I like Volvos and my wife won't buy any other vehicle PS She was secretly
pleased when somebody ran a red light and totalled my Durango last year -
although it got tipped on its side none one in the vehicle got even a
twinge - the power of seatbelts.
Anyway back to the point I must agree with previous comments that for the
price paid Volvo needs to improve its act.
We have had 3 Volvos all bought NEW (1998 960, 2001 S60 and 2004 S80). I
found all 3 have been unusually excessive with bulb failures,and in the
case of the 960 a hopelessly inadequate A/C system and relay problems.
For reference over 40 years I have owned numerous makes of cars including
MB 300CE and 560S, BMW 318 and 535, Jaguar XJ6, Jeep Cherokee, Mazda
RX7RSL, Ford E350 14Pax Vans, Durango, Accord, Chevy Camaro and Monte
Carlo, Simcas, Fiats and 4 Litre R VDPlas. Plus I worked on many different
cars helping my Dad in his car service business back in England (mainly
Simcas, Fiats and Jaguars).
None of these cars had the bulb failure problem, even the LUCAS equipped
Jag !!
Good luck to those of you trying to deal with Volvo's holier than thou
attitude about their vehicle reliability.
Good luck... my girlfriend (who has the volvo with problematic ETS) is
working on a website regarding this problem. Hopefully it will be up
soon. There's also a mailing list: "Volvo VEXED" dedicated to just
this problem (VEXED=Volvo Enthusiasts eXposing Egregius Design).
---------snip---------------------------
Subject: VEXED August 12 Update
Good morning VEXED Group,
Welcome to the dozen or so new members. I'll try to bring you up to
date. First, because of the August 1 release to the Associated Press,
the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has been
inundated with complaints. When I first contacted them I found about
100 complaints. Many were listed a cruise control, electrical failure
or other, but reading the description of the failure you could see that
it was the ETM. Complaint count is now past 300 and NHTSA is calling
back within a day or so. One call back was to a dealer, who reported
that his conversation opened some eyes. It was interesting of all the
people that saw the AP release and where: USA Today, Detroit Free
Press, Denver Post, CBS television and others.
NHTSA was already aware of the problem after my Congresswoman's office
sent them a package of my reports, copies of selected forum posts and a
cover letter telling them to look into this failure. About two weeks
later NHTSA called me. Later they asked for an ETM from me and one from
another VEXED member. I also found that 'NHTSA Man' had been monitoring
the VolvoXC forum. They have asked VOLVO for internal documents that
concern the number of failures, when VOLVO knew of the problem and
similar embarrassing questions. VOLVO is required to furnish this
information to them. NHTSA is now considering stalling and reduced
power (limp-home) a real safety problem. A decision should be
forthcoming in about 5-7 weeks.
I had wanted a web page but, though I had done a couple, I did not
think I was up to this task. Maria, of Princeton, offered to do the
work if I/we would forward text to her. I sent her 12 reports and pages
last Saturday (August 4) and she is getting them up where we can check
them. I have selected a few to help until we get it proofed and off of
her personal web space. I also registered a domain name that I will
release in a few days.
For the new members I have asked for financial help of $10 per VEXED
member. This is to let me buy a new ETM, part number 8644347. This is
the unit that is now being installed. Since they have not begun to fail
we do not have a 'body' to autopsy. One of the group has offered to get
it for me for $400.00. Any remaining balance will be used to recoup my
mileage to Denver, postage, printing and other trivial expenses. So
far I have received just over $100. I am pretty much at a standstill
until the $$ start rolling in.
I am getting 1-2 e-mails a day of persons wanting to be put on the
mailing list.
I talked to Tony Kovaleski, at The DenverChannel, Tuesday (August 9) he
said the segment should run in 10 days. It will say, "See more on
"http://TheDenverChannel.com" which may include the FAQs and will link
to the VEXED web site.
I made an appointment with my Volvo dealer, although I had serious doubts
whether the car was capable of being driven that distance without requiring
a tow. I had tried to restart the car a couple times and the rough idle and
service message persisted. However, the morning of my trek to the
dealership, the car started without any noticable problem, except for some
hesitation the first few uses of the accelerator. I made it to the
dealership without further incident or service warnings.
From the historical codes, an ETM problem was confirmed: ECM 130A and ECM
91CF for intake leak and throttle unit failure (per invoice).
If not for the 5 year / 75K mile extended warranty I had purchased from
Toyota (it was less expensive and provided more coverage that Volvo's
extended warranty program), the total repair costs would have been close to
$1200 USD, which included a mass air flow sensor, throttle body, ETM reload,
gasket, and 1 day's car rental. With the extended warranty, my out of
pocket expenses was about $20 in gasoline, and about 8 hours of my time.
Needless to say, the car is running beautifully since this service was
performed....
I appreciate the feedback and the insight gained from it, and will continue
to monitor this ETM issue with great interest.
