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Old 10-23-2005, 09:01   #1 (permalink)
Wound Up
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Posts: n/a
Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

Alright,

CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really
into it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if
someone else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need
his approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep
putting new Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.

Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?

Just thinking aloud...

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-23-2005, 09:01   #2 (permalink)
John
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Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
> Alright,
>
> CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
> ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really into
> it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if someone
> else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need his
> approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep putting new
> Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.
>
> Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
> ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
> leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
> does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>
> Just thinking aloud...


I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too heavily
and that person leaves, everything kind of stops. May I suggest a small
committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is a must. It also spreads
the burden of being the *one* in charge, which some people shy away from.

--
John
'69 Mach 1 390 Toploader Acapulco Blue
ThunderSnake #59



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Old 10-23-2005, 10:01   #3 (permalink)
Wound Up
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Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes - Committee thread

John wrote:
> "Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
> news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
>
>>Alright,
>>
>>CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
>>ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really into
>>it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if someone
>>else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need his
>>approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep putting new
>>Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.
>>
>>Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
>>ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
>>leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
>>does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>>
>>Just thinking aloud...

>
>
> I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too heavily
> and that person leaves, everything kind of stops.


We've seen this first-hand.

May I suggest a small
> committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is a must. It also spreads
> the burden of being the *one* in charge, which some people shy away from.
>


That's an excellent idea. I suggest we start by asking some of the
senior and most knowledgeable members if they would care to participate.
Lady and Gentlemen?

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-23-2005, 13:01   #4 (permalink)
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:42:13 -0400, "John"
<mooresjc@chartermi.removethisandonedot.net> wrote:

>"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
>news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
>> Alright,
>>
>> CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
>> ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really into
>> it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if someone
>> else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need his
>> approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep putting new
>> Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.
>>
>> Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
>> ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
>> leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
>> does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>>
>> Just thinking aloud...

>
>I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too heavily
>and that person leaves, everything kind of stops. May I suggest a small
>committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is a must. It also spreads
>the burden of being the *one* in charge, which some people shy away from.

Speaking as a non-TS, who is on the map because it was opened to
regular visitors, etc, would like to say the 3 member panel seems an
excellent concept.

I'm not sure my car is OT since it's a small block.... although it
wants to be a big block when it grows up...
: 0 )
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 10-23-2005, 13:01   #5 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

Spike wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:42:13 -0400, "John"
> <mooresjc@chartermi.removethisandonedot.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
>>news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
>>
>>>Alright,
>>>
>>>CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
>>>ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really into
>>>it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if someone
>>>else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need his
>>>approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep putting new
>>>Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.
>>>
>>>Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
>>>ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
>>>leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
>>>does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>>>
>>>Just thinking aloud...

>>
>>I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too heavily
>>and that person leaves, everything kind of stops. May I suggest a small
>>committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is a must. It also spreads
>>the burden of being the *one* in charge, which some people shy away from.

>
> Speaking as a non-TS, who is on the map because it was opened to
> regular visitors, etc,


I just re-read it, and I missed that the first time. It's not that I
objected at all, it just got me thinking about this.

Very nice FB, by the way. I've always loved that color. My dad had a
'66 vintage burgundy / black 'vert everyone drooled over. Had to sell
it when I was 15... (sigh). Truthfully, it was probably best for me AND
the car.

would like to say the 3 member panel seems an
> excellent concept.
>


I was also thinking simple nominations and votes... but given the
ever-changing size of the participating Snake constituency, it might be
hard to do that well.

> I'm not sure my car is OT since it's a small block.... although it
> wants to be a big block when it grows up...
> : 0 )


It's on-topic because it's a '65 Mustang. I have a SB in my '67, but so
long as I don't talk SBF stuff in here, the rest is game. A while back
we unofficially agreed that the Cougar group (AAMC) would be a good
place for these discussions. RAMFM of course is there too.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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Old 10-23-2005, 22:01   #6 (permalink)
Joe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in
news:435BE6EF.8020006@your.disposal.ask.me:

> Spike wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:42:13 -0400, "John"
>> <mooresjc@chartermi.removethisandonedot.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
>>>news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
>>>
>>>>Alright,
>>>>
>>>>CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
>>>>ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not
>>>>really into it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care
>>>>or not if someone else started designating new Snakes. I don't
>>>>know if we need his approval, or even if he cares. But I do think
>>>>we need to keep putting new Snakes in the ranks, in order to help
>>>>rebuild the member base.
>>>>
>>>>Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
>>>>ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto
>>>>TS leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you
>>>>guys think, does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>>>>
>>>>Just thinking aloud...
>>>
>>>I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too
>>>heavily and that person leaves, everything kind of stops. May I
>>>suggest a small committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is
>>>a must. It also spreads the burden of being the *one* in charge,
>>>which some people shy away from.

