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Your sentence makes no sense. First i never told you where I work.
Second of all Factory work isn't hard. If it is, it is reflected in
the wages that are payed. However they are nowhere close to the
inflated salary of 65,000 a year. How are my wages being paid for by
the services manufacturing job wages buy. That sentence makes no
sense, please elaborate. I get paid wages by my employer, I do work
that brings value to the company I work for, and the wage I get payed
reflects that. I don't get overinflated wages that I dont deserve
because unions are worthless and will all go under within the next 20
years.
"The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking
something of
lesser
value and making something of greater value from it."
Beautiful theory, totally undermines neoclassical economic theory, but
whatever. Sounds like a pissed off blue collar worker who is
uneducated, ranting about their lack of job skill. What your referring
to is the manufacturing industry, turning raw materials into finished
goods. Wow your a genius. Ever heard of the service industry?
<johnny@.> wrote in message news:PQzBf.549$dF5.245@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> ThongSmoker wrote:
>> <johnny@.> wrote in message
>> news:WGyBf.288$dF5.149@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>>J. Fartlington Poopnagel wrote:
>>>
>>>>The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>>>>merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>>>>underway for some years.
>>>
>>>Pushed by people like George Bush!
>>
>>
>> Yeah **** Bush, and **** the Unions!
>>
>>
>>>>Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>>>>a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>>>>else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>>>>slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>>>>Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>>>>unwanted products!
>>>
>>>Have you ever heard of overtime you ignorant son of a bitch?
>>
>>
>> You ever heard of they get paid way to ****ing much you cum-dribbling
>> faggot.
>>
>>
>>>>At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>>>>their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>>>>a minimum high-school education.
>>>
>>>So you don't mind paying people with technical skills to tighten bolts?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>>>>$65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>>>>possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>>>>is real good.
>>>
>>>How do you know the posses real skills, and how do you know they have a
>>>real education?
>>>
>>>
>>>>So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>>>>are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>>>>21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>>>>
>>>>Really no surprise.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why don't you go tell that to one of those beer-bellied slobs, you
>>>chickenshit son of a bitch!
>>
>>
>> I do every day.
> I guess you get your ass kicked everyday.
you guessed wrong. fat drunk retarded "beer-bellied slobs" can fight for
shit.
>
> What's an American auto? I have three Fords made in Mexico, one made in
> Canada, and a Nissan made in Tennessee.
>
> It sounds to me like the Nissan is the American one.
>
Hey, Mexico and Canada are also in America :)
--
Thank you,
CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
anathrax15 wrote:
> Your sentence makes no sense. First i never told you where I work.
> Second of all Factory work isn't hard. If it is, it is reflected in
> the wages that are payed. However they are nowhere close to the
> inflated salary of 65,000 a year. How are my wages being paid for by
> the services manufacturing job wages buy. That sentence makes no
> sense, please elaborate. I get paid wages by my employer, I do work
> that brings value to the company I work for, and the wage I get payed
> reflects that. I don't get overinflated wages that I dont deserve
> because unions are worthless and will all go under within the next 20
> years.
>
> "The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking
> something of
> lesser
> value and making something of greater value from it."
>
> Beautiful theory, totally undermines neoclassical economic theory, but
> whatever. Sounds like a pissed off blue collar worker who is
> uneducated, ranting about their lack of job skill. What your referring
> to is the manufacturing industry, turning raw materials into finished
> goods. Wow your a genius. Ever heard of the service industry?
>
Do you have a particular reason to be so hostile to the labor force?
You really are dumping on them. Is management overpaid as well? Or do
you feel managements wages are worth the results? Or do you feel the
management overpayment (if you think there is one) is not as harmful to
the companies?
My personal opinoin is the Unions wont negotiatiate in good faith as
long as management is pulling in million dollar bonuses while
simultaneously trying to tell the union the company cant afford their
wages and benefits.
I think the union will accept cuts before death, but I doubt they can be
convienced the company is dying when they see the $$$ flying around.
--
Thank you,
CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
"anathrax15" <anathrax15@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138240693.964745.21570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Your sentence makes no sense. First i never told you where I work.
