Ford Forums banner

2001 - 5.4 Diesel

4K views 18 replies 0 participants last post by  Derrick Hudson 
G
#1 ·
I was looking at a 2001 F250 with a 5.4. The salesman started it up
and the thing sounded like a diesel, I said I thought I was looking at a gas
powered truck, not diesel. He said it was gas, they sound that way
because of the overhead cam and the idle circuit. It did smooth out
after a minute or so but this is fishy. Do these things sound like this when
started cold?? I had him start another 5.4 powered truck and it wasn't as bad.
Never heard a gas engine rattle like a diesel.

TIA
Probasco
 
G
#2 ·
run, don't walk


"Weril Samson" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
news:skp0m1d2oqslfcj63ajcuiih9tfauupm41@4ax.com...
>I was looking at a 2001 F250 with a 5.4. The salesman started it up
> and the thing sounded like a diesel, I said I thought I was looking at a
> gas
> powered truck, not diesel. He said it was gas, they sound that way
> because of the overhead cam and the idle circuit. It did smooth out
> after a minute or so but this is fishy. Do these things sound like this
> when
> started cold?? I had him start another 5.4 powered truck and it wasn't as
> bad.
> Never heard a gas engine rattle like a diesel.
>
> TIA
> Probasco
 
G
#3 ·
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted that:

: :: :::> run, don't walk
: :: :::>

Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
(drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking oil
at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long time.
This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
A Google search of Usenet verified this

So much for looking at Ford..

Probasco
 
G
#4 ·
Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at something in
a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size.
Like 446 cubes.

Good luck,

Spdloader



"ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
> that:
>
> : :: :::> run, don't walk
> : :: :::>
>
> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
> oil
> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long time.
> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>
> So much for looking at Ford..
>
> Probasco
>
 
G
#5 ·
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:33:45 GMT, Weril Samson wrote:
> I was looking at a 2001 F250 with a 5.4. The salesman started it up
> and the thing sounded like a diesel, I said I thought I was looking at a gas
> powered truck, not diesel.


The diesel is a 6.0L. Older diesels (80's, early 90's) are 7.3L.


> Never heard a gas engine rattle like a diesel.


You should have heard my 2.9L BroncoII. It had a nice big hole in the
muffler. Not quite the same rhythm though.

-D

--
A Microsoft Certified System Engineer is to information technology as a
McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to the culinary arts.
Michael Bacarella commenting on the limited value of certification.

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org
 
G
#6 ·
I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
filters and no more noise.

Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
the oil's never been changed??

"ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
> that:
>
> : :: :::> run, don't walk
> : :: :::>
>
> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
> oil
> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long time.
> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>
> So much for looking at Ford..
>
> Probasco
>
 
G
#7 ·
Some, especially the cheap ones, do not have a check valve in the filter so
the engine does not get any oil for a few seconds. The motorcraft filter
does have the check valve.

Bob


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:qrednZ2HDo_AqvzeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
>noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
>filters and no more noise.
>
> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
> the oil's never been changed??
>
> "ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
> news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
>> that:
>>
>> : :: :::> run, don't walk
>> : :: :::>
>>
>> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
>> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
>> oil
>> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long
>> time.
>> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
>> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>>
>> So much for looking at Ford..
>>
>> Probasco
>>

>
>
 
G
#9 ·
It has the correct filter - FL-820s - this filter has the check valve to prevent
bleed back (so I'm told).
Supposed to have had the oil changed, It's on a dealers lot.


On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:44 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> posted
that:

: :: :::> I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
: :: :::> noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
: :: :::> filters and no more noise.
: :: :::>
: :: :::> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
: :: :::> the oil's never been changed??
 
G
#8 ·
He started two other trucks (5.4 engines) on the lot, they also made this noise, just
not as bad.
The truck in question has a motorcraft FL-820s oil filter - (check valve).

No thanks to the PowerStroke - can't stand the smell and rattle.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:32:15 GMT, "Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> posted
that:

: :: :::> Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at something in
: :: :::> a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size.
: :: :::> Like 446 cubes.
: :: :::>
: :: :::> Good luck,
: :: :::>
: :: :::> Spdloader
: :: :::>
 
G
#10 ·
lol

I guess it is an acquired taste, but with the windows rolled up, AC on, and
the XM tuned in properly, you can barely hear it..........

