Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant. - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Fordforums Community > USENET NewsGroups > alt.trucks.ford
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2006, 22:01   #1 (permalink)
pkurtz2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.

OK here is a new one for yall....
I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it sounded
like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider harshly (compared
to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real quick a
couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and run for like
2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if they are fouled,
but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi, and they looked
great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my old vehicles. I am a
ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the family. I asked him what
he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt even remember working on the
internals of a 3.0L engine.
NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant seems
to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it was
almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the radiator,
at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was almost full. Now,
correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion during hot engine
run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the radiator when it cools
down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to refill it, it was under a
strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in the cap that is supposed to
allow flow back into the radiator when it cools down??

Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up the
wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that the rough
idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket shrinkage. I
also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into the coolant system.
I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant out of the expansion
tank.

Let me know what you think. Respond to pkurtz2@cox.net . I appreciate it if
anyone has had this issue and found a resolution for it.


  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-17-2006, 04:01   #2 (permalink)
Joe S.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ka%yf.23842$0G.17919@dukeread10...
> OK here is a new one for yall....
> I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
> Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it
> sounded like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider harshly
> (compared to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real
> quick a couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and run
> for like 2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if they
> are fouled, but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi,
> and they looked great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my
> old vehicles. I am a ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the
> family. I asked him what he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt
> even remember working on the internals of a 3.0L engine.
> NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant seems
> to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
> noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it
> was almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the
> radiator, at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was almost
> full. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion
> during hot engine run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the
> radiator when it cools down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to
> refill it, it was under a strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in
> the cap that is supposed to allow flow back into the radiator when it
> cools down??
>
> Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up
> the wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that the
> rough idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket
> shrinkage. I also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into the
> coolant system. I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant out
> of the expansion tank.
>
> Let me know what you think. Respond to pkurtz2@cox.net . I appreciate it
> if anyone has had this issue and found a resolution for it.
>


I think you figured it out. Sounds as though you have a bad gasket --
intake, exhaust, or most likely a head gasket. The gasket likely has a
crack in it -- the crack is allowing air to be sucked into the cylinders,
thereby making the air-fuel mixture more lean than it should be and this is
causing the engine to run rough. When the engine gets warm, the gasket
expands and seals itself, thus, the engine runs normally when warm.

The disappearing coolant is the result of coolant running out through the
crack in the gasket. It may be that coolant is being pulled into one or
more cylinders where the heat of combustion turns it to steam and it goes
out the exhaust -- or -- the coolant may be blowing out through the crack in
the gasket -- or both.

Of course, this diagnosis is not definitive -- just the opinion of an old
shade-tree mechanic.


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 07:01   #3 (permalink)
putt@webtv.net
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.

>I am a ASE mechanic myself

really...?? Please tell where you are employed!

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 11:01   #4 (permalink)
Hairy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ka%yf.23842$0G.17919@dukeread10...
> OK here is a new one for yall....
> I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
> Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it

sounded
> like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider harshly

(compared
> to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real quick a
> couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and run for like
> 2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if they are

fouled,
> but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi, and they

looked
> great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my old vehicles. I am

a
> ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the family. I asked him

what
> he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt even remember working on

the
> internals of a 3.0L engine.
> NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant seems
> to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
> noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it

was
> almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the

radiator,
> at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was almost full. Now,
> correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion during hot

engine
> run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the radiator when it cools
> down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to refill it, it was under a
> strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in the cap that is supposed to
> allow flow back into the radiator when it cools down??
>
> Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up

the
> wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that the

rough
> idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket shrinkage.

I
> also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into the coolant

system.
> I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant out of the expansion
> tank.


I think at minimum, you need a new radiator cap.