>>
>> Speaking as a non-TS, who is on the map because it was opened to
>> regular visitors, etc,

>
> I just re-read it, and I missed that the first time. It's not that I
> objected at all, it just got me thinking about this.
>
> Very nice FB, by the way. I've always loved that color. My dad had
> a '66 vintage burgundy / black 'vert everyone drooled over. Had to
> sell it when I was 15... (sigh). Truthfully, it was probably best
> for me AND the car.
>
> would like to say the 3 member panel seems an
>> excellent concept.
>>

>
> I was also thinking simple nominations and votes... but given the
> ever-changing size of the participating Snake constituency, it might
> be hard to do that well.
>
>> I'm not sure my car is OT since it's a small block.... although it
>> wants to be a big block when it grows up...
>> : 0 )

>
> It's on-topic because it's a '65 Mustang. I have a SB in my '67, but
> so long as I don't talk SBF stuff in here, the rest is game. A while
> back we unofficially agreed that the Cougar group (AAMC) would be a
> good place for these discussions. RAMFM of course is there too.


No offense to Spike, but since when is any small block on topic here?
Where's that link to the FAQ?

Joe
TS#29
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Old 10-23-2005, 22:01   #7 (permalink)
Laurie S.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes - Committee thread


"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
news:435BB346.2040108@your.disposal.ask.me...
> John wrote:
> > "Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
> > news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
> >
> >>Alright,
> >>
> >>CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
> >>ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not really

into
> >>it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care or not if someone
> >>else started designating new Snakes. I don't know if we need his
> >>approval, or even if he cares. But I do think we need to keep putting

new
> >>Snakes in the ranks, in order to help rebuild the member base.
> >>
> >>Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
> >>ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto TS
> >>leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you guys think,
> >>does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
> >>
> >>Just thinking aloud...

> >
> >
> > I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too

heavily
> > and that person leaves, everything kind of stops.

>
> We've seen this first-hand.
>
> May I suggest a small
> > committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is a must. It also

spreads
> > the burden of being the *one* in charge, which some people shy away

from.
> >

>
> That's an excellent idea. I suggest we start by asking some of the
> senior and most knowledgeable members if they would care to participate.
> Lady and Gentlemen?
>
> --
> Wound Up
> ThunderSnake #65
>



Someone hisssssss?

Committee sounds good to me.

------------
Laurie S.
Thunder Snake #7


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Old 10-23-2005, 22:01   #8 (permalink)
Spike
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?


>
>No offense to Spike, but since when is any small block on topic here?
>Where's that link to the FAQ?
>
>Joe
>TS#29

Gee... isn't that what I just said about my car not qualifying? And,
I didn't ask to be admitted, did I? Anyone hear me ask?

And not having a BB under the hood still wouldn't prevent me from
being courteous and helpful if one of this group happened to pass
through my neck of the woods and needed help or whatever.

As for the car itself, I drop in because some early Mustangs have BBs
but the car itself still has a lot of my 65 type systems, and there
are people here who have more experience than I. I also pick up
information in the RAMFM NG. Personally, I don't care where the help
comes from... it's my car that matters. And I don't care who I help
when I can, either.
Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 10-24-2005, 00:01   #9 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

oe wrote:
> Wound Up <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in
> news:435BE6EF.8020006@your.disposal.ask.me:
>
>
>>Spike wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:42:13 -0400, "John"
>>><mooresjc@chartermi.removethisandonedot.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Wound Up" <none@your.disposal.ask.me> wrote in message
>>>>news:435BA9B4.9030908@your.disposal.ask.me...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Alright,
>>>>>
>>>>>CJ tells us he's left, and Tom C. is absent. CJ invented the whole
>>>>>ThunderSnake thing, but I think we can safely assume he's not
>>>>>really into it any more. I don't know if we can assume he'd care
>>>>>or not if someone else started designating new Snakes. I don't
>>>>>know if we need his approval, or even if he cares. But I do think
>>>>>we need to keep putting new Snakes in the ranks, in order to help
>>>>>rebuild the member base.
>>>>>
>>>>>Spike, a regular poster with an on-topic car, adding himself to the
>>>>>ThunderSnake map, raises the question of who might be the de facto
>>>>>TS leader. Would it be Mr. Keller, since he's #5? What do you
>>>>>guys think, does it matter / do you care / do you think we need it?
>>>>>
>>>>>Just thinking aloud...
>>>>
>>>>I care and an excellent topic! When you depend on one person too
>>>>heavily and that person leaves, everything kind of stops. May I
>>>>suggest a small committe, say 3 people? An odd number of people is
>>>>a must. It also spreads the burden of being the *one* in charge,
>>>>which some people shy away from.
>>>
>>>Speaking as a non-TS, who is on the map because it was opened to
>>>regular visitors, etc,

