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Old 01-08-2006, 13:02   #1 (permalink)
TonyS
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Posts: n/a
940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure

My brother-in-law's new 1996 940 GLE with 2.3 Turbo B230FK engine has now
developed more serious problems after about 1-2 weeks of driving.

1. When we got the car the oil was full up to the max mark, but there was a
lot of crud in the valve cover area. There seemed to be the usual leaks on
the filler cap and valve cover gasket.
2. The oil light came on and on checking the dip stick showed no oil atall,
after a top up normal operation was resumed.
3. We just serviced it today with flushing oil then semi-synth oil and a
volvo filter, aswell as cleaning the crud from the valve cover and the head
as much as possible, fitting new valve cover gasket and oil filler seal.
There was alot of crud on the tops of the cam bearings, around the side and
in the wells that lub the tappet buckets. Inspecting the turbo pipe to the
intercooler showed a normal amount of oil. (better than either of the Turbos
I have had in my 95 car). 5 min test drive was ok.
3. On the way home the owner saw the oil light on again, stopped for a
while, tried it again and it was still comming on. The oil level seemed ok
but a top up seemed to sort it, but only for a short distance, maybe 10
minutes. He reported some funny noise, maybe squealing but was unclear.
This happen repeatedly on his 25 mile journey home.

I guess its possible we caused some problems with the flakey crud comming
off with the flushing additive and cleaning the top end with a screwdriver
which could be now lodged in the oil pump input filter, but I feel the
initial loss is unexplained and we have just exhaserbated the problem rather
than caused it.

The next time I see the car I will check the oil in the head if it filling
up indicating blocked return, but surely that would be shown by a low oil
level.

My next step seems possibly a flush and short run with diesel, and then pull
out and clean or replace the oil pump. Would this be wasted and does the
engine just need a complete clean and rebuild, say if the return oilways
were blocked?

I get the impression the trader has done something to temporarily get rid of
the problem to sell the car, and will not honour the sale of good act
without a court case. Especially since he sold it 'as is' (I know this is
irrelevant if he sold it for normal use).

--
Tony


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Old 01-08-2006, 14:01   #2 (permalink)
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure

"TonyS" <a@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dprqpf$qpo$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk...
> My brother-in-law's new 1996 940 GLE with 2.3 Turbo B230FK engine has now
> developed more serious problems after about 1-2 weeks of driving.
>
> 1. When we got the car the oil was full up to the max mark, but there was
> a lot of crud in the valve cover area. There seemed to be the usual leaks
> on the filler cap and valve cover gasket.
> 2. The oil light came on and on checking the dip stick showed no oil
> atall, after a top up normal operation was resumed.
> 3. We just serviced it today with flushing oil then semi-synth oil and a
> volvo filter, aswell as cleaning the crud from the valve cover and the
> head as much as possible, fitting new valve cover gasket and oil filler
> seal. There was alot of crud on the tops of the cam bearings, around the
> side and in the wells that lub the tappet buckets. Inspecting the turbo
> pipe to the intercooler showed a normal amount of oil. (better than either
> of the Turbos I have had in my 95 car). 5 min test drive was ok.
> 3. On the way home the owner saw the oil light on again, stopped for a
> while, tried it again and it was still comming on. The oil level seemed
> ok but a top up seemed to sort it, but only for a short distance, maybe 10
> minutes. He reported some funny noise, maybe squealing but was unclear.
> This happen repeatedly on his 25 mile journey home.
>
> I guess its possible we caused some problems with the flakey crud comming
> off with the flushing additive and cleaning the top end with a screwdriver
> which could be now lodged in the oil pump input filter, but I feel the
> initial loss is unexplained and we have just exhaserbated the problem
> rather than caused it.
>
> The next time I see the car I will check the oil in the head if it filling
> up indicating blocked return, but surely that would be shown by a low oil
> level.
>
> My next step seems possibly a flush and short run with diesel, and then
> pull out and clean or replace the oil pump. Would this be wasted and does
> the engine just need a complete clean and rebuild, say if the return
> oilways were blocked?
>
> I get the impression the trader has done something to temporarily get rid
> of the problem to sell the car, and will not honour the sale of good act
> without a court case. Especially since he sold it 'as is' (I know this is
> irrelevant if he sold it for normal use).
>
> --
> Tony
>

I think you are on the right course. Only time will tell if damage has been
done, especially before your brother-in-law took possession. An old trick to
quiet a badly damaged engine is to add sawdust to the crankcase, but that is
only good for a few miles operation. I wonder if that is what has happened
here.

