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"J. Fartlington Poopnagel" <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138142941.562530.326740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
Oh, that's easy - Japan! It's amazing isn't it? We're having trouble
competing with people who have even higher wages than we do! It's just
incredible. They produce Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's cheaper
here! We (in the US) are their cheaper labor force.
Now just imagine you're in another industry, that competes with the
Chinese!!! Sound fun? Detroit had it easy, believe me. Try to find a U.S.
made TV. About half of the domestic car market is U.S.-made cars. What
percent of the domestic market is held by American-made TV's? clothes?
American-made telephones? Stereos? Hmm?
Those of you tempted to reply to this obvious troll, please don't.
<johnny@.> wrote in message news:riABf.568$dF5.217@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> I'm sure the average Americans you are talking about, are the ones that
> buy Japanese and Chinese Automobiles and other products.
>
> The biggest problem is our government is allowing these products to enter
> the United States, so these cheap people can buy them.
>
Okay, but just remember, this is NOT a partisan issue. Both parties are 100%
sold out on globilization. In American politics, there isn't another
position other than globilization. There are a lot of ignorant people who
will claim that only one party or the other is in favor of it. Ignorance.
Complete stupidity.
Don't you guys remember NAFTA? Democrats were for it, Republicans were for
it, and Perot, running as an independant, was whining like a turbocharger.
What party produced the famous line "You hear that giant sucking sound?"
That's right it was the NONE OF THE ABOVE party. It was the outsiders.
Democrats won and put NAFTA in, but the republicans would have done the
same.
In 04, Dick Gephart offered to run on an isolationist platform in the
primaries, and the Unions didn't even vote for him.
We, as a nation, have no one seriously offering to lead us into
isolationism. Don't be ignorant about this. That is not where we'll be
heading, no matter who leads.
Joe wrote:
> <johnny@.> wrote in message news:riABf.568$dF5.217@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>>I'm sure the average Americans you are talking about, are the ones that
>>buy Japanese and Chinese Automobiles and other products.
>>
>>The biggest problem is our government is allowing these products to enter
>>the United States, so these cheap people can buy them.
>>
>
>
>
> Okay, but just remember, this is NOT a partisan issue. Both parties are 100%
> sold out on globilization. In American politics, there isn't another
> position other than globilization. There are a lot of ignorant people who
> will claim that only one party or the other is in favor of it. Ignorance.
> Complete stupidity.
>
> Don't you guys remember NAFTA? Democrats were for it, Republicans were for
> it, and Perot, running as an independant, was whining like a turbocharger.
> What party produced the famous line "You hear that giant sucking sound?"
> That's right it was the NONE OF THE ABOVE party. It was the outsiders.
> Democrats won and put NAFTA in, but the republicans would have done the
> same.
Clinton was for it not the democratic party. Clinton bought votes from
the democrats with pork barrel projects.
The same thing happened recently with CAFTA, 15 democrats deserted the
party and voted with republicans to pass CAFTA.
This whole mess can be blamed on Bill Clinton, and democrats, that think
more of money that they do of their country.
>
> In 04, Dick Gephart offered to run on an isolationist platform in the
> primaries, and the Unions didn't even vote for him.
>
> We, as a nation, have no one seriously offering to lead us into
> isolationism. Don't be ignorant about this. That is not where we'll be
> heading, no matter who leads.
>
>
>> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage
>> for a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000!
>> Where else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented,
>> unskilled slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that
>> figure?
>
> Oh, that's easy - Japan! It's amazing isn't it? We're having trouble
> competing with people who have even higher wages than we do! It's just
> incredible. They produce Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's
> cheaper here! We (in the US) are their cheaper labor force.
Not even remotely wrong! Japan's autoworker's salaries don't even come
close to half of their American counterparts. They produce "Japanese cars
in the U.S. because it's cheaper here" is not a byproduct of autoworker's
salaries, but a direct result of import tariffs and "Fair Trade" policies
imposed by the US so we can compete. Japanese cars are *assembled* in the
US for the sole reason to get around these unfair taxes an tariffs that
would be added to the car once it hit the shore.
