>I appreciate the help guys. I do have a monte carlo bar and export brace
>installed, though I didn't drive the car hardly at all before I installed
>them. I'm not sure what they did or how much they helped. I bought the good
>Scott Drake export brace and not the cheaper thinner version without the
>deep "waves" in it. The monte carlo bar is the one with the curve in it to
>go around the dizzy. I already have KYB gas-a-justs for the front, I
>honestly can't afford the Edelbrock IAS's though I WISH I could.
>
>I wasn't thinking of going with the 620 springs in front. I was thinking the
>bigger 750's or whatever it is. But I know that someone makes spec'd springs
>for the mustang based on what would have come from the factory. Is it
>correct that Ford had different springs for every car with every engine
>variant. That's gotta be hundreds of different springs. Maybe prings for a
>'69 convertible with AT and a 428? I'm assuming those would be the stiffest
>from the factory. Would this hold true at all 4 corners? What about the 5
>leaf rears from Mustangs Plus and their like.

PST (Performance Suspension Parts) for springs, etc. The main thing
is that new springs are not compressed with age, so you will have
original ride height back again if you go stock.
>
>Cash is a big issue for me and a neg wedge kit is out of the question. Is
>the 1" Shelby drop really THAT big an improvement? I need to replace my
>upper control arm ball joints anyway, so they have to be yanked for rebuild,
>so it would be a good time to do the drop when I have them off. How would
>you suggest the alignment be setup with or without the drop. I've heard
>that -1 camber will help cornering but is a bigger PITA in slow turns.

The template for the Cobra Drop is a free (IIRC) download of the
template from Tony Branda. The template will show you where the new
holes will go. The main thing is to use a solid plate to run the bolts
through in order to strengthen the mount location and avoid stress
cracks. Negative wedge kits didn't exist back when Shelby was doing
them.
>
>This car is going to be 99.9% street and .1% race. It'll see the quarter a
>few times in the summer, but rarely, and the circle drag races sound cool
>since it's a heads up single lap around a 3/4 mile oval track. Only 2 turns.
>I've thought of trying it just to see what it's like. My motor builder
>REALLY wants me to try it just to see what it'll do, and cause he built a
>good number of the race winning engines racing on that same track in the
>different NASCAR series. From the "Legends" to the NASCAR West late model
>series. He's got a reputation to uphold in the area as one of the best
>builders and a few wins in this completely amateur race series would put him
>in good for even more money next season. I'm sure you know how it works.
>Plus it sounds like a lot of fun and more fun than a straight quarter mile.
>I just don't want to throw this beast into a wall after all I've dumped into
>it.
>
>This car is a PITA on the street. sometimes when I'm trying to turn through
>an intersection, I've almost ended up on the sidewalk a couple times since
>it pushes so badly, and the "Swedish Flick" is frowned upon on public roads;
>at least around here anyways. Heh :)

I put in a Flaming River 16:1 steering box. No complaints. It's
strictly manual, which takes some effort, and it's an adjustment of
slowing down until I get to the point where I can install rack &
pinion or a power steering system.
>
>I currently have two sets of wheels I could use with this car. I have a set
>of Minilite copies from Western Wheel. A pair of 15x7 and a pair of 15x8. I
>also have a set of Centerline Convo Pro's. All are 15x7. The fake minilites
>looks WAYYYYY better than the Convo Pro's, but I can't afford another set of
>matching wheels. I'd like tires that'll grip well, but won't completely kill
>my low speed issues since I don't have PS. Since this will be mostly street,
>should I stay with the skinnier tires (225 to 235)? At least on front. I
>know the more rubber to the ground in front the less understeer will be a
>problem. But the wider I go the harder the wheel will be to turn and the car
>will "track" on the highways in the ruts.

I use and like the 225s I have on mine.
>
>I have a complete PS system for a '69 from the pump to the "rack" or
>whatever it was called back then, including drum brake spindles. I also have
>the drop bracket for exhaust clearance. Should I go ahead and install this
>system? Would there be issues using the non PS steering box with the PS
>setup? I've heard there was no difference between the PS and non-PS steering
>boxes in '69. True???

--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
 
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