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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #1 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
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What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

Hello... Was just wondering, today we booked our 960 (1993 with 162K Kms) in
for A/C service, most likely needs a new evaporator, as pipes, seals and
other components have been leaking for years... My father commented "this
car is just going to turn into one big money pit now"... What is there that
is a big expense item on the 960 though? The only thing I can think of is
the tranny, but it seems solid, is cooled by its own radiator, we flush the
fluid regularly (its been done 2 or 3 times now)

We have done:
New rad, new front brake disks, 4th set of pads all around, 1 new caliper, 4
new shocks, complete exhaust system (stainless), new gear selector switch,
new radio, 3rd new set of tires, just finished its original set of snow
tires, and of course it's had its share of new sparkplugs, wires, oil, air,
and fuel filters, oil done 2 times a year or more (we drive on average of
~13000kms per year, so this is fine), the timing belt was done at 130K Kms
(replaced as per the schedule of every 45K Kms or less) and the waterpump
was done with it @130K.... I'm thinking the only things that will go are the
tie rods (luckily I don't drive it much... I killed my VW's tie rods in 50k
Kms though) and the wheel bearings.... Maybe the power drivers seat, but
that thing has made weird noises and had a trouble with "Alzheimer's" for
years now (doesn't QUITE remember where to go... gets most of the way there
though)


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #2 (permalink)
James Sweet
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Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series


"Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:adqpe.7721$_n2.650891@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hello... Was just wondering, today we booked our 960 (1993 with 162K Kms)

in
> for A/C service, most likely needs a new evaporator, as pipes, seals and
> other components have been leaking for years... My father commented "this
> car is just going to turn into one big money pit now"... What is there

that
> is a big expense item on the 960 though? The only thing I can think of is
> the tranny, but it seems solid, is cooled by its own radiator, we flush

the
> fluid regularly (its been done 2 or 3 times now)
>


Engine and transmission are about it really, A/C almost always needs some
work by that age, it's not too hard to repair it yourself though.


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #3 (permalink)
Rob Guenther
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Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

Thanks for the positive responce... The A/C has been leak-stopped, patched
up, and topped up for the past few years... They need to change out the
evaporator thi time... they wanted to last year, but it was too much money
at the time.
"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Aspe.13203$yS2.5532@trnddc07...
>
> "Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:adqpe.7721$_n2.650891@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> Hello... Was just wondering, today we booked our 960 (1993 with 162K Kms)

> in
>> for A/C service, most likely needs a new evaporator, as pipes, seals and
>> other components have been leaking for years... My father commented "this
>> car is just going to turn into one big money pit now"... What is there

> that
>> is a big expense item on the 960 though? The only thing I can think of is
>> the tranny, but it seems solid, is cooled by its own radiator, we flush

> the
>> fluid regularly (its been done 2 or 3 times now)
>>

>
> Engine and transmission are about it really, A/C almost always needs some
> work by that age, it's not too hard to repair it yourself though.
>
>



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #4 (permalink)
george farquharson
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Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

What's the scoop on fixing the AC yourself; I assumed that was a pro job.
I've got an 86 760 turbo that has a leak in the AC but I never assumed I
could fix it myself. Cheers....George


"Rob Guenther" <robertguenther@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:adqpe.7721$_n2.650891@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hello... Was just wondering, today we booked our 960 (1993 with 162K Kms)
> in for A/C service, most likely needs a new evaporator, as pipes, seals
> and other components have been leaking for years... My father commented
> "this car is just going to turn into one big money pit now"... What is
> there that is a big expense item on the 960 though? The only thing I can
> think of is the tranny, but it seems solid, is cooled by its own radiator,
> we flush the fluid regularly (its been done 2 or 3 times now)
>
> We have done:
> New rad, new front brake disks, 4th set of pads all around, 1 new caliper,
> 4 new shocks, complete exhaust system (stainless), new gear selector
> switch, new radio, 3rd new set of tires, just finished its original set of
> snow tires, and of course it's had its share of new sparkplugs, wires,
> oil, air, and fuel filters, oil done 2 times a year or more (we drive on
> average of ~13000kms per year, so this is fine), the timing belt was done
> at 130K Kms (replaced as per the schedule of every 45K Kms or less) and
> the waterpump was done with it @130K.... I'm thinking the only things that
> will go are the tie rods (luckily I don't drive it much... I killed my
> VW's tie rods in 50k Kms though) and the wheel bearings.... Maybe the
> power drivers seat, but that thing has made weird noises and had a trouble
> with "Alzheimer's" for years now (doesn't QUITE remember where to go...
> gets most of the way there though)
>