Spdloader




"ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
news:jnq2m1hlbds9eu1r73f87duf3r1lea1d4s@4ax.com...
>
> He started two other trucks (5.4 engines) on the lot, they also made this
> noise, just
> not as bad.
> The truck in question has a motorcraft FL-820s oil filter - (check valve).
>
> No thanks to the PowerStroke - can't stand the smell and rattle.
>
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:32:15 GMT, "Spdloader"
> <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> posted
> that:
>
> : :: :::> Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at
> something in
> : :: :::> a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size.
> : :: :::> Like 446 cubes.
> : :: :::>
> : :: :::> Good luck,
> : :: :::>
> : :: :::> Spdloader
> : :: :::>
>
 
G
#11 ·
True, but a Mobil 1 filter isn't particularly cheap...but I consistently got
that noise when using one.

"Bob" <bobdawn1@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0pc8f.14061$c4.2894@trndny03...
> Some, especially the cheap ones, do not have a check valve in the filter
> so the engine does not get any oil for a few seconds. The motorcraft
> filter does have the check valve.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:qrednZ2HDo_AqvzeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>>I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
>>noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
>>filters and no more noise.
>>
>> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
>> the oil's never been changed??
>>
>> "ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
>> news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
>>> that:
>>>
>>> : :: :::> run, don't walk
>>> : :: :::>
>>>
>>> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
>>> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
>>> oil
>>> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long
>>> time.
>>> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
>>> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>>>
>>> So much for looking at Ford..
>>>
>>> Probasco
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
G
#12 ·
Derrick Hudson wrote:
> <snipped>
> The diesel is a 6.0L. Older diesels (80's, early 90's) are 7.3L.
>

Hmmmm, my 2001 PSD is a 7.3 (introduced in 1994). Prior to that was the
6.9. The 6.0 was released in 2003.
 
G
#13 ·
I always thought the same...

Leaving the engine running and it not interfering with your drive-up window
transaction, was always my graphic determining divider...

BUT once you drive a new 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel, You will truly be hard
pressed to continue letting the slightly louder and slightly different smell
excuses from keeping you away from those 325 ponies and 570 torque...
Oh did I mention the much better fuel mileage than any of the gas engines?

I'm a gas engine guy from way back...
I vacillated back and forth over which engine to order in my new truck.
After much agony I decided to try my first automotive application diesel
engine (Fords 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel)
I am SO glad I did not order the V-10 in my new 2005 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel
F-450...

:)

Once you have tasted it, the pulling HEAVY weight up BIG hills, unequaled
dominance that the monstrous low RPM torque producing turbo diesels have is
very hard to do without.

Did I mention that turbo engines do not suffer that dreaded horsepower loss
of 10% per 1000 feet of altitude gain that all naturally aspirated engines
suffer from?


Please do yourself a BIG favor and test drive a "brand new" Power Stroke
Diesel (just to really experience what you are missing out on) before you
make your final decision...



"ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
news:jnq2m1hlbds9eu1r73f87duf3r1lea1d4s@4ax.com...
>
> He started two other trucks (5.4 engines) on the lot, they also made this
> noise, just
> not as bad.
> The truck in question has a motorcraft FL-820s oil filter - (check valve).
>
> No thanks to the PowerStroke - can't stand the smell and rattle.
>
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:32:15 GMT, "Spdloader"
> <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> posted
> that:
>
> : :: :::> Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at
> something in
> : :: :::> a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size.
> : :: :::> Like 446 cubes.
> : :: :::>
> : :: :::> Good luck,
> : :: :::>
> : :: :::> Spdloader
> : :: :::>
>
 
G
#14 ·
FYI:

There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used
in Motorcraft filters.
The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold.
The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is
otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire
oiling system.

Some Ford NUTS I know will not use Motorcraft filters because of their
bypass valves, I still use them myself....

Here is some comparitive info of the internet...
These particular filter moldels are for the SHO not the V-10...


Motorcraft - FL400S
The Motorcraft is made by Purolator for Ford and is the replacement part you
can expect at dealerships. The sample we purchased was only $3. Unlike the
Purolator, the bypass valve was on the other end, as per Ford specification.

The shell was as thin as the Purolator, or no thicker at .0085" which is
nominally the same given the possible errors measuring the wall thickness of
a curved can.

