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Old 09-12-2005, 18:01   #1 (permalink)
Randy G.
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Still trying to get it running right

My 240's performace is degrading, and I haven't even had it on teh
road for a week. Been trying to run down a problem, but no luck.

SYMPTOMS- it will start, rev to 2000 rpm, stay there for a bit, then
either die, or when warmed up a bit the RPM drops from teh 200 point
to about nil, baerely running, then revs agan, then drops, etc.
SOmetimes it "stabilizes at a round 100-1150rpm, and other tims
bumbles around 200rpm or so unless reved up a little. Revving the
motor seems to cause it to get lean, and repeatedly depressing and
releasing the motor gets it dunning to higher speed more smoothly, but
it is running rough. O2 sensor reporting the mixture incorrectly?

It is not in "limp" mde. I verified that by disconnecting the AMM and
starting the car. it ran in limp mode, and you could smell the
richness of the mixture. At that point it actually did set a "CHECK
ENGINE" light and post a 1-2-1 code. I turned off the car, reconnected
the AMM, cleared the code, and it was back to the original poor
running car, but it has not been posting an AMM fault (as it had been
in earlier posts).

I have checked the brake booster, and it holds vacuum for (literally)
hours. Cleaned the AMM and its contacts, cleaned the IAC and its
contacts, cleaned the contacts on the throttle position switch,
cleaned the.. well you get the idea. I also did the two tests on the
AMM as described in the Bentley.

At this point the frustration is such that if I could get it to drive
decently I would take it in to the mechanic I live about 30 rural
miles away).

I guess I am venting as much as looking for ideas... I suppose I can
open the throttle body and check the shaft seal, and I could do a
compression check just to make sure (but there is not excessive blowby
or crankcase pressure)..

I did spray WD-40 about (around teh injectors, intake, throttle body,
etc., but found no leaks.

Computer coolant temperature sensor? There are no errors for it
posted. It is a bitch to get to and get out.. :-/

Arghhh...... I want my car back!


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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Old 09-12-2005, 19:01   #2 (permalink)
jg
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Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:jg7ci15dvpkreasv02df26s8glgrenlov9@4ax.com...
> My 240's performace is degrading, and I haven't even had it on teh
> road for a week. Been trying to run down a problem, but no luck.
>
> SYMPTOMS- it will start, rev to 2000 rpm, stay there for a bit, then
> either die, or when warmed up a bit the RPM drops from teh 200 point
> to about nil, baerely running, then revs agan, then drops, etc.
> SOmetimes it "stabilizes at a round 100-1150rpm, and other tims
> bumbles around 200rpm or so unless reved up a little. Revving the
> motor seems to cause it to get lean, and repeatedly depressing and

..............
blocked exhaust or cat converter?


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Old 09-12-2005, 20:01   #3 (permalink)
Glenn Klein
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

Randy G. wrote:
> My 240's performace is degrading, and I haven't even had it on teh
> road for a week. Been trying to run down a problem, but no luck.
>
> SYMPTOMS- it will start, rev to 2000 rpm, stay there for a bit, then
> either die, or when warmed up a bit the RPM drops from teh 200 point
> to about nil, baerely running, then revs agan, then drops, etc.
> SOmetimes it "stabilizes at a round 100-1150rpm, and other tims
> bumbles around 200rpm or so unless reved up a little. Revving the
> motor seems to cause it to get lean, and repeatedly depressing and
> releasing the motor gets it dunning to higher speed more smoothly, but
> it is running rough. O2 sensor reporting the mixture incorrectly?
>
> It is not in "limp" mde. I verified that by disconnecting the AMM and
> starting the car. it ran in limp mode, and you could smell the
> richness of the mixture. At that point it actually did set a "CHECK
> ENGINE" light and post a 1-2-1 code. I turned off the car, reconnected
> the AMM, cleared the code, and it was back to the original poor
> running car, but it has not been posting an AMM fault (as it had been
> in earlier posts).
>
> I have checked the brake booster, and it holds vacuum for (literally)
> hours. Cleaned the AMM and its contacts, cleaned the IAC and its
> contacts, cleaned the contacts on the throttle position switch,
> cleaned the.. well you get the idea. I also did the two tests on the
> AMM as described in the Bentley.
>
> At this point the frustration is such that if I could get it to drive
> decently I would take it in to the mechanic I live about 30 rural
> miles away).
>
> I guess I am venting as much as looking for ideas... I suppose I can
> open the throttle body and check the shaft seal, and I could do a
> compression check just to make sure (but there is not excessive blowby
> or crankcase pressure)..
>
> I did spray WD-40 about (around teh injectors, intake, throttle body,
> etc., but found no leaks.
>
> Computer coolant temperature sensor? There are no errors for it
> posted. It is a bitch to get to and get out.. :-/
>
> Arghhh...... I want my car back!
>
>
> __ __
> Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
> \__/olvos
> '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
> "Shelby" & "Kate"