-----
Tim Summers
>I have several issues with my 2001 S60 2.4T. Some are minor annoyances to
>which I have learned to adapt my driving; others are to be expected,
>although perhaps not in the ways manifested; and a couple issues have
>surfaced recently that have me concerned. I would appreciate comments or
>suggestions related to any or all of these issues:
>
> 1. Front tires rub the wheel wells near maximum turning radius. I bought
> the 17" wheel package that included wider tires, so I suspect that the car
> isn't quite engineered for this option or that wide of a tire -- or is
> this an issue with all of the tire options? I've adapted by anticipating
> a wider turning radius as I maneuver the vehicle to avoid rubbing.
>
> 2. Car "slams" into gear if accelerating too soon coming out of a turn.
> It doesn't happen every time, but I think I've identified several factors,
> including temperature, duration of braking prior to the turn, and speed.
> The symptom is that if I brake before a turn, ease up on the brake
> entering the turn, then jump immediately to the accelerator, the car will
> sometimes thud and shudder as it engages the appropriate gear. My
> understanding from the manual is that to prolong clutch life, the car is
> taken out of gear when braking (not sure what parameters are around this),
> so I have imagined that too rapid of a transition from brake to
> accelerator under certain circumstances is what is causing the car to slam
> into gear. I have found that if I essentially roll through the turn,
> giving the car a second or two between brake and accelerator, I do not
> encounter this issue. This has also occurred several times when in
> creeping traffic, where I might be using variable pressure on the brake
> pedal as I inch forward slowly. Does this make sense, or have I created
> an elaborate fiction to explain away a defect?
>
> 3. Intermittent position light failure. This vehicle seems to be
> especially hard on its bulbs. I imagined the intermittent nature of this
> problem was due to a broken filament that managed to somehow reconnect,
> perhaps through vibration, and becoming temporarily fused to complete the
> circuit. I had one bulb that routinely would fail and heal itself, until
> it finally did expire. The dealer replaced all of the bulbs. Perhaps two
> or three months later, I had another couple failure/self-healing cycles --
> and haven't had a problem since!
>
> 4. Door locks do not always engage. This has been an intermittent problem
> with only the rear passenger side door. I first believed that maybe the
> electronic motor failed, but after manually lifting and depressing the
> lock plunger, it began again to respond to the key fob and cabin button.
> It has stopped working on several other occasions, but manipulating the
> plunger a few times will resume operation. I imagined it might be a
> lubrication issue, but the plunger seems to move freely without binding.
>
> 5. Cruise Control intermittently disengages when set. I have become quite
> adept at turning on the cruise control and setting the speed in one fluid
> motion. One day, I set the cruise and the car began to slow down. I
> looked and saw that the cruise control was not on. Furthermore, it could
> not be turned on -- it was completely non-responsive. My first assumption
> was that the cruise control assembly on the steering wheel had simply
> failed. However, after turning the car off and restarting it, the cruise
> control was active again. Since then, this failure occurs about 20 - 30%
> of the time, but I have not been able to notice any patterns. It does,
> however, seem to happen with less frequency if I wait 3-4 second after
> turning the cruise control before setting it. What happens is that the
> cruise control indicator will illuminate when cruise control is turned on;
> however, as soon as I set the cruise speed, the indicator goes off and
> this sub-system is dead, until resetting by turning the car off. I had it
> in to the dealer for this problem, and they indicated that the computer
> did not log any events when this happens.
>
> 6. Engine System Service Required indicator; rough idle; stall on restart.
> As described here, this problem appears to be directly related to the
> cruise control issue noted above, as the timing was spot on with
> attempting to set the cruise control. The situation occurred today and
> began as noted above: I turned on the cruise and set it. However, for the
> first time, just as the cruise control disengaged and failed, I
> immediately got the message Engine System Service Required. I was on the
> interstate at the time, and noted no problems with the performance of the
> vehicle. Engine temperature was nominal and no other indicators suggested
> problems involving oil pressure, voltage, etc. No problems were detected
> until I left the interstate and came to about my 4th stop on secondary
> roads. At that point, the engine started to idle very roughly and I
> feared it would stall. Disengaging the A/C allowed the idle to stabilize
> and I continued on to my final destination. When I arrived and turned off
> the car, I full well expected the problem to disappear as readily as the
> cruise control issue has after being reset. However, it did not. The car
> starts with the Engine System Service Required, it idles rough, and even
> with the A/C disengaged, the engine stalls at idle.
>
> -----
>
> Tim Summers
>
> From the historical codes, an ETM problem was confirmed: ECM 130A and ECM
> 91CF for intake leak and throttle unit failure (per invoice).
Did I tell you, or did I tell you
> If not for the 5 year / 75K mile extended warranty I had purchased from
> Toyota (it was less expensive and provided more coverage that Volvo's
> extended warranty program), the total repair costs would have been close to
> $1200 USD, which included a mass air flow sensor, throttle body, ETM reload,
> gasket, and 1 day's car rental. With the extended warranty, my out of
> pocket expenses was about $20 in gasoline, and about 8 hours of my time.
