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Old 11-22-2005, 18:01   #1 (permalink)
Paul Colini
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Pulsating Brakes

I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight and
it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is some)
but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other suspension
component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the car
has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Confused


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Old 11-22-2005, 18:01   #2 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

"Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote:

>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
>square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
>persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight and
>it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is some)
>but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
>brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
>too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
>What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
>Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
>Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other suspension
>component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the car
>has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
>back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>Confused
>


If it is only when the brake are warmed up then I too would suspect a
bad rotor. Any good suspension shop should be able to rule out most
other causes such as bad steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn
suspension bushings, etc.

Although unlikely, it could be dripping brake fluid on the drums, but
that is a stretch of the imagination.

New rotors do warp, and this is more likely with cheap after-market
rotors and those which have been improperly installed or over- torqued
wheels.

You might want to try cross-drilled rotors which dissipate heat more
efficiently and reduce the chances of warping.

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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Old 11-22-2005, 20:01   #3 (permalink)
Brian V
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes


"Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote in message
news:4383c8ec_2@news.cybersurf.net...
>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
> square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
> persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight
> and
> it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is
> some)
> but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
> brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
> too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
> What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
> Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
> Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other
> suspension
> component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the
> car
> has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
> back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Confused
>
>


If you feel it in your ass and not really the wheel it's from the rear end
most likely. You mention replacing the front....but don't mention the rear.
If the rear is disk as well it could very well be warped or have a heavy
ridge. The ebrake uses a mini drum inside the rear disk.


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Old 11-22-2005, 20:01   #4 (permalink)
James Sweet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

Paul Colini wrote:
> I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
> square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
> persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight and
> it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is some)
> but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
> brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
> too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
> What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
> Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
> Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other suspension
> component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the car
> has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
> back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Confused
>
>



Check the rear discs, if they're warped you'll get exactly those symptoms.
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Old 11-23-2005, 04:01   #5 (permalink)
Steve
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

Wheel bearings? Worn/distorted spindles?
Probably not the cause, but to eliminate a factor did you replace the pads
when they did the rotors?

"Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote in message
news:4383c8ec_2@news.cybersurf.net...
> I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
> square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
> persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight

and
> it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is

some)
> but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
> brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
> too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
> What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
> Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
> Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other

suspension
> component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the

car
> has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
> back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Confused
>
>



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Old 11-25-2005, 02:01   #6 (permalink)
AB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

Be careful if tempted to use drilled discs - they have a nasty habit of
cracking around the holes.
If you do want cross drilled discs use ones where the hole is cast in as
opposed to driled as they have much higher resistance to cracks.
Alternatively try using grooved discs - much the same effect as drilled but
with none of the cracking problems.

As regards the issue reported, look at the discs to see if there are spots
of dark material on the disc... this is known as pad transfer and can cause
the same problem you were describing.
There is a very good discussion of brakes and pads at
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...akedisk.shtml#

Alastair.

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:61j7o1pv8gnd9v9jc4hg4qb75q8j5sj2md@4ax.com...
> "Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote:
>
>>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
>>square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
>>persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight
>>and
>>it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is
>>some)
>>but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
>>brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
>>too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
>>What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
>>Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
>>Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other
>>suspension
>>component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the
>>car
>>has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
>>back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>Confused
>>

>
> If it is only when the brake are warmed up then I too would suspect a
> bad rotor. Any good suspension shop should be able to rule out most
> other causes such as bad steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn
> suspension bushings, etc.
>
> Although unlikely, it could be dripping brake fluid on the drums, but
> that is a stretch of the imagination.
>
> New rotors do warp, and this is more likely with cheap after-market
> rotors and those which have been improperly installed or over- torqued
> wheels.
>
> You might want to try cross-drilled rotors which dissipate heat more
> efficiently and reduce the chances of warping.
>
> __ __
> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
> \__/olvos
> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
> "Shelby" & "Kate"



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Old 11-25-2005, 08:02   #7 (permalink)
mdrawson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

I had a persistent problem like this on my "91 940, and it didn't go away
even after I replaced all the brake parts. What did seem to make it go away
was being absolutely sure the wheels themselves were tightened to the
specified torque. On my car, at least, the specified torque is surprisingly
low, and unless you call that to the attention of whomever is installing
your wheels (which I switch twice a year to install mounted snows/summers),
they tend to tighten randomly (apparently). Since I've been insisting on
the correct torque in foot-pounds as stated in the owner's manual, I've not
had the shuddering problem.

