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Old 06-19-2005, 06:01   #1 (permalink)
Pacman
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3.9 overheating

I've just become the owner of a tidy RR Vogue SE 3.9; purchased it
yesterday, all the electrics work, brand new tailgate, clean interior and
exterior etc etc. It's done 114,000 mles, and upto 81,000 (3 years ago) it
was serviced religously by the same LR dealer, and all the receipts and
stamps are present. It was MOT'd last month, with no issues, so I thought
it was a bargain.

However there is a slight problem with the engine. I drove it back home 30
miles away, and it was a dream to drive. However the temp gauge was running
on the high side, bordering on the white and the red, with some very slight
swings towards the white a bit more. When I got home, I let it cool and
checked the coolant levels. It was a little low, so I topped it up, and
went out again. However it was getting hot again, so I got back home to
investigate. The rad pipes were red hot to touch, and I could hear a
hissing sound from the expansion tank. After a few minutes of engine off I
slowly opened the expansion tank, to be greeted by a waterfall of boiling
hot water pouring out the tank. After about 20 mins I filled the tank back
up, and without the cap on, started the engine. My mate was round (an
aircraft mechanic) and he watched the tank as the engine was running for
signs of bubbles (Head gasket?), but there were none. Everything was OK for
about 5 minutes, when suddenly a mass of air/gas worked its way through the
pipes and then more hot water came gushing out the tank.

I changed the thermostat this morning, flushed the radiator (in case of
blockage), I couldnt flush the heads because I couldnt get the drain nuts
off, problem still there. Any ideas anyone?? As mentioned, don't think its
head gasket as there are no bubbles in the expansion tank, and nothing
coming out the sides of the heads, however I'd welcome your opinions.

I think I've been stung, although in hindsight I paid below the book price
for it so Caveat Emptor.....I actually phoned the seller (a trader) back; he
maintained that in the few weeks he's had it he's been using it and claims
that it did not have this problem, sort of confirmed by the fact that it was
warm when I went to buy it, so if he did know, surely he'd have sold it me
cold?? Anyway after much discussion he's agreed to send me some money back,
although I'm not holding my breath..........


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Old 06-19-2005, 08:02   #2 (permalink)
Tim Hobbs
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Re: 3.9 overheating

> My mate was round (an
>aircraft mechanic) and he watched the tank as the engine was running for
>signs of bubbles (Head gasket?), but there were none. Everything was OK for
>about 5 minutes, when suddenly a mass of air/gas worked its way through the
>pipes and then more hot water came gushing out the tank.


I'm confused about hot water gushing out the tank - this happens when
you take the cap off a hot engine because only the pressure stops it
boiling. Once you take the pressure away it boils violently out of
the top. If it is suddenly doing this without the cap ever being on
then ISTM it has to be air pressure from the compression cycle.

If air is suddenly rushing through would that perhaps indicate that
the head gasket is only blowing once a certain temp has been reached?

Might be worth a compression test - hot and cold?

HTH




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:02   #3 (permalink)
MVP
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Re: 3.9 overheating

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:42:20 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:

>> My mate was round (an
>>aircraft mechanic) and he watched the tank as the engine was running for
>>signs of bubbles (Head gasket?), but there were none. Everything was OK for
>>about 5 minutes, when suddenly a mass of air/gas worked its way through the
>>pipes and then more hot water came gushing out the tank.

>
>I'm confused about hot water gushing out the tank - this happens when
>you take the cap off a hot engine because only the pressure stops it
>boiling. Once you take the pressure away it boils violently out of
>the top. If it is suddenly doing this without the cap ever being on
>then ISTM it has to be air pressure from the compression cycle.
>
>If air is suddenly rushing through would that perhaps indicate that
>the head gasket is only blowing once a certain temp has been reached?
>
>Might be worth a compression test - hot and cold?
>
>HTH


stab in the dark here, but could it have gushed in such a manner
having been waiting for the thermostat to open thus allowing pressure
from a head gasket failure/failing to over-pressurise the rest of the
system and thus gush from the open expansion tank?

overly hot pipes would make me think about the radiator not doing it's
job (much damage/blockage) or the water pump failing to move the water
through the radiator?

Just throwing ideas in, I know bugger-all about V8's.