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #5 (permalink)
Michael Pardee
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Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

"george farquharson" <georgefn@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Rxtpe.1594869$8l.212552@pd7tw1no...
> What's the scoop on fixing the AC yourself; I assumed that was a pro job.
> I've got an 86 760 turbo that has a leak in the AC but I never assumed I
> could fix it myself. Cheers....George
>

In the '86 I wouldn't expect evaporator trouble. The first step would be to
add a dye to identify where the leak is. If the dye shows up at the
compressor shaft (hard to see behind the clutch) you are looking at an
expensive repair, and those compressors are pretty rare. If it is at a
junction of pipes it will be a seal, which is cheap enough.

BUT... unless the refrigerant has been converted to R134a, the R12 in there
is ungodly expensive (about $50/lb US the last I heard). You would have to
get it evacuated before doing any of the work and have it refilled
afterward - it requires a license to buy it now. It might just be cheaper to
have the pro do all the work on that old system.

The compressor seized on our '85 several years ago, and a replacement with
R134a conversion was about $1100 US at the dealer. I normally do my own, but
that job involved enough risks that I put on the credit card and didn't
worry about it.

Mike


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #6 (permalink)
James Sweet
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Posts: n/a
Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series


"george farquharson" <georgefn@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Rxtpe.1594869$8l.212552@pd7tw1no...
> What's the scoop on fixing the AC yourself; I assumed that was a pro job.
> I've got an 86 760 turbo that has a leak in the AC but I never assumed I
> could fix it myself. Cheers....George
>


Well first, do some homework, read up on how the system works and find the
R-134 conversion manual, I know it's online. Then if it was leaking quickly,
find out why, in my case the hose on the back of the compressor had rubbed
on the bracket and made a pinhole. Once you figure that out, order the R134
conversion kit which comes with a new reciever/dryer, orifice tube, O-rings
and some other bits. You'll also need the supplementary kit for most cars.
While you're at it, pick up a new pressostat since it's only about $10 at
any autoparts store.

You'll need a few special tools too, the main one being a vacuum pump. I
used a surplus rotary compressor designed for a window A/C unit which I got
for $5 from www.usamfg.net, you'll also need a 21uF run capacitor for the
unit if you go that route which is about 2 bucks from the same place. A
little ugly but surprisingly I found it pulls a better vacuum than the
"real" vacuum pump a friend of mine has! Also you'll need a charging hose, 3
cans of R-134a refrigerant, ester oil, refrigeration solvent, and some large
box end wrenches. All of that stuff can be bought at most autoparts stores.

It's a bit of work and requires some care but if you do it yourself it can
be done for under $200 depending on condition of existing major components.
Sure beats the $1k+ for a pro job. If you get stuck or have questions feel
free to contact me directly as I've done a few of these now. One thing worth
mentioning is that with the stock condenser you'll get slightly reduced
cooling capacity compared to R-12 but R-134a is a fraction the cost at
around $5/lb while R-12 is going for more than $100/lb.