> Now just imagine you're in another industry, that competes with the
> Chinese!!! Sound fun? Detroit had it easy, believe me. Try to find a
> U.S. made TV. About half of the domestic car market is U.S.-made
> cars. What percent of the domestic market is held by American-made
> TV's? clothes? American-made telephones? Stereos? Hmm?
Yes, I agree Detroit had it easy with unfair Union protections for unskilled
and overpaid laborers and the auto industry as a whole basked in all the
protectionism from the US government to keep them afloat. There is no way
in hell that you or I can afford to buy American made products like TVs or
clothes because other countries like China are paying slave wages if they
are paying wages at all.
> Those of you tempted to reply to this obvious troll, please don't.
Troll or not he does bring up some very valid points. Maybe now these
overpaid workers will get a taste of reality when they have to get a job at
Home Depot for $12 an hour telling people what aisle the wax rings for the
toilet are in. As for the same old boring overpriced garbage Detroit is
putting out every year, they will now need to get their act together.
Welcome to the "New World Order" and the "Global Economy" and learn to live
with it.
<johnny@.> wrote in message news:riABf.568$dF5.217@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Whitelightning wrote:
> > "CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" <Fake@ThisOneIsFake.com> wrote in message
> > news:o4KdnRSLiN5oIkvenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >
> >>Sorry, its has nothing to do with globalization. Read and economy book
> >>or two. If this was globalization the Japanese would be getting killed.
> >> Especially considering they are right next door to China. Yet they
> >>are not.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Perhaps you better start turning over the items your buying from
Japanese
> >
> > corporations and look at where they are actually manufactured.
Wednesday
> >
> > they closed the Tokyo stock exchange 20 minutes early, reason given was
> >
> > the computer system was being over whelmed, more likely because the
> >
> > exchange had dropped 464 points. Sony, Panasonic, Pentax to name three
big
> >
> > ones have been off shoring to china for some time. Mitsubishi has as
much
> > built
> >
> > in Korea as they do in Japan. And Mitsubishi is in so much hot water
over
> > the
> >
> > dangerous junk they have been selling its down right scary seeing one of
> > their
> >
> > products on the road next to you. Especially their medium duty trucks
> >
> > It tickles me to no end hearing about the workers who lived ate and
slept
> > the
> >
> > corporation, the emperors replacement, being on the same receiving end
the
> >
> > American manufacturing workers have been since the late 60's. The
japanese
> >
> > corporations are abandoning their workers in record numbers for cheaper
> > labor in china.
> >
> > The only reason there are japanese manufacturing plants in the US is
because
> > they were
> >
> > afraid the import door was about to be slammed in their face, coupled
with
> > the japanese
> >
> > worker demanding higher wages to the point that wages plus
transportation
> > costs made
> >
> > it "economically" viable to manufacture here especialy when the podunck
> > places they built
> >
> > bent over and applied a generous amount of K-Y Jelly to get them to
build
> > there. If
> >
> > GM or Ford tried to get the goverment to build them training facilities,
pay
> > the wages of
> >
> > both the trainies and the instructors, the storm the voters would raise
> > would make
> >
> > all the hurricanes of 2005 combined look like little dust devil. But
Toyota
> > seems to have
> >
> > no problem with the people giving them everything they want and more.
> >
> > I will give the nips some credit tho, I'll bet there will be far fewer
china
> > manufactured
> >
> > cars in Japan then there are American cars sold in Japan.. They are the
> > kings of
> >
> > protectionism, right in front of the Germans. The average american on
the
> > other hand is to damn
> >
> > dumb to cover his own assets.
>
> I'm sure the average Americans you are talking about, are the ones that
> buy Japanese and Chinese Automobiles and other products.