The long term outlook is even dimmer than the short term one. Oil starvation
(which probably occurred even more before the sale and was probably taken
less seriously) is not a good thing at all, especially on a turbo engine.

If you have to get as far as the oil pump, you may do better with a used
engine. With decent maintenance they last almost forever, so any used engine
would be better than what you are describing... especially if sawdust was
used.

Mike


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Old 01-08-2006, 15:02   #3 (permalink)
James Sweet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "TonyS" <a@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dprqpf$qpo$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk...
>
>>My brother-in-law's new 1996 940 GLE with 2.3 Turbo B230FK engine has now
>>developed more serious problems after about 1-2 weeks of driving.
>>
>>1. When we got the car the oil was full up to the max mark, but there was
>>a lot of crud in the valve cover area. There seemed to be the usual leaks
>>on the filler cap and valve cover gasket.
>>2. The oil light came on and on checking the dip stick showed no oil
>>atall, after a top up normal operation was resumed.
>>3. We just serviced it today with flushing oil then semi-synth oil and a
>>volvo filter, aswell as cleaning the crud from the valve cover and the
>>head as much as possible, fitting new valve cover gasket and oil filler
>>seal. There was alot of crud on the tops of the cam bearings, around the
>>side and in the wells that lub the tappet buckets. Inspecting the turbo
>>pipe to the intercooler showed a normal amount of oil. (better than either
>>of the Turbos I have had in my 95 car). 5 min test drive was ok.
>>3. On the way home the owner saw the oil light on again, stopped for a
>>while, tried it again and it was still comming on. The oil level seemed
>>ok but a top up seemed to sort it, but only for a short distance, maybe 10
>>minutes. He reported some funny noise, maybe squealing but was unclear.
>>This happen repeatedly on his 25 mile journey home.
>>
>>I guess its possible we caused some problems with the flakey crud comming
>>off with the flushing additive and cleaning the top end with a screwdriver
>>which could be now lodged in the oil pump input filter, but I feel the
>>initial loss is unexplained and we have just exhaserbated the problem
>>rather than caused it.
>>
>>The next time I see the car I will check the oil in the head if it filling
>>up indicating blocked return, but surely that would be shown by a low oil
>>level.
>>
>>My next step seems possibly a flush and short run with diesel, and then
>>pull out and clean or replace the oil pump. Would this be wasted and does
>>the engine just need a complete clean and rebuild, say if the return
>>oilways were blocked?
>>
>>I get the impression the trader has done something to temporarily get rid
>>of the problem to sell the car, and will not honour the sale of good act
>>without a court case. Especially since he sold it 'as is' (I know this is
>>irrelevant if he sold it for normal use).
>>
>>--
>>Tony
>>

>
> I think you are on the right course. Only time will tell if damage has been
> done, especially before your brother-in-law took possession. An old trick to
> quiet a badly damaged engine is to add sawdust to the crankcase, but that is
> only good for a few miles operation. I wonder if that is what has happened
> here.
>
> The long term outlook is even dimmer than the short term one. Oil starvation
> (which probably occurred even more before the sale and was probably taken
> less seriously) is not a good thing at all, especially on a turbo engine.
>
> If you have to get as far as the oil pump, you may do better with a used
> engine. With decent maintenance they last almost forever, so any used engine
> would be better than what you are describing... especially if sawdust was
> used.
>
> Mike
>
>



Do make sure this is actually a loss of oil pressure though and not just
a defective sensor on the idiot light.
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Old 01-09-2006, 09:01   #4 (permalink)
CMan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure


"TonyS" <a@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dprqpf$qpo$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk...
> My brother-in-law's new 1996 940 GLE with 2.3 Turbo B230FK engine has now
> developed more serious problems after about 1-2 weeks of driving.
>
> 1. When we got the car the oil was full up to the max mark, but there was
> a lot of crud in the valve cover area. There seemed to be the usual leaks
> on the filler cap and valve cover gasket.
> 2. The oil light came on and on checking the dip stick showed no oil
> atall, after a top up normal operation was resumed.
> 3. We just serviced it today with flushing oil then semi-synth oil and a
> volvo filter, aswell as cleaning the crud from the valve cover and the
> head as much as possible, fitting new valve cover gasket and oil filler
> seal. There was alot of crud on the tops of the cam bearings, around the
> side and in the wells that lub the tappet buckets. Inspecting the turbo
> pipe to the intercooler showed a normal amount of oil. (better than either
> of the Turbos I have had in my 95 car). 5 min test drive was ok.
> 3. On the way home the owner saw the oil light on again, stopped for a
> while, tried it again and it was still comming on. The oil level seemed
> ok but a top up seemed to sort it, but only for a short distance, maybe 10
> minutes. He reported some funny noise, maybe squealing but was unclear.
> This happen repeatedly on his 25 mile journey home.
>
> I guess its possible we caused some problems with the flakey crud comming
> off with the flushing additive and cleaning the top end with a screwdriver
> which could be now lodged in the oil pump input filter, but I feel the
> initial loss is unexplained and we have just exhaserbated the problem
> rather than caused it.
>
> The next time I see the car I will check the oil in the head if it filling
> up indicating blocked return, but surely that would be shown by a low oil
> level.
>
> My next step seems possibly a flush and short run with diesel, and then
> pull out and clean or replace the oil pump. Would this be wasted and does
> the engine just need a complete clean and rebuild, say if the return
> oilways were blocked?
>
> I get the impression the trader has done something to temporarily get rid
> of the problem to sell the car, and will not honour the sale of good act
> without a court case. Especially since he sold it 'as is' (I know this is
> irrelevant if he sold it for normal use).
>
> --
> Tony
>