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #7 (permalink)
User
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Posts: n/a
Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

In article <R1Gpe.15552$ld3.12391@trnddc04>, jamessweet@hotmail.com
says...
>
> "george farquharson" <georgefn@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:Rxtpe.1594869$8l.212552@pd7tw1no...
> > What's the scoop on fixing the AC yourself; I assumed that was a pro job.
> > I've got an 86 760 turbo that has a leak in the AC but I never assumed I
> > could fix it myself. Cheers....George
> >

>
> Well first, do some homework, read up on how the system works and find the
> R-134 conversion manual, I know it's online. Then if it was leaking quickly,
> find out why, in my case the hose on the back of the compressor had rubbed
> on the bracket and made a pinhole. Once you figure that out, order the R134
> conversion kit which comes with a new reciever/dryer, orifice tube, O-rings
> and some other bits. You'll also need the supplementary kit for most cars.
> While you're at it, pick up a new pressostat since it's only about $10 at
> any autoparts store.
>
> You'll need a few special tools too, the main one being a vacuum pump. I
> used a surplus rotary compressor designed for a window A/C unit which I got
> for $5 from www.usamfg.net, you'll also need a 21uF run capacitor for the
> unit if you go that route which is about 2 bucks from the same place. A
> little ugly but surprisingly I found it pulls a better vacuum than the
> "real" vacuum pump a friend of mine has! Also you'll need a charging hose, 3
> cans of R-134a refrigerant, ester oil, refrigeration solvent, and some large
> box end wrenches. All of that stuff can be bought at most autoparts stores.
>
> It's a bit of work and requires some care but if you do it yourself it can
> be done for under $200 depending on condition of existing major components.
> Sure beats the $1k+ for a pro job. If you get stuck or have questions feel
> free to contact me directly as I've done a few of these now. One thing worth
> mentioning is that with the stock condenser you'll get slightly reduced
> cooling capacity compared to R-12 but R-134a is a fraction the cost at
> around $5/lb while R-12 is going for more than $100/lb.
>
>

Just for giggles... r134a has doubled in retail price since last year
(wholesale low prices last year hovered around $50.00 US for 30#
cylinder, now the low price is about $375.00 for a 30# cylinder).
Rumored causes: a major production plant burned down, the chinese are
buying more cars and A/C is standard, most european cars ar now being
shipped with A/C as standard.

Bob

--
The goal when driving is to miss the maximum number of objects.
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #8 (permalink)
John Horner
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Posts: n/a
Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

Rob Guenther wrote:
> Hello... Was just wondering, today we booked our 960 (1993 with 162K Kms) in
> for A/C service, most likely needs a new evaporator, as pipes, seals and
> other components have been leaking for years... My father commented "this
> car is just going to turn into one big money pit now"... What is there that
> is a big expense item on the 960 though? The only thing I can think of is
> the tranny, but it seems solid, is cooled by its own radiator, we flush the
> fluid regularly (its been done 2 or 3 times now)


Rear main seals and other engine seals can start to leak and can be
costly to replace due to labor. All of the suspension parts are now
potential candidates. Also anything electrical. ABS controllers on
the 850s are a high failure rate item ... don't know if that is true of
the 960 or not. Emission control sensors, controls, etc. can also start
acting up.

Basically your vehicle is at a point where things get to be a bit of a
crap shoot as anything can go wrong at any time. At $100/hour and
higher shop rates there is some wisdom to what your father is saying.

Some vehicles remain relatively trouble free at that age, some have
stuff going wrong all the time. Luck, conditions, driving style ....
maybe even phase of the moon all matters :). Now might be the time to
start learning DIY auto repair .....

John
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:28   #9 (permalink)
Jeff Olsen
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Re: What are the big-ticket repairs on a 960/9xx series

in article Q7mdnbe-0I1yeTvfRVn-2w@sedona.net, Michael Pardee at
michaeltnull@cybertrails.com wrote on 6/8/05 5:30 AM:


> BUT... unless the refrigerant has been converted to R134a, the R12 in there
> is ungodly expensive (about $50/lb US the last I heard). You would have to
> get it evacuated before doing any of the work and have it refilled
> afterward - it requires a license to buy it now. It might just be cheaper to
> have the pro do all the work on that old system.


I had the A/C converted to R134a on my '92 240, and the total cost,
including the actual Volvo kit, was under $200. But my compressor is/was
working; that's a big-ticket item. Point is, I would not put $200 into an
R12 system; just convert it.

-jeff

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