>
> The biggest problem is our government is allowing these products to
> enter the United States, so these cheap people can buy them.
>
> I was listening to Sean Hannity on the radio today, and I couldn't
> believe it, but he said he has always bought American made automobiles,
> and alway will. He said his wife bought a foreign auto and they got in
> a fight about it.
>
> Sean Hannity says he buys American to help American workers!
What's an American auto? I have three Fords made in Mexico, one made in
Canada, and a Nissan made in Tennessee.
It sounds to me like the Nissan is the American one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>CL Gilbert
> >>"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
> >>man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes
> >
> > 9:16
> >
> >
"Rita ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï ¿½ï¿½ï¿½" wrote:
> Joe wrote:
>
>
>>>Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage
>>>for a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000!
>>>Where else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented,
>>>unskilled slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that
>>>figure?
>>
>>Oh, that's easy - Japan! It's amazing isn't it? We're having trouble
>>competing with people who have even higher wages than we do! It's just
>>incredible. They produce Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's
>>cheaper here! We (in the US) are their cheaper labor force.
>
>
> Not even remotely wrong! Japan's autoworker's salaries don't even come
> close to half of their American counterparts. They produce "Japanese cars
> in the U.S. because it's cheaper here" is not a byproduct of autoworker's
> salaries, but a direct result of import tariffs and "Fair Trade" policies
> imposed by the US so we can compete. Japanese cars are *assembled* in the
> US for the sole reason to get around these unfair taxes an tariffs that
> would be added to the car once it hit the shore.
>
>
Honda Accord has the majority of its parts build in the US as well. Its
not just *assembled* here. Its a full US car in every respect except
the OEM. I agree they get around fees like this.
>>Now just imagine you're in another industry, that competes with the
>>Chinese!!! Sound fun? Detroit had it easy, believe me. Try to find a
>>U.S. made TV. About half of the domestic car market is U.S.-made
>>cars. What percent of the domestic market is held by American-made
>>TV's? clothes? American-made telephones? Stereos? Hmm?
>
>
> Yes, I agree Detroit had it easy with unfair Union protections for unskilled
> and overpaid laborers and the auto industry as a whole basked in all the
> protectionism from the US government to keep them afloat. There is no way
> in hell that you or I can afford to buy American made products like TVs or
> clothes because other countries like China are paying slave wages if they
> are paying wages at all.
>
Unfair with respect to what? Certainly not with respect to the bilking
done by ownership and management. They are and have been even more
overpaid.
Well what do you think happens as a result of US protectionism of auto
industry? What is US protectionism anyway? We take our tax dollars and
pay our own wages? Certainly thats got to hurt other US industries that
are in effect subsidising the underperforming auto industry (or any
other protected industry).
Tarrifs? So we take a piece of profit from each imported car.
Obviously this is wonderful incentive to the profit receivers to import
MORE cars. Might as well give the US govt, stock in foreign automakers.
Besides that, trade will always be balanced. Either through debt, or
harm to other industries. You should recognize the dominance of foreign
electronics as being related to the tarrifs on other foreign products.
A country can only buy from foreign countries as much as foreign
countries buy from it. Else there is a trade deficit, which can't last
forever until balance is returned one way or another. (today this facade
of balance comes through Asians purchasing of US debt)
Welfare is welfare. Same results on every level.
>
>>Those of you tempted to reply to this obvious troll, please don't.
>
>
> Troll or not he does bring up some very valid points. Maybe now these
> overpaid workers will get a taste of reality when they have to get a job at
> Home Depot for $12 an hour telling people what aisle the wax rings for the
> toilet are in. As for the same old boring overpriced garbage Detroit is
> putting out every year, they will now need to get their act together.
> Welcome to the "New World Order" and the "Global Economy" and learn to live
> with it.
>
Post makes few valid points. Its full of sophistry. Blame the powerless.