"AB" <noway@nohow.com> wrote in message news:4386d8fd@212.67.96.135...
> Be careful if tempted to use drilled discs - they have a nasty habit of
> cracking around the holes.
> If you do want cross drilled discs use ones where the hole is cast in as
> opposed to driled as they have much higher resistance to cracks.
> Alternatively try using grooved discs - much the same effect as drilled
> but with none of the cracking problems.
>
> As regards the issue reported, look at the discs to see if there are spots
> of dark material on the disc... this is known as pad transfer and can
> cause the same problem you were describing.
> There is a very good discussion of brakes and pads at
> http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...akedisk.shtml#
>
> Alastair.
>
> "Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
> news:61j7o1pv8gnd9v9jc4hg4qb75q8j5sj2md@4ax.com...
>> "Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
>>>square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
>>>persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight
>>>and
>>>it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is
>>>some)
>>>but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
>>>brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do
>>>it
>>>too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
>>>What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
>>>Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
>>>Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other
>>>suspension
>>>component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the
>>>car
>>>has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
>>>back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>>Confused
>>>

>>
>> If it is only when the brake are warmed up then I too would suspect a
>> bad rotor. Any good suspension shop should be able to rule out most
>> other causes such as bad steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn
>> suspension bushings, etc.
>>
>> Although unlikely, it could be dripping brake fluid on the drums, but
>> that is a stretch of the imagination.
>>
>> New rotors do warp, and this is more likely with cheap after-market
>> rotors and those which have been improperly installed or over- torqued
>> wheels.
>>
>> You might want to try cross-drilled rotors which dissipate heat more
>> efficiently and reduce the chances of warping.
>>
>> __ __
>> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
>> \__/olvos
>> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
>> "Shelby" & "Kate"

>
>



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Old 11-25-2005, 11:01   #8 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

I believe that you will find the correct torque stamped into the dust
cover over the front wheel bearings.



"mdrawson" <mdrawson@cox.net> wrote:
>
>I had a persistent problem like this on my "91 940, and it didn't go away
>even after I replaced all the brake parts. What did seem to make it go away
>was being absolutely sure the wheels themselves were tightened to the
>specified torque. On my car, at least, the specified torque is surprisingly
>low, and unless you call that to the attention of whomever is installing
>your wheels (which I switch twice a year to install mounted snows/summers),
>they tend to tighten randomly (apparently). Since I've been insisting on
>the correct torque in foot-pounds as stated in the owner's manual, I've not
>had the shuddering problem.
>
>"AB" <noway@nohow.com> wrote in message news:4386d8fd@212.67.96.135...
>> Be careful if tempted to use drilled discs - they have a nasty habit of
>> cracking around the holes.
>> If you do want cross drilled discs use ones where the hole is cast in as
>> opposed to driled as they have much higher resistance to cracks.
>> Alternatively try using grooved discs - much the same effect as drilled
>> but with none of the cracking problems.
>>
>> As regards the issue reported, look at the discs to see if there are spots
>> of dark material on the disc... this is known as pad transfer and can
>> cause the same problem you were describing.
>> There is a very good discussion of brakes and pads at
>> http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...akedisk.shtml#
>>
>> Alastair.
>>
>> "Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:61j7o1pv8gnd9v9jc4hg4qb75q8j5sj2md@4ax.com...
>>> "Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
>>>>square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
>>>>persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight
>>>>and
>>>>it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is
>>>>some)
>>>>but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
>>>>brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do
>>>>it
>>>>too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
>>>>What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
>>>>Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
>>>>Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other
>>>>suspension
>>>>component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the
>>>>car
>>>>has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
>>>>back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>>>Confused
>>>>
>>>
>>> If it is only when the brake are warmed up then I too would suspect a
>>> bad rotor. Any good suspension shop should be able to rule out most
>>> other causes such as bad steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn
>>> suspension bushings, etc.
>>>
>>> Although unlikely, it could be dripping brake fluid on the drums, but
>>> that is a stretch of the imagination.
>>>
>>> New rotors do warp, and this is more likely with cheap after-market
>>> rotors and those which have been improperly installed or over- torqued
>>> wheels.
>>>
>>> You might want to try cross-drilled rotors which dissipate heat more
>>> efficiently and reduce the chances of warping.
>>>
>>> __ __
>>> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
>>> \__/olvos
>>> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
>>> "Shelby" & "Kate"

>>
>>

>


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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Old 11-25-2005, 16:01   #9 (permalink)
Peter K L Milnes
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

That is so Randy and it is quoted as 85Nm (63lbsft). It is exactly the same
for my caravan wheels (UK 1992 Lunar Clubman 400/2)

All the best, Peter.