Dave


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 12:01   #5 (permalink)
Ulysses
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote in message
news:oL2dnabhcL3kTFHeRVn-uw@comcast.com...
>
> "pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ka%yf.23842$0G.17919@dukeread10...
> > OK here is a new one for yall....
> > I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
> > Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it
> > sounded like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider

harshly
> > (compared to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real
> > quick a couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and

run
> > for like 2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if

they
> > are fouled, but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi,
> > and they looked great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my
> > old vehicles. I am a ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the
> > family. I asked him what he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt
> > even remember working on the internals of a 3.0L engine.
> > NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant

seems
> > to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
> > noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it
> > was almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the
> > radiator, at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was

almost
> > full. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion
> > during hot engine run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the
> > radiator when it cools down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to
> > refill it, it was under a strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in
> > the cap that is supposed to allow flow back into the radiator when it
> > cools down??
> >
> > Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up
> > the wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that

the
> > rough idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket
> > shrinkage. I also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into

the
> > coolant system. I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant

out
> > of the expansion tank.
> >
> > Let me know what you think. Respond to pkurtz2@cox.net . I appreciate it
> > if anyone has had this issue and found a resolution for it.
> >

>
> I think you figured it out. Sounds as though you have a bad gasket --
> intake, exhaust, or most likely a head gasket. The gasket likely has a
> crack in it -- the crack is allowing air to be sucked into the cylinders,
> thereby making the air-fuel mixture more lean than it should be and this

is
> causing the engine to run rough. When the engine gets warm, the gasket
> expands and seals itself, thus, the engine runs normally when warm.
>
> The disappearing coolant is the result of coolant running out through the
> crack in the gasket. It may be that coolant is being pulled into one or
> more cylinders where the heat of combustion turns it to steam and it goes
> out the exhaust -- or -- the coolant may be blowing out through the crack

in
> the gasket -- or both.
>
> Of course, this diagnosis is not definitive -- just the opinion of an old
> shade-tree mechanic.
>
>


Your diagnosis sounds good to me but what if it runs rough at start-up but
is not losing coolant? I have a '92 Explorer 4.0 V6 OHV with a mere 275,000
miles on it and it runs rough at first then smooths out after a minute or
two (or if I rev it up a little at first). I also have not pulled the plugs
recently but could leaking valve seals cause this? I recently replaced the
radiator because it was dumping coolant out of the reservoir and it had
white smoke coming out the tailpipe (burning coolant?). I added some
(GASP!) stop leak that is supposed to seal cracked heads and leaky head
gaskets and the smoke went away but it still runs rought at startup. I also
recently replaced the water pump and have cleaned the MAF and the other (?)
sensors. The intake manifold gaskets have also been changed. I realize at
this many miles it could be more than one problem. Could a clogged radiator
also cause pressure build-up and coolant loss and contribute to a head
gasket leak?



  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 20:01   #6 (permalink)
pkurtz2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.

Ulysses,
Your problem sounds IDENTICAL to mine. If your truck has 275,000 on it, I
would say its due for head gaskets anyway. If you know you can do it
yourself, it will probably only cost you about 150 bucks to do it. I get a
discount at O'reillys becuase I am an automotive student, so its only going
to cost me about 100 bucks. One of the primary reasons on my truck I think
that its the headgasket is due to the fact that when I turn the truck off it
still pushes air out of my radiator into the expansion (overflow) tank. If
yours does this, and when you open the radiator on a cold engine first thing
in the morning, and you get pressure out of it.. You probably have a leaking
head gasket... Leaking Valve seals usually dont cause rough starts unless
its allowed to go on too long and the plugs are indeed fouled. That is the
second symptom of leaking valve seals. But the first symptom of leaking
valve seals, is blue smoke when you first start the engine. Thats cause its
burning the oil that dripped into the engine when it wasnt running. Just
watch your tail pipe when first start your car (should be easier to see on a
warm engine). So the next time you take it to the grocery store and turn it
off for like an hour and then restart it.. If your valve seals are leaking,
this is when you will really notice it.

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11sqi2elue0qhdb@corp.supernews.com...
> Your diagnosis sounds good to me but what if it runs rough at start-up but
> is not losing coolant? I have a '92 Explorer 4.0 V6 OHV with a mere
> 275,000
> miles on it and it runs rough at first then smooths out after a minute or
> two (or if I rev it up a little at first). I also have not pulled the
> plugs
> recently but could leaking valve seals cause this? I recently replaced
> the
> radiator because it was dumping coolant out of the reservoir and it had
> white smoke coming out the tailpipe (burning coolant?). I added some
> (GASP!) stop leak that is supposed to seal cracked heads and leaky head
> gaskets and the smoke went away but it still runs rought at startup. I
> also
> recently replaced the water pump and have cleaned the MAF and the other
> (?)
> sensors. The intake manifold gaskets have also been changed. I realize
> at
> this many miles it could be more than one problem. Could a clogged
> radiator
> also cause pressure build-up and coolant loss and contribute to a head
> gasket leak?
>
>
>



  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2006, 09:01   #7 (permalink)
Ulysses
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:CUizf.34840$0G.31090@dukeread10...
> Ulysses,
> Your problem sounds IDENTICAL to mine. If your truck has 275,000 on it, I
> would say its due for head gaskets anyway. If you know you can do it
> yourself, it will probably only cost you about 150 bucks to do it.


