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Old 04-14-2005, 20:01   #1 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
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Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Hi...

Was just wondering something. For the longest while, all European cars that
I know of have had low wattage red running lights, higher wattage red brake
lights that came on overtop of the running lights, or in a separate part of
the cluster, a spot for a foglight or two *unless North American special
spec, clear reverse... but here is where they would differenciate from North
America - always a separate clear or amber coloured cluster, and an amber or
yellow bulb for turn signals....

BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American car
style... Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or are we
getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta wagon,
Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer Audi's.

Peronsally I think amber signal lights are far more readily visible in all
weather/conditions, I like plain, straightforward segmented lighting like
you see on something like a Golf, or a Volvo.


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Old 04-14-2005, 21:01   #2 (permalink)
athol
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Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:

> BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
> combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American car
> style...


Yuck!

> Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
> signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or are we
> getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta wagon,
> Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer Audi's.


They are north american specific. In the real world outside the insulated
FMVSS lunacy, red rear indicators have been banned for many decades.

Similarly, front parking lights in the rest of the world are white not
yellow, and the light patterns of headlights are far more effective.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
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Old 04-15-2005, 14:02   #3 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
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Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

So you're telling me, that on the new Jetta (where this actually stemmed
from after looking at one at the dealer... as we own 2 VW's as well as a
Volvo) where 1/2 of the outside round lamp is a red indicator lamp, that in
Europe it will have to be amber?.... Guess if I end up buying one, i'd buy
some European lights for it (I think red's look ugly for one, and are not as
effective, for two).... This swings my what new car to get descision more to
the Volvo S40, which I can get for just a bit more then a new Jetta (Ford
X-plan, thru Magna Int') - I like the S40 in general better - but I'm
worried about the stigma as a luxury brand affecting my insurance premiums
(since I'll be 22 or so if I get the car sometime in the next 18 months)...
I like the Jetta interior better (tho the Volvo one is probably technically
better: better seats, nicer radio, cleaner design).
"athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:1113532948.444646@idlweb...
> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
>> combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American car
>> style...

>
> Yuck!
>
>> Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
>> signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or are
>> we
>> getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta wagon,
>> Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer Audi's.

>
> They are north american specific. In the real world outside the insulated
> FMVSS lunacy, red rear indicators have been banned for many decades.
>
> Similarly, front parking lights in the rest of the world are white not
> yellow, and the light patterns of headlights are far more effective.
>
> --
> Athol
> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.



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Old 04-15-2005, 19:01   #4 (permalink)
Peter K L Milnes
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Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Out of interest Rob, the red turn signals come from the earlier American
cars which had huge light displays at the rear. One side would flash for a
turn and both sides would come on when braking. Thus all rear facing lamps
were red.

Cheers, Peter.

"Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:gwU7e.6497$MZ2.927052@news20.bellglobal.com...
> So you're telling me, that on the new Jetta (where this actually stemmed
> from after looking at one at the dealer... as we own 2 VW's as well as a
> Volvo) where 1/2 of the outside round lamp is a red indicator lamp, that
> in Europe it will have to be amber?.... Guess if I end up buying one, i'd
> buy some European lights for it (I think red's look ugly for one, and are
> not as effective, for two).... This swings my what new car to get
> descision more to the Volvo S40, which I can get for just a bit more then
> a new Jetta (Ford X-plan, thru Magna Int') - I like the S40 in general
> better - but I'm worried about the stigma as a luxury brand affecting my
> insurance premiums (since I'll be 22 or so if I get the car sometime in
> the next 18 months)... I like the Jetta interior better (tho the Volvo one
> is probably technically better: better seats, nicer radio, cleaner
> design).
> "athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:1113532948.444646@idlweb...
>> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
>>> combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American
>>> car
>>> style...

>>
>> Yuck!
>>
>>> Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
>>> signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or
>>> are we
>>> getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta
>>> wagon,
>>> Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer Audi's.

>>
>> They are north american specific. In the real world outside the
>> insulated
>> FMVSS lunacy, red rear indicators have been banned for many decades.
>>
>> Similarly, front parking lights in the rest of the world are white not
>> yellow, and the light patterns of headlights are far more effective.
>>
>> --
>> Athol
>> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
>> The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
>> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

>
>



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Old 04-15-2005, 19:01   #5 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Oh I know where they come from, I see them every day on the thousands of
American cars I see driving around.... Which is why I am disapointed to see
some Euro cars going this route.