What codes if any are present on A6 which is the Ignition Side
Did you check the fresh air pipe from the MAF sensor to the throttle
Body this hose does crack & may be a cause of your problem
Glenn K

--
"*-344-*Never Forgotten"
Is for the New York City Firemen who lost their lives on September 11,2001.
The official count is 343, but there was also a volunteer who lost his life
aiding in the initial rescue efforts. And I will never forget them as
long as I live,
nor should any American.
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Old 09-12-2005, 23:02   #4 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

"jg" <jg@nospam.com> wrote:


>.............
>blocked exhaust or cat converter?
>

I don't think so- once it gets up in RPM (and greatly increased
exhaust volume) it runs OK- not great, but OK.

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 23:02   #5 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

Glenn Klein <Glenn@hotmail.net> wrote:

>What codes if any are present on A6 which is the Ignition Side
>Did you check the fresh air pipe from the MAF sensor to the throttle
>Body this hose does crack & may be a cause of your problem


I have checked both the A2 and A6 codes numerous times and have gotten
no A6 codes, and with the A2 exceptions I have noted previously, none
are reported there either.

I have previously removed the hose from the MFA to throttle body and
shoved my florescent trouble light through it to look for leaks, and
found some very small wear spots, and only one showed any evidence of
leakage (about a 2-3 mm long, .5mm wide opening that only opened a bit
when the hose was stretched). I pactched all the thin spots with
plastic epoxy. I think I will remove the throttle body again to check
the shaft seal, and will check the hose again.

It would be a lot easier if the bad part just failed completely, or if
a code was posted.. Ughhhh... :-(

I threw a timing light on it today and the timing looked OK- advancing
when the throttle was opened to cause the RPMs to increase.

It does seem to run a bit better once it warms up than when it is
cold, but I haven't warmed it up all the way yet (becasue of how
poorly it is running), but that might be the next thing to try. Might
point towards the temperature sensor... or not...


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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Old 09-13-2005, 00:01   #6 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

Glenn Klein <Glenn@hotmail.net> wrote:

>What codes if any are present on A6 which is the Ignition Side
>Did you check the fresh air pipe from the MAF sensor to the throttle
>Body this hose does crack & may be a cause of your problem


I have checked both the A2 and A6 codes numerous times and have gotten
no A6 codes, and with the A2 exceptions I have noted previously, none
are reported there either.

I have previously removed the hose from the MFA to throttle body and
shoved my florescent trouble light through it to look for leaks, and
found some very small wear spots, and only one showed any evidence of
leakage (about a 2-3 mm long, .5mm wide opening that only opened a bit
when the hose was stretched). I pactched all the thin spots with
plastic epoxy. I think I will remove the throttle body again to check
the shaft seal, and will check the hose again.

It would be a lot easier if the bad part just failed completely, or if
a code was posted.. Ughhhh... :-(

I threw a timing light on it today and the timing looked OK- advancing
when the throttle was opened to cause the RPMs to increase.

It does seem to run a bit better once it warms up than when it is
cold, but I haven't warmed it up all the way yet (becasue of how
poorly it is running), but that might be the next thing to try. Might
point towards the temperature sensor... or not...