I've looked at the situation and have been putting it off mainly because it
looks like the exhaust manifolds are going to be a nightmare to remove. At
the moment the engine runs amazing well for the number of miles on it and
easily passes the California smog tests.

Thanks for the info. This narrows it down as I'm no longer getting smoke on
startup and it was white, not blue. If the stop-leak did what it said it
would do then by temporarily sealing the head leaks that would indicate to
me that they are indeed leaking.

I've read several claims of 350,000 miles on this particular engine in the
Explorer and most of those folks were still driving them so based upon that
I think it would be worth the trouble to replace the head gaskets and get my
(last?) 75,000 miles out of it.


I get a
> discount at O'reillys becuase I am an automotive student, so its only

going
> to cost me about 100 bucks. One of the primary reasons on my truck I think
> that its the headgasket is due to the fact that when I turn the truck off

it
> still pushes air out of my radiator into the expansion (overflow) tank. If
> yours does this, and when you open the radiator on a cold engine first

thing
> in the morning, and you get pressure out of it.. You probably have a

leaking
> head gasket... Leaking Valve seals usually dont cause rough starts unless
> its allowed to go on too long and the plugs are indeed fouled. That is the
> second symptom of leaking valve seals. But the first symptom of leaking
> valve seals, is blue smoke when you first start the engine. Thats cause

its
> burning the oil that dripped into the engine when it wasnt running. Just
> watch your tail pipe when first start your car (should be easier to see on

a
> warm engine). So the next time you take it to the grocery store and turn

it
> off for like an hour and then restart it.. If your valve seals are

leaking,
> this is when you will really notice it.
>
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11sqi2elue0qhdb@corp.supernews.com...
> > Your diagnosis sounds good to me but what if it runs rough at start-up

but
> > is not losing coolant? I have a '92 Explorer 4.0 V6 OHV with a mere
> > 275,000
> > miles on it and it runs rough at first then smooths out after a minute

or
> > two (or if I rev it up a little at first). I also have not pulled the
> > plugs
> > recently but could leaking valve seals cause this? I recently replaced
> > the
> > radiator because it was dumping coolant out of the reservoir and it had
> > white smoke coming out the tailpipe (burning coolant?). I added some
> > (GASP!) stop leak that is supposed to seal cracked heads and leaky head
> > gaskets and the smoke went away but it still runs rought at startup. I
> > also
> > recently replaced the water pump and have cleaned the MAF and the other
> > (?)
> > sensors. The intake manifold gaskets have also been changed. I realize
> > at
> > this many miles it could be more than one problem. Could a clogged
> > radiator
> > also cause pressure build-up and coolant loss and contribute to a head
> > gasket leak?
> >
> >
> >

>
>



  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 18:01   #8 (permalink)
pkurtz2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ka%yf.23842$0G.17919@dukeread10...
> OK here is a new one for yall....
> I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
> Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it
> sounded like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider harshly
> (compared to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real
> quick a couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and run
> for like 2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if they
> are fouled, but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi,
> and they looked great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my
> old vehicles. I am a ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the
> family. I asked him what he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt
> even remember working on the internals of a 3.0L engine.
> NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant seems
> to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
> noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it
> was almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the
> radiator, at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was almost
> full. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion
> during hot engine run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the
> radiator when it cools down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to
> refill it, it was under a strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in
> the cap that is supposed to allow flow back into the radiator when it
> cools down??
>
> Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up
> the wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that the
> rough idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket
> shrinkage. I also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into the
> coolant system. I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant out
> of the expansion tank.
>
> Let me know what you think. Respond to pkurtz2@cox.net . I appreciate it
> if anyone has had this issue and found a resolution for it.