The filtering media is paper, I assume of tolerable quality. They use a lot
of it, (204.5 sq. in). All in all, it is a well made product, but it is made
to be sold as inexpensively as possible. The PuroOne has the bypass on the
other end but perhaps better and more paper. So which one is the better of
the two? I don't think the Puro is twice is good but these two filters,
mentioned first, are at the bottom of the list.

One thing I learned about Ford oil filters is that they use better oil
filters (from another source) at the factory for the owner to use as the
engine is being broken in. Thank God!



Mobil 1 - ML209 (& M1-301 oversized)

Mobil 1 oil and oil filters have long had an outstanding reputation. The
filters have a synthetic element media and the strongest shell on the
market. The outside shell is .0195" thick on the large ML-301 or .0170"
thick on the smaller ML209. Mobil 1 is maybe the most forthcoming with
information since for a long time they have been the 100-year-old scotch of
quality oil filters. They are proud of their "Hydrostatic Burst" values
which are three times the SAE standard. Their "Pressure Impulse Cycles to
Failure" values which are the highest, and only ones I have found; which
mean the guts of the filter are made like a tank. The whole filter is an
engineering exercise in loving design excess. Is it the best oil filter made
or has anyone come up with a better design while Mobil 1 has rested on it's
reputation? Lacking extensive and expensive laboratory tests I can only say
Mobil Oil filters are somewhere in the top three, in a class of outstanding
over achievers. Like all top shelf oil filters the going rate seems to be
about $10 off the shelf or $9 if you can cheese a jobber price.

http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart5.htm




"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:qrednZ2HDo_AqvzeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
>noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
>filters and no more noise.
>
> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
> the oil's never been changed??
>
> "ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
> news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
>> that:
>>
>> : :: :::> run, don't walk
>> : :: :::>
>>
>> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
>> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
>> oil
>> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long
>> time.
>> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
>> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>>
>> So much for looking at Ford..
>>
>> Probasco
>>

>
>
 
G
#15 ·
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:44:09 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com>
wrote:

>FYI:
>
>There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used
>in Motorcraft filters.
>The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold.
>The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is
>otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire
>oiling system.
>
>Some Ford NUTS I know will not use Motorcraft filters because of their
>bypass valves, I still use them myself....


Wait 'til your buddies learn the hard way that any oil is
better than no oil. Cold oil is very difficult to push thru
a filter. I can't think of any engine that does not either
use a bypass in the filter or a bypass in the filter head
for this purpose. I have seen a couple of guys install a
filter with no bypass on an engine that did not have it's
own bypass with catastrophic results even in mild weather.
Almost all Fords require a bypass in the filter. Another
problem with no bypass where one should be used is split
filter cases or broken oil pump drives.

Lugnut

>
>Here is some comparitive info of the internet...
>These particular filter moldels are for the SHO not the V-10...
>
>
>Motorcraft - FL400S
>The Motorcraft is made by Purolator for Ford and is the replacement part you
>can expect at dealerships. The sample we purchased was only $3. Unlike the
>Purolator, the bypass valve was on the other end, as per Ford specification.
>
>The shell was as thin as the Purolator, or no thicker at .0085" which is
>nominally the same given the possible errors measuring the wall thickness of
>a curved can.
>
>The filtering media is paper, I assume of tolerable quality. They use a lot
>of it, (204.5 sq. in). All in all, it is a well made product, but it is made
>to be sold as inexpensively as possible. The PuroOne has the bypass on the
>other end but perhaps better and more paper. So which one is the better of
>the two? I don't think the Puro is twice is good but these two filters,
>mentioned first, are at the bottom of the list.
>
>One thing I learned about Ford oil filters is that they use better oil
>filters (from another source) at the factory for the owner to use as the
>engine is being broken in. Thank God!
>
>
>
>Mobil 1 - ML209 (& M1-301 oversized)
>
>Mobil 1 oil and oil filters have long had an outstanding reputation. The
>filters have a synthetic element media and the strongest shell on the
>market. The outside shell is .0195" thick on the large ML-301 or .0170"
>thick on the smaller ML209. Mobil 1 is maybe the most forthcoming with
>information since for a long time they have been the 100-year-old scotch of
>quality oil filters. They are proud of their "Hydrostatic Burst" values
>which are three times the SAE standard. Their "Pressure Impulse Cycles to
>Failure" values which are the highest, and only ones I have found; which
>mean the guts of the filter are made like a tank. The whole filter is an
>engineering exercise in loving design excess. Is it the best oil filter made
>or has anyone come up with a better design while Mobil 1 has rested on it's
>reputation? Lacking extensive and expensive laboratory tests I can only say
>Mobil Oil filters are somewhere in the top three, in a class of outstanding
>over achievers. Like all top shelf oil filters the going rate seems to be
>about $10 off the shelf or $9 if you can cheese a jobber price.
>
>http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart5.htm
>
>
>
>
>"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>news:qrednZ2HDo_AqvzeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>>I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain
>>noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft
>>filters and no more noise.
>>
>> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe
>> the oil's never been changed??
>>
>> "ProBasCo" <guesswho@serial.net> wrote in message
>> news:sll1m1tsioe0gb578fas8n9nfi76qnvhte@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" <joeg@sbcglobal.net> posted
>>> that:
>>>
>>> : :: :::> run, don't walk
>>> : :: :::>
>>>
>>> Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert,
>>> (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking
>>> oil
>>> at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long
>>> time.
>>> This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter.
>>> A Google search of Usenet verified this
>>>
>>> So much for looking at Ford..
>>>
>>> Probasco
>>>