700/900/90 Register Keeper,
Volvo Owners Club (UK).

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:n8heo15962freeucuc7a3evve53k8hrg8o@4ax.com...
>I believe that you will find the correct torque stamped into the dust
> cover over the front wheel bearings.
>
>
>
> "mdrawson" <mdrawson@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>I had a persistent problem like this on my "91 940, and it didn't go away
>>even after I replaced all the brake parts. What did seem to make it go
>>away
>>was being absolutely sure the wheels themselves were tightened to the
>>specified torque. On my car, at least, the specified torque is
>>surprisingly
>>low, and unless you call that to the attention of whomever is installing
>>your wheels (which I switch twice a year to install mounted
>>snows/summers),
>>they tend to tighten randomly (apparently). Since I've been insisting on
>>the correct torque in foot-pounds as stated in the owner's manual, I've
>>not
>>had the shuddering problem.
>>
>>"AB" <noway@nohow.com> wrote in message news:4386d8fd@212.67.96.135...
>>> Be careful if tempted to use drilled discs - they have a nasty habit of
>>> cracking around the holes.
>>> If you do want cross drilled discs use ones where the hole is cast in as
>>> opposed to driled as they have much higher resistance to cracks.
>>> Alternatively try using grooved discs - much the same effect as drilled
>>> but with none of the cracking problems.
>>>
>>> As regards the issue reported, look at the discs to see if there are
>>> spots
>>> of dark material on the disc... this is known as pad transfer and can
>>> cause the same problem you were describing.
>>> There is a very good discussion of brakes and pads at
>>> http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...akedisk.shtml#
>>>
>>> Alastair.
>>>
>>> "Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:61j7o1pv8gnd9v9jc4hg4qb75q8j5sj2md@4ax.com...
>>>> "Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
>>>>>square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the
>>>>>problem
>>>>>persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight
>>>>>and
>>>>>it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is
>>>>>some)
>>>>>but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when
>>>>>the
>>>>>brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do
>>>>>it
>>>>>too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is
>>>>>gone.
>>>>>What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
>>>>>Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
>>>>>Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other
>>>>>suspension
>>>>>component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once
>>>>>the
>>>>>car
>>>>>has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front
>>>>>or
>>>>>back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>>>>Confused
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it is only when the brake are warmed up then I too would suspect a
>>>> bad rotor. Any good suspension shop should be able to rule out most
>>>> other causes such as bad steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn
>>>> suspension bushings, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Although unlikely, it could be dripping brake fluid on the drums, but
>>>> that is a stretch of the imagination.
>>>>
>>>> New rotors do warp, and this is more likely with cheap after-market
>>>> rotors and those which have been improperly installed or over- torqued
>>>> wheels.
>>>>
>>>> You might want to try cross-drilled rotors which dissipate heat more
>>>> efficiently and reduce the chances of warping.
>>>>
>>>> __ __
>>>> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
>>>> \__/olvos
>>>> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
>>>> "Shelby" & "Kate"
>>>
>>>

>>

>
> __ __
> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
> \__/olvos
> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
> "Shelby" & "Kate"



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Old 11-25-2005, 17:01   #10 (permalink)
Paul Colini
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pulsating Brakes

Thanks to everyone for all your input-I guess I'm off to buy a torque
wrench!
"Paul Colini" <paulcoli@windsor.igs.net> wrote in message
news:4383c8ec_2@news.cybersurf.net...
> I have a '91 240 with 100 000 miles on it and feels like I'm riding on
> square tires when I brake. I had the front rotors changed but the problem
> persisits. Wheels were balanced-no difference. The front end is tight

and
> it's not so much a vibration at the steering wheel (although there is

some)
> but you can feel it in the seat of your pants. It does it only when the
> brakes have warmed up so I suspected a warped rotor but the new ones do it
> too. I tried braking with the emergency brakes and the problem is gone.
> What else could cause the shaking other than what I've mentioned?
> Also whenever it is cold it lets out a groan whenever I go over a bump.
> Doesn't feel like something is loose but either a shock or other

suspension
> component is worn out and metal is scrubbing metal. Not as bad once the

car
> has been driven for a while. Difficult to isolate if coming from front or
> back. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Confused
>
>



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