>>
>>I just re-read it, and I missed that the first time. It's not that I
>>objected at all, it just got me thinking about this.
>>
>>Very nice FB, by the way. I've always loved that color. My dad had
>>a '66 vintage burgundy / black 'vert everyone drooled over. Had to
>>sell it when I was 15... (sigh). Truthfully, it was probably best
>>for me AND the car.
>>
>>would like to say the 3 member panel seems an
>>
>>>excellent concept.
>>>

>>
>>I was also thinking simple nominations and votes... but given the
>>ever-changing size of the participating Snake constituency, it might
>>be hard to do that well.
>>
>>
>>>I'm not sure my car is OT since it's a small block.... although it
>>>wants to be a big block when it grows up...
>>>: 0 )

>>
>>It's on-topic because it's a '65 Mustang. I have a SB in my '67, but
>>so long as I don't talk SBF stuff in here, the rest is game. A while
>>back we unofficially agreed that the Cougar group (AAMC) would be a
>>good place for these discussions. RAMFM of course is there too.

>
>
> No offense to Spike, but since when is any small block on topic here?
> Where's that link to the FAQ?
>


It's not. I meant my '67 is on topic so long as it's not about the OT
engine. And I am reminded that a '65 was not available with a big block.

Here's the FAQ. For the moment, I cannot find the revised version.

FAQ for alt.hi-po.big-block-ford-mercury
Revision I - December 8, 1999

Q1: What is a FAQ?
A: FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions, and in this case it is
used to outline what is and isn't on-topic in this discussion group, as
well as provide a few procedural guidelines.
Q2: Why do I have to read it before posting?
A: Every newsgroup has a different set of rules, or no rules at all in
many cases. In order to keep the discussions focused on the intended
topics, a new participant can look here to make sure his post(s) will
not be off-topic. This is a courtesy to all existing participants.
Q3: What happens if I post an off-topic message?
A: The first time, you will be referred to this FAQ. The second time,
you will be considered in violation of the FAQ and your information will
be forwarded to the abuse dept. of your ISP. And, the regulars in this
group will not reply to you.
Q4: So what you are saying is that you don't want this group to split
into wild tangent threads that have nothing to do with the subject matter?
A: Exactly.
Q5: OK, just what IS on-topic here?
A: The topics for discussion here are divided into Primary and
Secondary categories. They are as follows:
Primary Topics:
1. All members of the FE and 385 series engine families and their
respective drivetrain components, including specifications,
modification, restoration, parts sources, etc.
2. All Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, and Edsel passenger cars produced with
the above engines from 1958 to 1976, including specifications,
modification, restoration, parts sources, etc.
3. All historical facts pertaining to 1 and 2, including production
statistics, advertising, competition achievements, etc.
4. Personal stories that recount an event or events involving your
past/present Ford Big Block car.
Secondary Topics:
1. Cleveland, Y-block, and MEL series engines.
2. Any 50's, 60's, or 70's related nostalgia including, but not
limited to, music, movies, ads, model/slot cars, street scene, car
culture, etc. Although there are other discussion groups for most of
these, the occasional trip down Memory Lane can be fun.
3. Computer talk as it directly relates to Usenet participation.

Q6: What's considered off-topic here?
A: Anything that doesn't fall into the above categories, particularly:
1. Small block Ford V8, 6, and 4 cylinder engines and non-Ford
engines. Discussions of non-Ford Big Block engines in comparisons of
specs or design are OK. (For instance, comparing the Chrysler 440HP's
performance to the 428CJ's).
2. Any pre-50's or post-1976 vehicles and foreign vehicles of any year
that are not Ford V8 powered.

Q7: What's the policy on trolls?
A: For now, I've devised a three-tier system for replying to trolls
which can be utilized by any regular member of the group:
"Level Three: Proceed with Caution". This for a seemingly "innocent"
post that may say something like "I was thinking of buying a Ford, but
my buddy says they break down a lot. What do you think?" We've seen this
approach before, so let's not get pulled into a defensive situation.
"Level Two: Off-topic Comparison". Do we need to deal with claims that
the latest whiz-bang turbo Mitsuyota is faster than the old BB cars? No
way. At this point we inform the poster he is off topic and cannot
discuss that here.
"Level One: Blatant Troll". This needs little explanation. Attacks on
our subject matter or members earn this, and they can be ignored.