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:01   #7 (permalink)
Tim..
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Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:jg7ci15dvpkreasv02df26s8glgrenlov9@4ax.com...
> My 240's performace is degrading, and I haven't even had it on teh
> road for a week. Been trying to run down a problem, but no luck.
>
> SYMPTOMS- it will start, rev to 2000 rpm, stay there for a bit, then
> either die, or when warmed up a bit the RPM drops from teh 200 point
> to about nil, baerely running, then revs agan, then drops, etc.
> SOmetimes it "stabilizes at a round 100-1150rpm, and other tims
> bumbles around 200rpm or so unless reved up a little. Revving the
> motor seems to cause it to get lean, and repeatedly depressing and
> releasing the motor gets it dunning to higher speed more smoothly, but
> it is running rough. O2 sensor reporting the mixture incorrectly?
>
> It is not in "limp" mde. I verified that by disconnecting the AMM and
> starting the car. it ran in limp mode, and you could smell the
> richness of the mixture. At that point it actually did set a "CHECK
> ENGINE" light and post a 1-2-1 code. I turned off the car, reconnected
> the AMM, cleared the code, and it was back to the original poor
> running car, but it has not been posting an AMM fault (as it had been
> in earlier posts).
>
> I have checked the brake booster, and it holds vacuum for (literally)
> hours. Cleaned the AMM and its contacts, cleaned the IAC and its
> contacts, cleaned the contacts on the throttle position switch,
> cleaned the.. well you get the idea. I also did the two tests on the
> AMM as described in the Bentley.
>
> At this point the frustration is such that if I could get it to drive
> decently I would take it in to the mechanic I live about 30 rural
> miles away).
>
> I guess I am venting as much as looking for ideas... I suppose I can
> open the throttle body and check the shaft seal, and I could do a
> compression check just to make sure (but there is not excessive blowby
> or crankcase pressure)..
>


Do you have EGR ? Symptoms sound like a stuck open EGR valve??

Tim..


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Old 09-13-2005, 03:01   #8 (permalink)
jg
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right


"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote in message
news:u8nci1t73001ami31ju38eml0jbtna904c@4ax.com...
> "jg" <jg@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> >.............
> >blocked exhaust or cat converter?
> >

> I don't think so- once it gets up in RPM (and greatly increased
> exhaust volume) it runs OK- not great, but OK.
>

That's just what a car I had, did, that's why I suggested it. After some
time as an asthmatic at higher revs it would not idle well, then finally
would not start.


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Old 09-13-2005, 09:02   #9 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

Glenn Klein <Glenn@hotmail.net> wrote:

>What codes if any are present on A6 which is the Ignition Side
>Did you check the fresh air pipe from the MAF sensor to the throttle
>Body this hose does crack & may be a cause of your problem


I have checked both the A2 and A6 codes numerous times and have gotten
no A6 codes, and with the A2 exceptions I have noted previously, none
are reported there either.

I have previously removed the hose from the MFA to throttle body and
shoved my florescent trouble light through it to look for leaks, and
found some very small wear spots, and only one showed any evidence of
leakage (about a 2-3 mm long, .5mm wide opening that only opened a bit
when the hose was stretched). I pactched all the thin spots with
plastic epoxy. I think I will remove the throttle body again to check
the shaft seal, and will check the hose again.

It would be a lot easier if the bad part just failed completely, or if
a code was posted.. Ughhhh... :-(

I threw a timing light on it today and the timing looked OK- advancing
when the throttle was opened to cause the RPMs to increase.

It does seem to run a bit better once it warms up than when it is
cold, but I haven't warmed it up all the way yet (becasue of how
poorly it is running), but that might be the next thing to try. Might
point towards the temperature sensor... or not...


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2005, 09:02   #10 (permalink)
Randy G.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Still trying to get it running right

"Tim.." <the.farm.hates.spam@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>
>Do you have EGR ? Symptoms sound like a stuck open EGR valve??
>
>

Yes I do have EGR- will check that out... THANKS!


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
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