> Second of all Factory work isn't hard. If it is, it is reflected in
> the wages that are payed. However they are nowhere close to the
> inflated salary of 65,000 a year. How are my wages being paid for by
> the services manufacturing job wages buy. That sentence makes no
> sense, please elaborate. I get paid wages by my employer, I do work
> that brings value to the company I work for, and the wage I get payed
> reflects that. I don't get overinflated wages that I dont deserve
> because unions are worthless and will all go under within the next 20
> years.
And who pays your boss the money he uses to pay your wages? Let me
guess he has a money tree in his back room and just goes picks it off .
>
> "The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking
> something of
> lesser
> value and making something of greater value from it."
>
> Beautiful theory, totally undermines neoclassical economic theory, but
> whatever. Sounds like a pissed off blue collar worker who is
> uneducated, ranting about their lack of job skill. What your referring
> to is the manufacturing industry, turning raw materials into finished
> goods. Wow your a genius. Ever heard of the service industry?
Again where does the money come from to pay someone in the service industry?
lets look at GM. GM makes a car, sells it. Pays workers wages. Hires a
service
company to transport its vehicles to dealerships. Buys parts to manufacture
more cars.
Hires yet another to bring parts to its manufacturing plants to build more
cars.
Transportation company pays its workers, who in turn buy cars, pay doctors
bills,
hire CPAs, get hair cuts, hey those are all service industries. The parts
manufactures
sell their parts to GM. Pays its workers out of the profits.
Guess what they hire service industry workers. Those workers decide to buy
houses, another
manufacturer, developer pays contractors, masons, etc out of the profits
from the manufacture
and sale of homes, who in turn spend it with workers in the service
industries, as well as
manufacturers.
Not one for liking movies as a source of knowledge or wise sayings, but
college
instructors teach economics, and the only good line tom cruise ever had came
from the
movie "Cocktail" when he told his professor if he really knew anything he
would be
a CEO for a major corporation pulling down 7 figures, instead of a college
professor
earning 40k a year. Those that can, do, those that cant teach. And they
always have to
make things sound 10 times more complicated than they really are.
Blue, collar, not quite, I work in the IT field supporting computerized POS
and inventory control
sytems running on Windows platforms, and about 7 different POS software
platforms covering the west central coast of Florida. Before benifits,
about 57K last year, so cash, I am in the Ford auto worker's range of pay.
I would much rather do
what I do for my wages than what he does. My working conditions are better,
a hell of lot less dangerous, and a hell of a lot less strenuous. On the
flip side, he has way better hours than I do, better medical, and a better
retirement plan.
But blue collar roots run deep in my family and my wifes, members of which
bleed in the streets
to form the unions that improved the working mans life, and as such yours
as well. Daily those
improvements are being chipped away at all the while people like you
applaud.
Me thinks your major issue is those factory workers make more money than you
do. The people
you should be most pissed at aren't the workers, but the upper management,
the ivory tower residents,
and many share holders who care a tinkers damn about the long term, only the
here and now.
There isnt a CEO out there that is worth the millions they get paid.
What does Walmarts CEO do that is worth $22 million dollars a year?
or how about United Health Groups CEO, $58 million last year, plus $114,
552,832 in stock options cashed out last year, with almost.$140 million more
to excersise from previous years(and people wonder why health care is so
high)
Lawerance Johnson, CEO Albertsons, $13.25 million, company was disolved this
week.
William Clay Ford raked in $22,185,692 last year, plus he cashed out
$5,326,527 in stock
options and has another $16,150,975 in unexcerised options. His wages
before unexcercised options would pay the wages of over 400 of Ford's
workers. There is the real greed, but you begrudge the person who makes
that possible a lousy $65,000 a year including benefits.
"Whitelightning" <white.lightning2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:icZBf.9841$zh2.1860@trnddc01...
>
> There isnt a CEO out there that is worth the millions they get paid.
> What does Walmarts CEO do that is worth $22 million dollars a year?
> or how about United Health Groups CEO, $58 million last year, plus $114,
> 552,832 in stock options cashed out last year, with almost.$140 million
more
> to excersise from previous years(and people wonder why health care is so
> high)
> Lawerance Johnson, CEO Albertsons, $13.25 million, company was disolved
this
> week.
