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Old 06-20-2005, 15:02   #1 (permalink)
Randy G.
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Posts: n/a
'93 960 timing belt

Just replaced the timing belt on the 960 (a 1993 with a late '92 set
up, but updated with the rubber mounted exhaust pulley)... [NOTE: no
pulleys were removed during this process]

I evidently either didn't mark things correctly, and/or didn't align
things well before disassembly, and/or the crank shifted during the
process.
I manually turned the motor over twice before starting- no
interference... BUT-
The car has about 20% of the power it had before, and...
When checking the alignment marks now, with the hard-to-see cam marks
aligned to the "V" notches on the plastic top cover, the crank is not
aligned... so two questions before I either stroke out or chase my
tail for the next week:
The timing mark on the crank pully- To verify:
It is the vertical boss on the oil pump at about 11:00 that looks
sort of like "|"...
...and it should align with a) the TINY little notch on the back
edge of the timing belt pulley as well as b) the raised boss on the
aluminum casting of the balancer that also looks like a "|" which is
parallel to the crankshaft and poits to the block.

Now... IF the cams are aligned as stated above, and the crankshaft is
rotated three notches (timing belt, drive-pulley valleys) clockwise,
will there be an interference problem, and will the car run poorly.

My guess is no and yes....

I can't figure how I allowed the cranck to move so far, but as I
stated before, I was hoping to get some input before taking the thing
apart again unnecessarily...

See "Water Pump- 199x 960" for my contribution to the group in thanks
for any and all answers to this problem.

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate
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Old 06-20-2005, 16:01   #2 (permalink)
Glenn Klein
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Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt

Randy G. wrote:
> Just replaced the timing belt on the 960 (a 1993 with a late '92 set
> up, but updated with the rubber mounted exhaust pulley)... [NOTE: no
> pulleys were removed during this process]
>
> I evidently either didn't mark things correctly, and/or didn't align
> things well before disassembly, and/or the crank shifted during the
> process.
> I manually turned the motor over twice before starting- no
> interference... BUT-
> The car has about 20% of the power it had before, and...
> When checking the alignment marks now, with the hard-to-see cam marks
> aligned to the "V" notches on the plastic top cover, the crank is not
> aligned... so two questions before I either stroke out or chase my
> tail for the next week:
> The timing mark on the crank pully- To verify:
> It is the vertical boss on the oil pump at about 11:00 that looks
> sort of like "|"...
> ...and it should align with a) the TINY little notch on the back
> edge of the timing belt pulley as well as b) the raised boss on the
> aluminum casting of the balancer that also looks like a "|" which is
> parallel to the crankshaft and poits to the block.
>
> Now... IF the cams are aligned as stated above, and the crankshaft is
> rotated three notches (timing belt, drive-pulley valleys) clockwise,
> will there be an interference problem, and will the car run poorly.
>
> My guess is no and yes....
>
> I can't figure how I allowed the cranck to move so far, but as I
> stated before, I was hoping to get some input before taking the thing
> apart again unnecessarily...
>
> See "Water Pump- 199x 960" for my contribution to the group in thanks
> for any and all answers to this problem.
>
> __ __
> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
> \__/olvo
> '93 960 Estate

It sounds like you are off a tooth on each cam remove the cover &
recheck your settings to see if they all line up if they do then you
will have to look somewhere else for the problem but if it started after
changing the belt then that is the problem
Glenn

--
"*-344-*Never Forgotten"
Is for the New York City Firemen who lost their lives on September 11,2001.
The official count is 343, but there was also a volunteer who lost his life
aiding in the initial rescue efforts. And I will never forget them as
long as I live,
nor should any American.
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Old 06-20-2005, 16:01   #3 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt

Glenn Klein <Glenn@hotmail.net> wrote:

>Randy G. wrote:
>> Just replaced the timing belt on the 960 (a 1993 with a late '92 set
>> up, but updated with the rubber mounted exhaust pulley)... [NOTE: no
>> pulleys were removed during this process]
>>
>> I evidently either didn't mark things correctly, and/or didn't align
>> things well before disassembly, and/or the crank shifted during the
>> process.
>> I manually turned the motor over twice before starting- no
>> interference... BUT-
>> The car has about 20% of the power it had before, and...
>> When checking the alignment marks now, with the hard-to-see cam marks
>> aligned to the "V" notches on the plastic top cover, the crank is not
>> aligned... so two questions before I either stroke out or chase my
>> tail for the next week:
>> The timing mark on the crank pully- To verify:
>> It is the vertical boss on the oil pump at about 11:00 that looks
>> sort of like "|"...
>> ...and it should align with a) the TINY little notch on the back
>> edge of the timing belt pulley as well as b) the raised boss on the
>> aluminum casting of the balancer that also looks like a "|" which is
>> parallel to the crankshaft and poits to the block.
>>
>> Now... IF the cams are aligned as stated above, and the crankshaft is
>> rotated three notches (timing belt, drive-pulley valleys) clockwise,
>> will there be an interference problem, and will the car run poorly.
>>
>> My guess is no and yes....
>>
>> I can't figure how I allowed the cranck to move so far, but as I
>> stated before, I was hoping to get some input before taking the thing
>> apart again unnecessarily...
>>


>It sounds like you are off a tooth on each cam remove the cover &
>recheck your settings to see if they all line up if they do then you
>will have to look somewhere else for the problem but if it started after
>changing the belt then that is the problem
>


It could be... it is all relative (crank to cam to cam, that is). I
suppose I was thinking the other direction- the cams were right and
the crank is way off. I was also just trying to verify that I was
correctly identifying the crank timing marks.