Regards.
Mark.
--
_________________________________________
3.9 V8i LPG auto Disco - coming soon
1990 SAAB 9000 fastasyoulike
www.4x4info.info
www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
charity calendar project -
http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
_________________________________________



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Old 06-19-2005, 10:02   #4 (permalink)
Badger
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Posts: n/a
Re: 3.9 overheating


"Pacman" <p_a_cherry@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42b56407$0$362$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> I've just become the owner of a tidy RR Vogue SE 3.9; purchased it
> yesterday, all the electrics work, brand new tailgate, clean interior and
> exterior etc etc. It's done 114,000 mles, and upto 81,000 (3 years ago)
> it was serviced religously by the same LR dealer, and all the receipts and
> stamps are present. It was MOT'd last month, with no issues, so I thought
> it was a bargain.
>
> However there is a slight problem with the engine. I drove it back home 30
> miles away, and it was a dream to drive. However the temp gauge was
> running on the high side, bordering on the white and the red, with some
> very slight swings towards the white a bit more. When I got home, I let it
> cool and checked the coolant levels. It was a little low, so I topped it
> up, and went out again. However it was getting hot again, so I got back
> home to investigate. The rad pipes were red hot to touch, and I could
> hear a hissing sound from the expansion tank. After a few minutes of
> engine off I slowly opened the expansion tank, to be greeted by a
> waterfall of boiling hot water pouring out the tank. After about 20 mins
> I filled the tank back up, and without the cap on, started the engine. My
> mate was round (an aircraft mechanic) and he watched the tank as the
> engine was running for signs of bubbles (Head gasket?), but there were
> none. Everything was OK for about 5 minutes, when suddenly a mass of
> air/gas worked its way through the pipes and then more hot water came
> gushing out the tank.
>
> I changed the thermostat this morning, flushed the radiator (in case of
> blockage), I couldnt flush the heads because I couldnt get the drain nuts
> off, problem still there. Any ideas anyone?? As mentioned, don't think
> its head gasket as there are no bubbles in the expansion tank, and nothing
> coming out the sides of the heads, however I'd welcome your opinions.
>
> I think I've been stung, although in hindsight I paid below the book price
> for it so Caveat Emptor.....I actually phoned the seller (a trader) back;
> he maintained that in the few weeks he's had it he's been using it and
> claims that it did not have this problem, sort of confirmed by the fact
> that it was warm when I went to buy it, so if he did know, surely he'd
> have sold it me cold?? Anyway after much discussion he's agreed to send
> me some money back, although I'm not holding my breath..........


Sounds like the dreaded liner problem, I'm afraid, but has to be worth
replacing the thermostat first. Fit an 82 degree one, not the std 88.
Badger.


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Old 06-19-2005, 10:02   #5 (permalink)
Richard
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Re: 3.9 overheating

did it only boil when you took the cap off? if so, what Tim says is correct.
Are you losing water at all, I dont mean a leak but are you having to top it
up? I thought my V8 90 was over heating and it turned out to be the temp
transmitter.
Richard


"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:a2vab190jnuv2bpkso0an8d6m0vejfscq6@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:42:20 +0100, Tim Hobbs
> <tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:
>
>>> My mate was round (an
>>>aircraft mechanic) and he watched the tank as the engine was running for
>>>signs of bubbles (Head gasket?), but there were none. Everything was OK
>>>for
>>>about 5 minutes, when suddenly a mass of air/gas worked its way through
>>>the
>>>pipes and then more hot water came gushing out the tank.

>>
>>I'm confused about hot water gushing out the tank - this happens when
>>you take the cap off a hot engine because only the pressure stops it
>>boiling. Once you take the pressure away it boils violently out of
>>the top. If it is suddenly doing this without the cap ever being on
>>then ISTM it has to be air pressure from the compression cycle.
>>
>>If air is suddenly rushing through would that perhaps indicate that
>>the head gasket is only blowing once a certain temp has been reached?
>>
>>Might be worth a compression test - hot and cold?
>>
>>HTH

>
> stab in the dark here, but could it have gushed in such a manner
> having been waiting for the thermostat to open thus allowing pressure
> from a head gasket failure/failing to over-pressurise the rest of the
> system and thus gush from the open expansion tank?
>
> overly hot pipes would make me think about the radiator not doing it's
> job (much damage/blockage) or the water pump failing to move the water
> through the radiator?
>
> Just throwing ideas in, I know bugger-all about V8's.
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.
> --
> _________________________________________
> 3.9 V8i LPG auto Disco - coming soon
> 1990 SAAB 9000 fastasyoulike
> www.4x4info.info
> www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
> www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
> charity calendar project -
> http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
> ................................................................
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>



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Old 06-19-2005, 10:02   #6 (permalink)
Pacman
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Posts: n/a
Re: 3.9 overheating


>
> I'm confused about hot water gushing out the tank - this happens when
> you take the cap off a hot engine because only the pressure stops it
> boiling. Once you take the pressure away it boils violently out of
> the top. If it is suddenly doing this without the cap ever being on
> then ISTM it has to be air pressure from the compression cycle.
>

It is doing it without the cap on.