Was wondering if Europe didn't actually have laws for signal colours, or if
they make different tail lamps for over here (I would have to wonder why
waste the money).
"Peter K L Milnes" <Peter.K.L.Milnes@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d3pk0s$d2c$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Out of interest Rob, the red turn signals come from the earlier American
> cars which had huge light displays at the rear. One side would flash for a
> turn and both sides would come on when braking. Thus all rear facing lamps
> were red.
>
> Cheers, Peter.
>
> "Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:gwU7e.6497$MZ2.927052@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> So you're telling me, that on the new Jetta (where this actually stemmed
>> from after looking at one at the dealer... as we own 2 VW's as well as a
>> Volvo) where 1/2 of the outside round lamp is a red indicator lamp, that
>> in Europe it will have to be amber?.... Guess if I end up buying one, i'd
>> buy some European lights for it (I think red's look ugly for one, and are
>> not as effective, for two).... This swings my what new car to get
>> descision more to the Volvo S40, which I can get for just a bit more then
>> a new Jetta (Ford X-plan, thru Magna Int') - I like the S40 in general
>> better - but I'm worried about the stigma as a luxury brand affecting my
>> insurance premiums (since I'll be 22 or so if I get the car sometime in
>> the next 18 months)... I like the Jetta interior better (tho the Volvo
>> one is probably technically better: better seats, nicer radio, cleaner
>> design).
>> "athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:1113532948.444646@idlweb...
>>> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
>>>> combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American
>>>> car
>>>> style...
>>>
>>> Yuck!
>>>
>>>> Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
>>>> signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or
>>>> are we
>>>> getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta
>>>> wagon,
>>>> Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer
>>>> Audi's.
>>>
>>> They are north american specific. In the real world outside the
>>> insulated
>>> FMVSS lunacy, red rear indicators have been banned for many decades.
>>>
>>> Similarly, front parking lights in the rest of the world are white not
>>> yellow, and the light patterns of headlights are far more effective.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Athol
>>> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
>>> The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
>>> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

>>
>>

>
>



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Old 04-15-2005, 19:01   #6 (permalink)
athol
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:

> Was wondering if Europe didn't actually have laws for signal colours, or if
> they make different tail lamps for over here (I would have to wonder why
> waste the money).


Marketing.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2005, 01:01   #7 (permalink)
Jan-Erik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, europeancars.

athol wrote:
> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Was wondering if Europe didn't actually have laws for signal colours, or if
>>they make different tail lamps for over here (I would have to wonder why
>>waste the money).

>
>
> Marketing.
>

We do have laws for signalcolours
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:01   #8 (permalink)
athol
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

Jan-Erik <jdr85@gs.bergen.hl.no> wrote:
> athol wrote:
>> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:


>>>Was wondering if Europe didn't actually have laws for signal colours, or if
>>>they make different tail lamps for over here (I would have to wonder why
>>>waste the money).


>> Marketing.


> We do have laws for signalcolours


Yes, but the decision by EU manufacturers to make US-market red indicators
when their rest-of-the-world amber ones are acceptable in the US market is
purely about marketing.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2005, 10:01   #9 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

"We made our vehicle less safe and less distinctively European?"

At least I know I could buy a Euro-spec part....
"athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:1113634127.513495@idlweb...
> Jan-Erik <jdr85@gs.bergen.hl.no> wrote:
>> athol wrote:
>>> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:

>
>>>>Was wondering if Europe didn't actually have laws for signal colours, or
>>>>if
>>>>they make different tail lamps for over here (I would have to wonder why
>>>>waste the money).

>
>>> Marketing.

>
>> We do have laws for signalcolours

>
> Yes, but the decision by EU manufacturers to make US-market red indicators
> when their rest-of-the-world amber ones are acceptable in the US market is
> purely about marketing.
>
> --
> Athol
> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.



  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2005, 13:01   #10 (permalink)
Marc Sebens
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tailight colours - regarding amber vs red turn signals, european cars.

The Volvo will actually cost less to insure than the Jetta




"Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:gwU7e.6497$MZ2.927052@news20.bellglobal.com...
> So you're telling me, that on the new Jetta (where this actually stemmed
> from after looking at one at the dealer... as we own 2 VW's as well as a
> Volvo) where 1/2 of the outside round lamp is a red indicator lamp, that
> in Europe it will have to be amber?.... Guess if I end up buying one, i'd
> buy some European lights for it (I think red's look ugly for one, and are
> not as effective, for two).... This swings my what new car to get
> descision more to the Volvo S40, which I can get for just a bit more then
> a new Jetta (Ford X-plan, thru Magna Int') - I like the S40 in general
> better - but I'm worried about the stigma as a luxury brand affecting my
> insurance premiums (since I'll be 22 or so if I get the car sometime in
> the next 18 months)... I like the Jetta interior better (tho the Volvo one
> is probably technically better: better seats, nicer radio, cleaner
> design).
> "athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:1113532948.444646@idlweb...
>> Rob Guenther <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> BUT NOW.... I am seeing red turn signals and almost American style
>>> combination running/stopping/turning signal clusters, almost American
>>> car
>>> style...

>>
>> Yuck!
>>
>>> Did Europe never have a law saying you HAVE to have amber turn
>>> signals - and the manufacturers are just now making red signals... or
>>> are we
>>> getting North American style lights here only... Look at the Jetta
>>> wagon,
>>> Porsche 911's I have seen with red lights, new Jetta, some newer Audi's.

>>
>> They are north american specific. In the real world outside the
>> insulated
>> FMVSS lunacy, red rear indicators have been banned for many decades.
>>
>> Similarly, front parking lights in the rest of the world are white not
>> yellow, and the light patterns of headlights are far more effective.
>>
>> --
>> Athol
>> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
>> The state of Australia's infrastructure is a national disgrace.
>> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

>
>



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