Q8: How about cross-posting?
A: Not allowed. Also, watch for non-regulars who cross-post into
non-car groups. They will be Level One trolls.
Q9: What's the policy on spam?
A: This is tough, because different newsfeeds will filter out varying
amounts of "spam". So, we will not all see the same posts. For general
purposes, I will not consider a single CAR-related commercial ad as
spam, even if it is cross-posted into this group. Often it is too time
consuming to chase down stuff like this. Plus, the product or service
might actually be of interest to someone here. Frequently repeated ads
will get some attention, however. We will all have to deal with certain
amounts of off topic garbage. That is life on the Net.
Q10: I want to sell a car part here. Is that OK?
A: Sure. Give the members here the first shot at your item. I would
like to see people help each other out locating needed parts in this group.
Q11: I have a regular business selling car related items, and I want
to participate in the group, also. How do I keep from being labelled a
spammer?
A: First off, you can post an intro about your business and its
product(s). After that, you can incorporate your business name and site
info in your signature so that it can be seen whenever you post a
message. Obviously, if someone asks a question that is related to your
business, you are free to give him a short sales pitch.
Q12: I'd like to post pictures of my car so everybody can check it
out. What about it?
A: There is an increasing sentiment among news service administrators
against posting binaries in discussions groups. As a matter of fact,
some are now looking into placing filters on said groups to eliminate
binaries. Also, with a new group like this that will take several weeks
to spread out among Usenet, it may not be a good idea to post binaries,
as a newsadmin checking out the group may decide not to carry it.
Therefore, it is suggested that pics be placed at a website, or posted
to alt.binaries.pictures.autos with a notice in this group. Some time
after the New Year there will be a companion website to this newsgroup,
and members' pictures can be archived there.
Q13: What's the policy on flame wars and foul language?
A: Since it is difficult to avoid differences of opinion, all I can
say is let's relegate the arguments to fact-based comments. That should
knock down most flaming to a dull spark. As for the occasional curse,
we're all big boys and girls here, so to each his own. I can only
imagine the range of verbal color that we all have uttered while working
on our cars. =:0
Q14: What about humor posts?
A: Nobody hates to smile (I hope), so *tasteful* humor posts are OK.
Non-car humor should have OT (for off-topic) in the subject line.
Q15: I am too lazy to figure out how to quote previous text in my
replies. Are you going to flame me?
A: Probably, if you don't ask someone in the group to explain how to
set your news program for quoting. This is, again, a common courtesy to
those who may not know what is you are talking about if they had not
seen the previous post, or it has been a while since that post was viewed.
Q16: I am new to Usenet. Should I observe how discussions go on here
for a while before I jump in with both feet and make a fool of myself?
A: Good idea, newbie! Really, it shouldn't take long to see the gist
of things. The most important thing to remember is not to claim as fact
anything that you are not sure of, or at least pose it as opinion or a
question. Also, DON'T POST IN CAPS!
Q17: I think I have the picture now. For the record, who wrote this
FAQ and conceived, proposed, and formed AHPBBFM?
A: Rick Brown, aka CobraJet.
Q18: Is there anything else I need to remember?
A: Yes: Big Block is an Attitude.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2005, 00:01   #10 (permalink)
Wound Up
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who designates ThunderSnakes now?

Spike wrote:
>>No offense to Spike, but since when is any small block on topic here?
>>Where's that link to the FAQ?
>>
>>Joe
>>TS#29

>
> Gee... isn't that what I just said about my car not qualifying? And,
> I didn't ask to be admitted, did I? Anyone hear me ask?
>


Yes. And no, you didn't. This miscommunication is my fault. I take
responsibility.

> And not having a BB under the hood still wouldn't prevent me from
> being courteous and helpful if one of this group happened to pass
> through my neck of the woods and needed help or whatever.
>


That's what it's all about...

> As for the car itself, I drop in because some early Mustangs have BBs
> but the car itself still has a lot of my 65 type systems, and there
> are people here who have more experience than I. I also pick up
> information in the RAMFM NG. Personally, I don't care where the help
> comes from... it's my car that matters. And I don't care who I help
> when I can, either.


I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. It was I who created the disconnect,
sorry.

> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg



--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

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