Bill Clinton was smart to pass NAFTA because by the time NAFTA arrived,
Mexico and Canada were already headed toward being irrelevant. So he
really didnt do anything.
Global economy is right. More than anything though what it does is
makes US companies have to compete harder with other US companies. Ford
and GM dont just need to be better than Toyota, they need to be better
than Toyota by as much as IBM is better than its foreign counterpart.
(Given trade is immediately balanced.)
Why should IBM or any other US company help auto companies through US
tax protectionism when in fact IBm is in competition with auto companies
for foreign revenue?
We need good leadership much more than any change in workers. I
actually Like Bill Ford being in control. I have a feeling he cares
about his company (not necessarily people) and will try to make it
right. He may or may not have the skill to do it.
--
Thank you,
CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11tf8jf95cqkg14@corp.supernews.com...
>
> <johnny@.> wrote in message
news:riABf.568$dF5.217@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> > Whitelightning wrote:
> > > "CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" <Fake@ThisOneIsFake.com> wrote in message
> > > news:o4KdnRSLiN5oIkvenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > >
> > >>Sorry, its has nothing to do with globalization. Read and economy
book
> > >>or two. If this was globalization the Japanese would be getting
killed.
> > >> Especially considering they are right next door to China. Yet they
> > >>are not.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps you better start turning over the items your buying from
> Japanese
> > >
> > > corporations and look at where they are actually manufactured.
> Wednesday
> > >
> > > they closed the Tokyo stock exchange 20 minutes early, reason given
was
> > >
> > > the computer system was being over whelmed, more likely because the
> > >
> > > exchange had dropped 464 points. Sony, Panasonic, Pentax to name
three
> big
> > >
> > > ones have been off shoring to china for some time. Mitsubishi has as
> much
> > > built
> > >
> > > in Korea as they do in Japan. And Mitsubishi is in so much hot water
> over
> > > the
> > >
> > > dangerous junk they have been selling its down right scary seeing one
of
> > > their
> > >
> > > products on the road next to you. Especially their medium duty trucks
> > >
> > > It tickles me to no end hearing about the workers who lived ate and
> slept
> > > the
> > >
> > > corporation, the emperors replacement, being on the same receiving
end
> the
> > >
> > > American manufacturing workers have been since the late 60's. The
> japanese
> > >
> > > corporations are abandoning their workers in record numbers for
cheaper
> > > labor in china.
> > >
> > > The only reason there are japanese manufacturing plants in the US is
> because
> > > they were
> > >
> > > afraid the import door was about to be slammed in their face, coupled
> with
> > > the japanese
> > >
> > > worker demanding higher wages to the point that wages plus
> transportation
> > > costs made
> > >
> > > it "economically" viable to manufacture here especialy when the
podunck
> > > places they built
> > >
> > > bent over and applied a generous amount of K-Y Jelly to get them to
> build
> > > there. If
> > >
> > > GM or Ford tried to get the goverment to build them training
facilities,
> pay
> > > the wages of
> > >
> > > both the trainies and the instructors, the storm the voters would
raise
> > > would make
> > >
> > > all the hurricanes of 2005 combined look like little dust devil. But
> Toyota
> > > seems to have
> > >
> > > no problem with the people giving them everything they want and more.
> > >
> > > I will give the nips some credit tho, I'll bet there will be far fewer
> china
> > > manufactured
> > >
> > > cars in Japan then there are American cars sold in Japan.. They are
the
> > > kings of
> > >
> > > protectionism, right in front of the Germans. The average american on
> the
> > > other hand is to damn
> > >
> > > dumb to cover his own assets.
> >
> > I'm sure the average Americans you are talking about, are the ones that
> > buy Japanese and Chinese Automobiles and other products.
> >
> > The biggest problem is our government is allowing these products to
> > enter the United States, so these cheap people can buy them.
