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Old 01-02-2006, 15:01   #1 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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110TD Veg conversion

In article <ebRtf.47834$PD2.26760@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
puffernutter <peter@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> writes
>Peter
>
>1990 110 CSW (Reggie the Veggie)



Peter,

Now Christmas is out of the way, I'm looking at getting Marge running on
veggie. I was thinking about a 5 gal. or smaller Jerry can for priming
diesel, but hadn't got much further. Then I noticed your sig.

Is "Reggie" a TD and running on pure veg oil? if so how've you done the
conversion?

Any thoughts appreciated...

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 01-03-2006, 03:01   #2 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion

On or around Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:35:15 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
<no-one@nospam.demon.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>In article <ebRtf.47834$PD2.26760@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>puffernutter <peter@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> writes
>>Peter
>>
>>1990 110 CSW (Reggie the Veggie)

>
>
>Peter,
>
>Now Christmas is out of the way, I'm looking at getting Marge running on
>veggie. I was thinking about a 5 gal. or smaller Jerry can for priming
>diesel, but hadn't got much further. Then I noticed your sig.
>
>Is "Reggie" a TD and running on pure veg oil? if so how've you done the
>conversion?
>


I'd been thinking along these lines - there are people out there producing
"proper" veg diesel-substitute (it's used chip oil type stuff but processed
to convert it into something that runs in a normal diesel engine without
causing problems, allegedly.. However, the local lot I followed up weren't
too encouraging - delivery looks iffy, price is as high as dino-diesel.
About the only real advantage I could see (apart from the green credentials)
was in having the fuel on hand at home and not relying on the garage being
open.

now of course, you can do the "run on vegetable oil from the supermarket"
approach. but that's more hassle, and unless you play the game with HMC&E
you stand to lose quite a lot if you're caught.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10
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Old 01-03-2006, 13:01   #3 (permalink)
puffernutter
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> In article <ebRtf.47834$PD2.26760@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> puffernutter <peter@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> writes
>
>> Peter
>>
>> 1990 110 CSW (Reggie the Veggie)

>
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Now Christmas is out of the way, I'm looking at getting Marge running on
> veggie. I was thinking about a 5 gal. or smaller Jerry can for priming
> diesel, but hadn't got much further. Then I noticed your sig.
>
> Is "Reggie" a TD and running on pure veg oil? if so how've you done the
> conversion?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated...
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
>


Simon, firstly a Happy New Year

Reggie the Veggie!

Reggie is a 1990 2.5TD (19J engine)

So far Reggie is only a partial conversion (mainly through cost at the
moment) and also dovetailing the veggie conversion in with other projects.

At the moment I only have a heat exchanger in the fuel line. The heat
exchanger is simplicity itself, simply a piece of 15mm pipe soldered
inside a length of 22mm pipe. There is one inlet and one outlet
soldered at either end of the 22mm pipe for the fuel. The heat
exchanger is then fitted in the heater hot water circuit. The 15mm
copper fitted nicely in the existing hoses.

So at the moment Reggie is a "fair weather" conversion. As the
viscosity of oil is much more than diesel, I am now using pure diesel I
plan to go back to vegetable oil either when I perform the full
conversion (or when it gets warmer!)

Over Christmas I fitted a diesel heater (I can't spell Ebersp...!) this
needed a separate diesel supply. Through http://www.biotuning.co.uk/ I
purchased a custom made 17l aluminium tank (80) that sits behind my
middle second row seat. It is externally vented so there is no smell in
the cabin. At the moment that just feeds the diesel heater.

However "veggie conversion phase 2" is to fit an electric pre-heater and
a six port valve (what I would call the equivalent of a double pole
double throw switch with no centre off!) The electric pre-heater
(around 75) helps with the heating of the vegetable oil and reduces the
time on diesel. The Pollack six port valve (around 50 from bio-tuning)
allows me to start the engine on diesel and when the heater circuits
have the oil warm enough, allows me to switch over to veggie on the fly.
The electric valve is used to switch between veggie and diesel coming
in, with the other port allowing you to direct the fuel overflow to the
right tank (otherwise the veggie tank can start filling up with diesel
or vice-versa)!

Just before you stop, (a minute or so) you switch back to diesel and
purge the veggie out so you have a pure diesel start.

In the main I have bought my fuel from a local supplier
(http://www.bio-power.co.uk/) [duty paid] although there is no reason
why pure vegetable oil purchased from a supermarket wouldn't work just
as well, but I don't have personal experience of that ;-) However, if
you do that (use supermarket vegetable oil) you should contact customs
and excise and pay the duty !

I have not noticed and improvement (or worsening in performance) but as
the conversion was done shortly after I bought Reggie and just after the
boost diaphragm in the injector pump was replaced as was all 4
injectors. So I have no real yardstick to measure against (and indeed
cannot tell if the veggie conversion had the effect of the new injectors
or both!) However I can cruise comfortably at 70 on veggie, so I have
no complaints!

I think that's all. If you have any questions, just holler!

By the way, we were running on veggie at the MOT and the tester told my
wife that he wasn't even going to bother printing out the emissions
result as there were no emissions!