> If air is suddenly rushing through would that perhaps indicate that
> the head gasket is only blowing once a certain temp has been reached?
>
> Might be worth a compression test - hot and cold?


If it is the head gasket, what sort of results could I expect? Would I have
to change the gasket on both heads, assuming that the results indicated
which head was at fault?

Bit of a novice on V8s..sorry!

Paul



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Old 06-19-2005, 10:02   #7 (permalink)
Pacman
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Posts: n/a
Re: 3.9 overheating


> stab in the dark here, but could it have gushed in such a manner
> having been waiting for the thermostat to open thus allowing pressure
> from a head gasket failure/failing to over-pressurise the rest of the
> system and thus gush from the open expansion tank?


Those are the symptoms....the water just sits there, then all of a sudden,
it appears as if something has just opened to let a load of water through.
>
> overly hot pipes would make me think about the radiator not doing it's
> job (much damage/blockage) or the water pump failing to move the water
> through the radiator?


I flushed the radiator, but I didnt take it out and do a reverse flush...
>
> Just throwing ideas in, I know bugger-all about V8's.


You probably know more than me!!!!!!

Paul


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Old 06-19-2005, 10:02   #8 (permalink)
Pacman
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Posts: n/a
Re: 3.9 overheating


"Richard" <NO.SPAM@AT.NOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rFgte.1381$y57.1171@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> did it only boil when you took the cap off? if so, what Tim says is
> correct. Are you losing water at all, I dont mean a leak but are you
> having to top it up? I thought my V8 90 was over heating and it turned out
> to be the temp transmitter.
> Richard
>
>

When I stop the engine, there is a hissing coming from the expansion tank
cap...even though its on tight....I've never owned a V8 before, but even
with my limited knowledge it doesnt sound normal....

Paul


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Old 06-19-2005, 12:01   #9 (permalink)
MVP
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Posts: n/a
Re: 3.9 overheating

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:32:49 +0100, "Pacman" <p_a_cherry@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>> stab in the dark here, but could it have gushed in such a manner
>> having been waiting for the thermostat to open thus allowing pressure
>> from a head gasket failure/failing to over-pressurise the rest of the
>> system and thus gush from the open expansion tank?

>
>Those are the symptoms....the water just sits there, then all of a sudden,
>it appears as if something has just opened to let a load of water through.
>>
>> overly hot pipes would make me think about the radiator not doing it's
>> job (much damage/blockage) or the water pump failing to move the water
>> through the radiator?

>
>I flushed the radiator, but I didnt take it out and do a reverse flush...
>>
>> Just throwing ideas in, I know bugger-all about V8's.

>
>You probably know more than me!!!!!!
>
>Paul


If the rad has been flushed then that discounts that possibility, also
water pump not pumping the water around mebbe? I don't know if the
water pumps on V8's are a similar affair to the diesels I'm more
familiar with.

Can you whip the thermostat out and run it without for test?
my thoughts being that if the cooling system is being overpressurised
then the opening thermostat could be allowing this pressure through to
the expansion tank, by removing the thermostat temporarily this
pressure will be evident much sooner and hopefully less dramatically.

Maybe an academic excercise as a head gasket blowing into the water
jacket sounds likely to me, though I'm not sure how the symptoms
compare to those of the slippy-liners, I spose a new block would be
the route if that were the case.

I'm paying close attention here as I hope to soon be buying a 3.9
disco.


Regards.
Mark.
--
_________________________________________
3.9 V8i LPG auto Disco - coming soon
1990 SAAB 9000 fastasyoulike
www.4x4info.info
www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
charity calendar project -
http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
_________________________________________



.................................................................
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Old 06-19-2005, 12:01   #10 (permalink)
V890
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Re: 3.9 overheating


i got the same thing with my V8 landy today, but i think the reason for
me was a bit more simple! a dirrty radioator, and a VERY dirty engine.
!


--
V890
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View this thread: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/showthread.php?t=23478

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