Thanks, Glenn! I apreciate it!

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate

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Old 06-20-2005, 18:01   #4 (permalink)
Tim..
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Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:808eb1p8h6jtno6k8hpni54kmjuhc4jgpf@4ax.com...
> Just replaced the timing belt on the 960 (a 1993 with a late '92 set
> up, but updated with the rubber mounted exhaust pulley)... [NOTE: no
> pulleys were removed during this process]
>
> I evidently either didn't mark things correctly, and/or didn't align
> things well before disassembly, and/or the crank shifted during the
> process.
> I manually turned the motor over twice before starting- no
> interference... BUT-
> The car has about 20% of the power it had before, and...
> When checking the alignment marks now, with the hard-to-see cam marks
> aligned to the "V" notches on the plastic top cover, the crank is not
> aligned... so two questions before I either stroke out or chase my
> tail for the next week:
> The timing mark on the crank pully- To verify:
> It is the vertical boss on the oil pump at about 11:00 that looks
> sort of like "|"...
> ...and it should align with a) the TINY little notch on the back
> edge of the timing belt pulley as well as b) the raised boss on the
> aluminum casting of the balancer that also looks like a "|" which is
> parallel to the crankshaft and poits to the block.
>
> Now... IF the cams are aligned as stated above, and the crankshaft is
> rotated three notches (timing belt, drive-pulley valleys) clockwise,
> will there be an interference problem, and will the car run poorly.
>
> My guess is no and yes....
>
> I can't figure how I allowed the cranck to move so far, but as I
> stated before, I was hoping to get some input before taking the thing
> apart again unnecessarily...



If the thing ran on all 6 cylinders and smoothly then you have no valves
bent (luckily) . Very low power does sound like the cam timing is out, so I
would firstly very carefully re-check your timing marks.

I would say that if it were some other fault, like a sensor connection or
similar the car would not start, or if it did would misfire and or present
the check engine light.

Tim..


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Old 06-20-2005, 20:02   #5 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt

"Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>If the thing ran on all 6 cylinders and smoothly then you have no valves
>bent (luckily) . Very low power does sound like the cam timing is out, so I
>would firstly very carefully re-check your timing marks.
>
>I would say that if it were some other fault, like a sensor connection or
>similar the car would not start, or if it did would misfire and or present
>the check engine light.
>
>Tim..
>


Hey, Tim and Glenn,

Thanks guys for the replies. It was indeed that the timing was off.
After I installed the belt the first time I rotated the motor over
twice by hand and all was good, but it ran like a 2 cyl. Smooth but no
power and a hesitation upon hitting the throttle.

It was my mistake. When I put the belt back on I had slack on the
right side of the crank (looking at the front of the motor), but I
should have pulled the belt so that all slack was on the tensioner
side. When the tension was taken up it moved the crank and the timing
was WAY off (like three teeth on the crank).

I just re-dood it, checked everyhting carefully, and it runs great.

Next job- PNP switch... ughhh

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:02   #6 (permalink)
Tim..
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:0bpeb1tq9g0de6u2fdd6nfd74orkp0mu3i@4ax.com...
> "Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >If the thing ran on all 6 cylinders and smoothly then you have no valves
> >bent (luckily) . Very low power does sound like the cam timing is out, so

I
> >would firstly very carefully re-check your timing marks.
> >
> >I would say that if it were some other fault, like a sensor connection or
> >similar the car would not start, or if it did would misfire and or

present
> >the check engine light.
> >
> >Tim..
> >

>
> Hey, Tim and Glenn,
>
> Thanks guys for the replies. It was indeed that the timing was off.
> After I installed the belt the first time I rotated the motor over
> twice by hand and all was good, but it ran like a 2 cyl. Smooth but no
> power and a hesitation upon hitting the throttle.
>
> It was my mistake. When I put the belt back on I had slack on the
> right side of the crank (looking at the front of the motor), but I
> should have pulled the belt so that all slack was on the tensioner
> side. When the tension was taken up it moved the crank and the timing
> was WAY off (like three teeth on the crank).



You were very lucky you didnt have a valve / piston soup!

Good luck with the PNP switch!

Tim..


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Old 06-21-2005, 08:01   #7 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: '93 960 timing belt

"Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>You were very lucky you didnt have a valve / piston soup!
>


Actually, luck was not a factor. As I mentioned (and this should be
done by anyone doing this job) when replacing the timing belt it is
very important to rotate the motor by hand before starting. Two
revolutions are recommended. If you encounter a hard stop doing that
then you know you have a problem. If not then the car may not run or
may run poorly, but at least there won't be any damage done.

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate

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