Cheers


Peter

1990 110 CSW Reggie the Veggie
1973 Hillman Imp (no engine)
1964 Rover P4 110 (engine in bits)
1959 Austin A40 Farina (got the engine running on Jan 1st but no brakes!)
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Old 01-03-2006, 14:01   #4 (permalink)
Steve
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

puffernutter wrote:

> However "veggie conversion phase 2" is to fit an electric pre-heater and
> a six port valve (what I would call the equivalent of a double pole
> double throw switch with no centre off!) The electric pre-heater
> (around 75) helps with the heating of the vegetable oil and reduces the
> time on diesel.


How about a heating coil in the veg tank as well ?


> By the way, we were running on veggie at the MOT and the tester told my
> wife that he wasn't even going to bother printing out the emissions
> result as there were no emissions!


Eh ? There has to be something

Steve

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Old 01-03-2006, 15:01   #5 (permalink)
Steve
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)



....and what happens to the fuel pump ? Is that replaced with a gear pump
in the oil tank ?
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Old 01-03-2006, 16:01   #6 (permalink)
puffernutter
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

Steve wrote:
> puffernutter wrote:
>

<snip>
>
>
>> By the way, we were running on veggie at the MOT and the tester told
>> my wife that he wasn't even going to bother printing out the emissions
>> result as there were no emissions!

>
>
> Eh ? There has to be something
>
> Steve
>

Not according to the printout!
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Old 01-04-2006, 03:01   #7 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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Posts: n/a
Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

In article <rmBuf.83074$vl2.58511@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
puffernutter <peter@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> writes
>Simon, firstly a Happy New Year


[loads of good stuff snipped]

Peter,

Many thanks for the detail - very helpful indeed.

Constructing a heater jacket per your design sounds
very easy (Thanks to Father Christmas and a VAT-free
day at Machine Mart, my new pillar drill should arrive
on Friday :-). I'm thinking of drilling through the
15mm end-stops on a pair of 15-22 unequal Tees so
that the 15mm slides straight through. Is that what
you did, or did you just cut a bit of 15mm to fit inside?
I was also wondering about using glow-plugs
in the water jacket to provide 'instant' electrical
heating, but this needs further thought...

Regarding completing the process, my intent is to have a
5 gal Jerry can for diesel, with a modified cap to draw
off the fuel and vent to the outside. The only drawbacks
I can see to this are the possibility of diesel dribbles
when changing cans over, and possible fuss with
construction/use regs. I like the idea of a solenoid
valve for switchover too.

The engine itself probably needs a bit of work first too.
She's done 170,000 (I think there's been one rebuild), and
the cylinders need re-honing at least as there's a fair bit
of blow-by ("they all do that, etc."). I'll use the
opportunity to do big-end/little-end bearings too, and
de-coke the head/lap the valves.

Assuming all that goes well...


Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 01-04-2006, 04:01   #8 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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Posts: n/a
Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

In article <43bbb034$0$904$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, Steve Taylor
<steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> The only drawbacks
>> I can see to this are the possibility of diesel dribbles
>> when changing cans over, and possible fuss with
>> construction/use regs. I like the idea of a solenoid
>> valve for switchover too.
>>

>Also sounds like its critical to stop the diesel pump ever running dry,
>ie no bubbles from the crossover.


Good point - an air separator might be necessary, but wouldn't be that
awkward to do.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 01-04-2006, 05:01   #9 (permalink)
Steve
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Posts: n/a
Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:

>> Also sounds like its critical to stop the diesel pump ever running
>> dry, ie no bubbles from the crossover.

>
> Good point - an air separator might be necessary, but wouldn't be that
> awkward to do.
>

Might be, given the viscosity of the veg oil.

Steve
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Old 01-04-2006, 06:01   #10 (permalink)
Richard
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Re: 110TD Veg conversion (a bit long!)

Over here in Holland a pilot project started under the aegis of the
Ministry (transport or environment, not sure, possibly both) to promote
biofuels. A&G Land Rover Unlimited converts diesel engines to running
on colza oil. They do two types of conversion: fully automatic switch
between colza and diesel, on the fly as you say, a computer determines
when and how much colza oil is added/used (EUR 3900 ie. GBP 2700); and
maual switch (EUR 2500 ie. GBP 1700). So far and as far as I know, they
converted a couple of Land Rovers, a Disco I 200TDi for example.
Customs provides converts with the necessary (tax) paperwork. You have
to install a tank (1000 l ie. 220 gallon) in your backyard (which the
tank lorry can reach of course). A&G tells me they shortened the
service interval, to be on the safe side, and have used oil samples
examined by Mobil. Fuel ecomomy is up with colza oil, emissions are
down, except for NOx. I'm seriously considering having my Disco 300TDi
converted, but costs are a bit of a bother. Colza oil is about two
thirds diesel here, costwise. Two guys are taking their converted Disco
200TDi to China. On Colza oil. All the way. I could give you the urls,
but it's all in Dutch...

on a colza Disco to China: http://www.owneyesexperience.nl/
emissions (numbers): http://www.koolzaadolie.net/content/view/3/11/
converters: http://www.landrover-unlimited.com/
photo's of the conversion (Disco II TD5 engine bay and boot):
http://www.koolzaadolie.net/componen...mid,9/catid,4/

Richard

puffernutter wrote:
> So far Reggie is only a partial conversion (mainly through cost at the
> moment) and also dovetailing the veggie conversion in with other projects.


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