> >
> > I was listening to Sean Hannity on the radio today, and I couldn't
> > believe it, but he said he has always bought American made automobiles,
> > and alway will. He said his wife bought a foreign auto and they got in
> > a fight about it.
> >
> > Sean Hannity says he buys American to help American workers!
>
> What's an American auto? I have three Fords made in Mexico, one made in
> Canada, and a Nissan made in Tennessee.
>
> It sounds to me like the Nissan is the American one.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>CL Gilbert
> > >>"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
> > >>man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes
> > >
> > > 9:16
> > >
> > >
>
>
I agree with the original poster. Why in gods name should an unskilled
worker get 65k a year for turning a screw? A monkey could be trained
to do the same thing. I laugh when ford lays off unskilled workers
because they are no longer worth their rate of pay(and never were). If
unions weren't such top management ball busters, maybe this never would
have happened. I laugh when globalization slowly inches its way into
the US, especially in the auto market which has been pampered by the US
government for decades. I just wish I could be there to see the faces
of these 'workers' when they realize what they are really worth when
they have no valuable skills(they never had to worry about it before)
and no degree. Have fun working at a retail outlet for <9 bucks an
hour(which is generous).
"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11tf8jf95cqkg14@corp.supernews.com...
> What's an American auto? I have three Fords made in Mexico, one made in
> Canada, and a Nissan made in Tennessee.
>
> It sounds to me like the Nissan is the American one.
Assembled in America, is different then built in America
If it hadnt been for the uproar the Mustang
clubs raised the late 80's the Ford Probe mazda built piece of shit would
have had
the Mustang badge on it. Chrysler has been in bed with Mitsubishi since the
70's.
Easy to spot Mitsi powered Mopars, their the ones doing duty as mosquito
control
vehicles. You want American, my Caviler, and every other model with the 2.2
ltr
engine and 4 spd automatic transmission made in Tonawanda NY. The only 2
other places the engine/tranny is built is the plant in Tenn., and in
Kiaserslautern Germany.
None of the German engines are used in US cars. So far the little bugger
has been a good vehicle.
we put 45,000 miles on it last year, no problems at all. It aint a rocket
ship, but it can get out
of its own way right handily. She was assembled in Ohio. V-6 engines are
getting
dicey, expect to see Buick V-6 being made at Buick plants to start appearing
here. On side
note, Buick number one selling car in china. Problem is only buicks built
there are being sold there.
Speaking of Ford, RIP Windsor engines.
Will give ford and Chrysler some credit tho, the new Mustang is sharp, the
new Challenger
coming out is absolutely beautiful. The Camero, well, side view is "ok",
the tail is pretty
good, but that nose, is ugly as sin, and reminds me of the mid 70's toyota
celica gt, remember
the one that looked like a 2/3rds 68 mustang fast back with it's "smiley
face"grill? I am
beginning to think GM hired all the un-employed AMC designers.
"anathrax15" <anathrax15@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138227275.198077.122090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I agree with the original poster. Why in gods name should an unskilled
> worker get 65k a year for turning a screw? A monkey could be trained
> to do the same thing. I laugh when ford lays off unskilled workers
> because they are no longer worth their rate of pay(and never were). If
> unions weren't such top management ball busters, maybe this never would
> have happened. I laugh when globalization slowly inches its way into
> the US, especially in the auto market which has been pampered by the US
> government for decades. I just wish I could be there to see the faces
> of these 'workers' when they realize what they are really worth when
> they have no valuable skills(they never had to worry about it before)
> and no degree. Have fun working at a retail outlet for <9 bucks an
> hour(which is generous).
Another one to damn dumb to realize his wages are being paid for by the
services those manufacturing jobs wages buy. I am willing to lay a wager
that anathrax wouldn't last two shifts in a plant, and that's only if he
could
be trained to do the job, and that's a mighty big if in itself.
The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking something of
lesser
value and making something of greater value from it. Everything else is
secondary
profit dependent on the funds generated from the first.
Linear Mode