>>
>>

>
 
G
#16 ·
Hold on one second doc, we're talking about anti bleed back valves, not bypass
valves. Apparently the 5.4 has a hydraulic timing chain tensioner that bleeds off
over time if the right filter isn't used, hence THE NOISE.


On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:44:09 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com> posted that:

: :: :::> FYI:
: :: :::>
: :: :::> There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used
: :: :::> in Motorcraft filters.
: :: :::> The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold.
: :: :::> The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is
: :: :::> otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire
: :: :::> oiling system.


=== SNIP ===
 
G
#17 ·
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:31:26 GMT, ProBasCo
<guesswho@serial.net> wrote:

>
>Hold on one second doc, we're talking about anti bleed back valves, not bypass
>valves. Apparently the 5.4 has a hydraulic timing chain tensioner that bleeds off
>over time if the right filter isn't used, hence THE NOISE.


Yeah. I didn't know for sure which he was talking about
but, I tried to address the bypass valve problem - or the
lack thereof being a real problem. The lack of an
anti-drainback valve is not good but, usually only results
in late oil supply as opposed to no oil supply. Ford
filters have both the anti-drain and a bypass valve. I
think the anti-drain valve is probably a good idea even if
it is not required in certain applications just to make sure
oil is available as quickly as possible.

Lugnut

>
>
>On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:44:09 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com> posted that:
>
>: :: :::> FYI:
>: :: :::>
>: :: :::> There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used
>: :: :::> in Motorcraft filters.
>: :: :::> The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold.
>: :: :::> The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is
>: :: :::> otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire
>: :: :::> oiling system.
>
>
>=== SNIP ===
 
G
#18 ·
Thanks for straightening me out.
Another reason not to believe everything you read on the Internet :)

tom wrote:
> 7.3 was introduced in 1988. 87 was the last year for the 6.9
> "Agave" <idon't@thinkso.com> wrote in message
> news:k-2dnUwVqr1RPPzenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> Derrick Hudson wrote:
>>
>>> <snipped>
>>> The diesel is a 6.0L. Older diesels (80's, early 90's) are 7.3L.
>>>
>>>

>> Hmmmm, my 2001 PSD is a 7.3 (introduced in 1994). Prior to that was the
>> 6.9. The 6.0 was released in 2003.
>>

>
>
>
 
G
#19 ·
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:50:26 -0500, Agave wrote:
> [-- text/plain, encoding 7bit, charset: ISO-8859-1, 22 lines --]
>
> Thanks for straightening me out.
> Another reason not to believe everything you read on the Internet :)


Yes, thanks (both of you) for better specifics. I do know that 1994
was a year of change for the diesel (or so I've read) starting with
naturally aspirated, then turbo, and then powerstroke.

-D


> tom wrote:
>> 7.3 was introduced in 1988. 87 was the last year for the 6.9
>> "Agave" <idon't@thinkso.com> wrote in message
>> news:k-2dnUwVqr1RPPzenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Derrick Hudson wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snipped>
>>>> The diesel is a 6.0L. Older diesels (80's, early 90's) are 7.3L.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hmmmm, my 2001 PSD is a 7.3 (introduced in 1994). Prior to that was the
>>> 6.9. The 6.0 was released in 2003.

>


--
I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave
has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:34-36

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top