That sounds a bit odd. My 940 B230FT (US Specs) has 175,00 miles on it,
the valve works are almost as clean as the day we bought it brand new.
No crud build up visible. I change the oil every 3K (59 times so far!).

I think your concern is well-founded, and would check into having it (at
least):
1) Checked for proper oil sensor and light operation,
2) Checked to be sure the correct oil and filter were used
(a bad / incorrect filter can cause oil starvation - rarely yes
but it occurs)
3) Change oil and filter again.
4) Have it professionally flushed.
5) Compression test on each cylinder (to check blow-by).

Mechanically our car is quite sound, but the tan cloth seating surfaces
didn't
hold up that well, despite my attention. If anyone has (or knows of) a
93-95 940 wagon with tan leater seats in good shape that are
for sale, post a reply to this note. I am on the mid-Atlantic east coast of
the US.

NCMan


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Old 01-09-2006, 13:01   #5 (permalink)
TonyS
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure



"CMan" <C@CMAN.COM> wrote in message
news:ndvwf.4228$Kp.3597@southeast.rr.com...
>
> That sounds a bit odd. My 940 B230FT (US Specs) has 175,00 miles on it,
> the valve works are almost as clean as the day we bought it brand new.
> No crud build up visible. I change the oil every 3K (59 times so far!).
>

It is very odd, I have a 95 940 Turbo, and have had several 360s with B200
engines, no crude build up in any of them and I tend to use good oil (Mobil
1) and leave the change for 10K (more out of lazyiness). I did recommend
the 940 since the Engine is so bomb proof, but obviously not 'lack of oil
change'-proof.

> I think your concern is well-founded, and would check into having it (at
> least):
> 1) Checked for proper oil sensor and light operation,
> 2) Checked to be sure the correct oil and filter were used
> (a bad / incorrect filter can cause oil starvation - rarely yes
> but it occurs)


I did examine the filter before hand and it is the usual one I get ('all
B200 except 340 desiel' etc). The oil was 15-40 Halfords Part synth.

> 3) Change oil and filter again.
> 4) Have it professionally flushed.
> 5) Compression test on each cylinder (to check blow-by).
>


The oil light is on permanetly now, so I think the only solution is to start
taking off bits until the problem is found. Unfortunately my schedule
doesn't allow me to go over to them to sort it out and they need it fixed
this week, so looks like they will take it to a garage.

--
Tony


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Old 01-09-2006, 21:01   #6 (permalink)
James Sweet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure


>
> The oil light is on permanetly now, so I think the only solution is to start
> taking off bits until the problem is found. Unfortunately my schedule
> doesn't allow me to go over to them to sort it out and they need it fixed
> this week, so looks like they will take it to a garage.
>



If the light is on because there is in fact no oil pressure I wouldn't
bother looking for the problem, just put in a new engine.
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Old 01-10-2006, 06:01   #7 (permalink)
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 940 turbo oil loss and loss of pressure

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8%Fwf.2512$Tn6.1986@trnddc04...
>
>>
>> The oil light is on permanetly now, so I think the only solution is to
>> start taking off bits until the problem is found. Unfortunately my
>> schedule doesn't allow me to go over to them to sort it out and they need
>> it fixed this week, so looks like they will take it to a garage.
>>

>
>
> If the light is on because there is in fact no oil pressure I wouldn't
> bother looking for the problem, just put in a new engine.


I'm afraid that would be the best path to fixing an oil-starved engine if
you can't get satisfaction from the seller; a new (used) engine.

Mike


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