> William Clay Ford raked in $22,185,692 last year, plus he cashed out
> $5,326,527 in stock
> options and has another $16,150,975 in unexcerised options. His wages
> before unexcercised options would pay the wages of over 400 of Ford's
> workers. There is the real greed, but you begrudge the person who makes
> that possible a lousy $65,000 a year including benefits.
>
>
CEO compensation, while out of control, is still miniscule compared to the
cost of labor. If Ford lays off 30,000 people, each of whom earns $65K,
the wage savings alone are just shy of $2B. That figure jumps to $3B when
benefits and other labor costs are factored into the equation. The cold
hard fact is that all workers, not just union workers, are experiencing
compensation hits due to foreign competition and labor arbitrage. The
lavish wage and benefits packages UAW workers receive are no longer
sustainable.
One last thing: I am a degreed computer scientist (B.S. and Ph.D.) that has
been in the hi-tech industry for over a quarter of century. In that time,
I have literally seen hundreds of union retreads enter the field only to
leave because their mindsets prevented them from accepting the uncompensated
overtime that comes with being professionally employed. They also could
not handle the "every man for himself" competitive nature of hi-tech
professional employment.
"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" <Fake@ThisOneIsFake.com> wrote in message
news:_fGdnR9_75IcKUreRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
> "Rita ????????????????????????????????????" wrote:
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage
>>>>for a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000!
>>>>Where else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented,
>>>>unskilled slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that
>>>>figure?
>>>
>>>Oh, that's easy - Japan! It's amazing isn't it? We're having trouble
>>>competing with people who have even higher wages than we do! It's just
>>>incredible. They produce Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's
>>>cheaper here! We (in the US) are their cheaper labor force.
>>
>>
>> Not even remotely wrong! Japan's autoworker's salaries don't even come
>> close to half of their American counterparts. They produce "Japanese
>> cars
>> in the U.S. because it's cheaper here" is not a byproduct of autoworker's
>> salaries, but a direct result of import tariffs and "Fair Trade" policies
>> imposed by the US so we can compete. Japanese cars are *assembled* in
>> the
>> US for the sole reason to get around these unfair taxes an tariffs that
>> would be added to the car once it hit the shore.
>>
>>
>
> Honda Accord has the majority of its parts build in the US as well. Its
> not just *assembled* here. Its a full US car in every respect except the
> OEM. I agree they get around fees like this.
>
>
>>>Now just imagine you're in another industry, that competes with the
>>>Chinese!!! Sound fun? Detroit had it easy, believe me. Try to find a
>>>U.S. made TV. About half of the domestic car market is U.S.-made
>>>cars. What percent of the domestic market is held by American-made
>>>TV's? clothes? American-made telephones? Stereos? Hmm?
>>
>>
>> Yes, I agree Detroit had it easy with unfair Union protections for
>> unskilled
>> and overpaid laborers and the auto industry as a whole basked in all the
>> protectionism from the US government to keep them afloat. There is no
>> way
>> in hell that you or I can afford to buy American made products like TVs
>> or
>> clothes because other countries like China are paying slave wages if they
>> are paying wages at all.
>>
>
> Unfair with respect to what? Certainly not with respect to the bilking
> done by ownership and management. They are and have been even more
> overpaid.
>
> Well what do you think happens as a result of US protectionism of auto
> industry? What is US protectionism anyway? We take our tax dollars and
> pay our own wages? Certainly thats got to hurt other US industries that
> are in effect subsidising the underperforming auto industry (or any other
> protected industry).
>
> Tarrifs? So we take a piece of profit from each imported car. Obviously
> this is wonderful incentive to the profit receivers to import MORE cars.
> Might as well give the US govt, stock in foreign automakers.
>
> Besides that, trade will always be balanced. Either through debt, or harm
> to other industries. You should recognize the dominance of foreign
> electronics as being related to the tarrifs on other foreign products.
>
> A country can only buy from foreign countries as much as foreign countries
> buy from it. Else there is a trade deficit, which can't last forever
> until balance is returned one way or another. (today this facade of
> balance comes through Asians purchasing of US debt)
>
> Welfare is welfare. Same results on every level.
>
>
>>
>>>Those of you tempted to reply to this obvious troll, please don't.
>>
>>
>> Troll or not he does bring up some very valid points. Maybe now these
>> overpaid workers will get a taste of reality when they have to get a job
>> at
>> Home Depot for $12 an hour telling people what aisle the wax rings for
>> the
>> toilet are in. As for the same old boring overpriced garbage Detroit is
>> putting out every year, they will now need to get their act together.