Wise man you are. I bet you gave yourself a BIG slap on the back.
Definitely sounds like the procedure we had to go through this summer,
since we had to change that mass air flow sensor as well with the ETM.
Luckily you didn't have to install a new gerbox. Although, we can now
relax with the issue, since this new gearbox should be the updated,
highly improved version...
> Needless to say, the car is running beautifully since this service was
> performed....
Did you notice any positive change regarding the gas mileage? We had a
significant improvement with ours - around 2 liters less per 100 kms.
> I appreciate the feedback and the insight gained from it, and will continue
> to monitor this ETM issue with great interest.
Same here :o) Have a fantastic week!
--
Kytis
"Isän tärkein tehtävä on kasvattaa tyttärensä niin,
ettei hän huoli paskaa jätkää miehekseen" J.Sarasvuo
I have several issues with my 2001 S60 2.4T. Some are minor annoyances to
which I have learned to adapt my driving; others are to be expected,
although perhaps not in the ways manifested; and a couple issues have
surfaced recently that have me concerned. I would appreciate comments or
suggestions related to any or all of these issues:
1. Front tires rub the wheel wells near maximum turning radius. I bought
the 17" wheel package that included wider tires, so I suspect that the car
isn't quite engineered for this option or that wide of a tire -- or is this
an issue with all of the tire options? I've adapted by anticipating a wider
turning radius as I maneuver the vehicle to avoid rubbing.
2. Car "slams" into gear if accelerating too soon coming out of a turn. It
doesn't happen every time, but I think I've identified several factors,
including temperature, duration of braking prior to the turn, and speed.
The symptom is that if I brake before a turn, ease up on the brake entering
the turn, then jump immediately to the accelerator, the car will sometimes
thud and shudder as it engages the appropriate gear. My understanding from
the manual is that to prolong clutch life, the car is taken out of gear when
braking (not sure what parameters are around this), so I have imagined that
too rapid of a transition from brake to accelerator under certain
circumstances is what is causing the car to slam into gear. I have found
that if I essentially roll through the turn, giving the car a second or two
between brake and accelerator, I do not encounter this issue. This has also
occurred several times when in creeping traffic, where I might be using
variable pressure on the brake pedal as I inch forward slowly. Does this
make sense, or have I created an elaborate fiction to explain away a defect?
3. Intermittent position light failure. This vehicle seems to be especially
hard on its bulbs. I imagined the intermittent nature of this problem was
due to a broken filament that managed to somehow reconnect, perhaps through
vibration, and becoming temporarily fused to complete the circuit. I had
one bulb that routinely would fail and heal itself, until it finally did
expire. The dealer replaced all of the bulbs. Perhaps two or three months
later, I had another couple failure/self-healing cycles -- and haven't had a
problem since!
4. Door locks do not always engage. This has been an intermittent problem
with only the rear passenger side door. I first believed that maybe the
electronic motor failed, but after manually lifting and depressing the lock
plunger, it began again to respond to the key fob and cabin button. It has
stopped working on several other occasions, but manipulating the plunger a
few times will resume operation. I imagined it might be a lubrication
issue, but the plunger seems to move freely without binding.
5. Cruise Control intermittently disengages when set. I have become quite
adept at turning on the cruise control and setting the speed in one fluid
motion. One day, I set the cruise and the car began to slow down. I looked
and saw that the cruise control was not on. Furthermore, it could not be
turned on -- it was completely non-responsive. My first assumption was that
the cruise control assembly on the steering wheel had simply failed.
However, after turning the car off and restarting it, the cruise control was
active again. Since then, this failure occurs about 20 - 30% of the time,
but I have not been able to notice any patterns. It does, however, seem to
happen with less frequency if I wait 3-4 second after turning the cruise
control before setting it. What happens is that the cruise control
indicator will illuminate when cruise control is turned on; however, as soon
as I set the cruise speed, the indicator goes off and this sub-system is
dead, until resetting by turning the car off. I had it in to the dealer for
this problem, and they indicated that the computer did not log any events
when this happens.
6. Engine System Service Required indicator; rough idle; stall on restart.
As described here, this problem appears to be directly related to the cruise
control issue noted above, as the timing was spot on with attempting to set
the cruise control. The situation occurred today and began as noted above:
I turned on the cruise and set it. However, for the first time, just as the
cruise control disengaged and failed, I immediately got the message Engine
System Service Required. I was on the interstate at the time, and noted no
problems with the performance of the vehicle. Engine temperature was
nominal and no other indicators suggested problems involving oil pressure,
voltage, etc. No problems were detected until I left the interstate and
came to about my 4th stop on secondary roads. At that point, the engine
started to idle very roughly and I feared it would stall. Disengaging the
A/C allowed the idle to stabilize and I continued on to my final
destination. When I arrived and turned off the car, I full well expected
the problem to disappear as readily as the cruise control issue has after
being reset. However, it did not. The car starts with the Engine System
Service Required, it idles rough, and even with the A/C disengaged, the
engine stalls at idle.
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