Ok here is the skinny guys. I JUST got done doing a head gasket replacement
on my truck. The short of it is, that either the intake gasket, or the the
head gasket was at fault and it has stopped its problem.. Everything works
as its supposed to. I do think that it was the head gasket. The reason I
think this is because there is a spot on one of the gaskets where you can
see a deterioration of the gasket material in between the water jacket
holed, just outside the fire ring on the #5 cylinder, which also happens to
be the cylinder that when I unplug the spark plug, it doesnt change the
sound of the engine on the cold start.

For the person that said that I needed a new radiator cap, at mininum. I had
it checked yesterday, and it is fine. It is rated at 15psi and it is
releasing at 14.7psi, and thats good enough for me.

Thanks for all the replies guys, and I will try to offer insite where ever I
can. I am not going to lie, if I am not there to diagnose the problem, then
there is a good chance that I could be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to put out
my thoughts and have some folks respond to them..


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2006, 10:01   #9 (permalink)
Ulysses
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Sounds like a miss on cold starts, and vanishing coolant.


"pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:vVWzf.42377$0G.19561@dukeread10...
>
> "pkurtz2" <pkurtz2@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ka%yf.23842$0G.17919@dukeread10...
> > OK here is a new one for yall....
> > I have a '00' Ford Ranger 3.0L Flex-Fuel 97,000mi, 5spd, 3.71 rearend.
> > Suddenly I noticed one cold morning when I started my truck that it
> > sounded like it had a miss. It also vibrated what I would consider

harshly
> > (compared to normal). What I dont get is that if you rev the engine real
> > quick a couple times it will go away. Or if you let the truck sit and

run
> > for like 2min it goes away?? I havent pulled the plugs yet to see if

they
> > are fouled, but its only got 97000 and I changed the plugs at 50,000mi,
> > and they looked great when I did it. I was just stuck in the mode of my
> > old vehicles. I am a ASE mechanic myself, and we have another one in the
> > family. I asked him what he thought the problem might be, and he couldnt
> > even remember working on the internals of a 3.0L engine.
> > NOW, to add to that issue, at the same time I noticed my coolant

seems
> > to be disappearing into the thin air. I was driving along one night and
> > noticed my temp gage just bottomed out. So I checked my radiator and it
> > was almost bone dry. It took a full gallon of antifreeze to refill the
> > radiator, at the same time I looked at my overflow tank and it was

almost
> > full. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that tank for expansion
> > during hot engine run, and its supposed to pull coolant BACK into the
> > radiator when it cools down? When I pulled the cap off the radiator to
> > refill it, it was under a strong vacuum. I thought there was a valve in
> > the cap that is supposed to allow flow back into the radiator when it
> > cools down??
> >
> > Now here is what I think the problem is, you tell me if I am barking up
> > the wrong tree. I think the two problems are interlaced. I think that

the
> > rough idle when I start the truck on cold days is due to head gasket
> > shrinkage. I also think this shrinkage is causeing air to escape into

the
> > coolant system. I think that this is causing my truck to spew coolant

out
> > of the expansion tank.
> >
> > Let me know what you think. Respond to pkurtz2@cox.net . I appreciate it
> > if anyone has had this issue and found a resolution for it.

>
> Ok here is the skinny guys. I JUST got done doing a head gasket

replacement
> on my truck. The short of it is, that either the intake gasket, or the the
> head gasket was at fault and it has stopped its problem.. Everything works
> as its supposed to. I do think that it was the head gasket. The reason I
> think this is because there is a spot on one of the gaskets where you can
> see a deterioration of the gasket material in between the water jacket
> holed, just outside the fire ring on the #5 cylinder, which also happens

to
> be the cylinder that when I unplug the spark plug, it doesnt change the
> sound of the engine on the cold start.
>
> For the person that said that I needed a new radiator cap, at mininum. I

had
> it checked yesterday, and it is fine. It is rated at 15psi and it is
> releasing at 14.7psi, and thats good enough for me.
>
> Thanks for all the replies guys, and I will try to offer insite where ever

I
> can. I am not going to lie, if I am not there to diagnose the problem,

then
> there is a good chance that I could be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to put

out
> my thoughts and have some folks respond to them..
>
>


Thanks for following up and posting your results! I'm glad you got your
problem fixed.


  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Fordforums Community > USENET NewsGroups > alt.trucks.ford



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:07.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.