>> Welcome to the "New World Order" and the "Global Economy" and learn to
>> live
>> with it.
>>
>
> Post makes few valid points. Its full of sophistry. Blame the powerless.
>
> Bill Clinton was smart to pass NAFTA because by the time NAFTA arrived,
> Mexico and Canada were already headed toward being irrelevant. So he
> really didnt do anything.
>
> Global economy is right. More than anything though what it does is makes
> US companies have to compete harder with other US companies. Ford and GM
> dont just need to be better than Toyota, they need to be better than
> Toyota by as much as IBM is better than its foreign counterpart. (Given
> trade is immediately balanced.)
> Why should IBM or any other US company help auto companies through US tax
> protectionism when in fact IBm is in competition with auto companies for
> foreign revenue?
>
>
> We need good leadership much more than any change in workers. I actually
> Like Bill Ford being in control. I have a feeling he cares about his
> company (not necessarily people) and will try to make it right. He may or
> may not have the skill to do it.
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
>
> CL Gilbert
> "Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
> man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes
> 9:16
lurker wrote:
>>Global economy is right. More than anything though what it does is makes
>>US companies have to compete harder with other US companies. Ford and GM
>>dont just need to be better than Toyota, they need to be better than
>>Toyota by as much as IBM is better than its foreign counterpart. (Given
>>trade is immediately balanced.)
>
>
> A chinese company owns IBM PC's
>
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/fortune...ent_441557.htm
>
>
You mean IBM sold their PC division to a Chinese company. Yes I know.
IBM PCs have been sucking and off the rader for years now. Dell and HP
pretty much put them out to pasture.
--
Thank you,
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
"dnoyeB" <Fake@ThisOneIsFake.com> wrote in message
news:wdWdneQpqKLhVkbeRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> lurker wrote:
>>>Global economy is right. More than anything though what it does is makes
>>>US companies have to compete harder with other US companies. Ford and GM
>>>dont just need to be better than Toyota, they need to be better than
>>>Toyota by as much as IBM is better than its foreign counterpart. (Given
>>>trade is immediately balanced.)
>>
>>
>> A chinese company owns IBM PC's
>>
>> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/fortune...ent_441557.htm
>>
>>
>
> You mean IBM sold their PC division to a Chinese company. Yes I know. IBM
> PCs have been sucking and off the rader for years now. Dell and HP pretty
> much put them out to pasture.
>
> --
> Thank you
It's the truth but it makes me sad
The bigger danger here is that in time, there will be no middle class
America. There will only be those that have it all and those at the bottom.
Look at all of the manufacturing jobs that have left this country. The auto
workers are still here because of strong unions. However, you have to be
able to compete and sell a product for a profit. Because of the world
economy, and equal product selling for less has an advantage. Picture the
US with a social structure like China, Japan or Mexico. Our economy is
dependent of the money spent by all of working America not just a few. With
the middle class going, the same amount of money won't be going back into
the economy. How many new Dollar stores have you seen in you community? Most
of the new jobs available are for the service industry, which only provide
low wages. Even if all of the Auto workers were required to have a degree,
it wouldn't change much. This is especially true since more and more
automation is used on the production line. Should they be paid less for the
type of work performed, maybe? However, we have to be able to make a quality
automobile equal to or better that what's available worldwide.
Ron
"Joe" <Joe@dontspam.net> wrote in message news:mECBf.103$_65.15@fe06.lga...
>
> "J. Fartlington Poopnagel" <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138142941.562530.326740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>
> Oh, that's easy - Japan! It's amazing isn't it? We're having trouble
> competing with people who have even higher wages than we do! It's just
> incredible. They produce Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's cheaper
> here! We (in the US) are their cheaper labor force.
>
> Now just imagine you're in another industry, that competes with the
> Chinese!!! Sound fun? Detroit had it easy, believe me. Try to find a U.S.
> made TV. About half of the domestic car market is U.S.-made cars. What
> percent of the domestic market is held by American-made TV's? clothes?
> American-made telephones? Stereos? Hmm?
>
> Those of you tempted to reply to this obvious troll, please don't.
>
>