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Old 11-19-2005, 11:01   #1 (permalink)
PacMan
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Battery (size) question

Hi all, and sorry for jumping in with a question to begin with.

I have a 1997 Defender 90 tdi, now with 80,000 miles, which wouldn't
start this morning. Diagnosis: need a new battery, since I know this
one's at least 5 years old.

Halfreaud's didn't have the recommended one in stock, and when I take
the old one out to connect to my bike's Optimate overnight (tell you
if it works tomorrow), it looks like the only constraint on battery
model is: will it fit under that front seat compartment?

Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?
--
PacMan
"When a man's best friend is his dog,
that dog has a problem" - Edward Abbey
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:01   #2 (permalink)
Paul S. Brown
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Re: Battery (size) question

PacMan wrote:

> Hi all, and sorry for jumping in with a question to begin with.
>
> I have a 1997 Defender 90 tdi, now with 80,000 miles, which wouldn't
> start this morning. Diagnosis: need a new battery, since I know this
> one's at least 5 years old.
>
> Halfreaud's didn't have the recommended one in stock, and when I take
> the old one out to connect to my bike's Optimate overnight (tell you
> if it works tomorrow), it looks like the only constraint on battery
> model is: will it fit under that front seat compartment?
>
> Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
> measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?


Let's get the religious bit out of the way first :@)

Get a couple of Optima Red Top and gang them in parallel!

P.
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Old 11-19-2005, 13:01   #3 (permalink)
m0bcg
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Posts: n/a
Re: Battery (size) question

you need a 590 battery if the positive connector is on the left as you
look at front of battery , with terminals facing you at the front of
battery .
..
or you need a 588 if the positive is on the right as you look at front
of battery .

these are 90ah batteries , ie the tractor type battery with handles

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Old 11-19-2005, 13:01   #4 (permalink)
Huw
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Re: Battery (size) question


"PacMan" <pacman_225@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:4fqun1189chmr5h68qftfs2jfq1604q5dh@4ax.com...
> Hi all, and sorry for jumping in with a question to begin with.
>
> I have a 1997 Defender 90 tdi, now with 80,000 miles, which wouldn't
> start this morning. Diagnosis: need a new battery, since I know this
> one's at least 5 years old.
>
> Halfreaud's didn't have the recommended one in stock, and when I take
> the old one out to connect to my bike's Optimate overnight (tell you
> if it works tomorrow), it looks like the only constraint on battery
> model is: will it fit under that front seat compartment?
>
> Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
> measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?



I would use the commonly available, powerful and relatively cheap type 643.
These are bought by factors by the pallet load so they are excellent value
for money and were standard fitment in hard[er] to start indirect injection
Land Rover's as well as many old tractors fitted with 4litre Perkins and
such.

I do believe that LR has despecced their batteries since the arrival of the
TDi and now probably recommend the 089/4 which has about 590CCA and 72Ah
compared with the [probably] cheaper and superior 643 which has 700cca and
95Ah.
Rest assured that the 643 fits easily into my LR under the passenger seat
and was the size originally supplied on all series and 90's and 110's.

Huw


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Old 11-20-2005, 05:01   #5 (permalink)
PacMan
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Posts: n/a
Re: Battery (size) question

It was round about Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:04:50 +0000,, when the famed
Mother of the dreaded Nope - none at all, you should see my desk....
was struck by a sudden insight:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:11:52 +0000, PacMan <pacman_225@fsmail.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
>>measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?

>
>Basically, yes. You're looking at getting something cheap - if you
>have any sense (speaking as someone who spends shedloads on Optimas
>and other Gel batteries) as it's for running the car only - yes?
>(Not lots of other stuff like fridge etc., which will need the deep
>cycle properties of Gel and Optima type batteries)


That's right, it's just to start and run. It tows a horse trailer
roughly twice per week, but that's only another 20W regularly (2 rear
lights, 2 front/side).
>
>If it'll fit, check the rating for CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) against
>the one you're taking to the recycle centre. Give or take 5 to 10
>each way isn't going to make a great deal of difference. For a D90,
>get a standard Discovery 200/300Tdi battery.


TYVM :-)
--
PacMan
"Laugh, and the world laughs with you,
snore and you sleep alone"
- Anthony Burgess
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Old 11-20-2005, 05:01   #6 (permalink)
PacMan
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Re: Battery (size) question

It was round about Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:41:27 -0000,, when the famed
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> of the dreaded was struck by a
sudden insight:

[..]
>I do believe that LR has despecced their batteries since the arrival of the
>TDi and now probably recommend the 089/4 which has about 590CCA and 72Ah
>compared with the [probably] cheaper and superior 643 which has 700cca and
>95Ah.


Hmm. I'll check what's on offer tomorrow.

>Rest assured that the 643 fits easily into my LR under the passenger seat
>and was the size originally supplied on all series and 90's and 110's.


Thanks very much: appreciated.
--
PacMan
"I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing
look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that
basically dogs think humans are nuts."
- John Steinbeck
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Old 11-20-2005, 05:01   #7 (permalink)
PacMan
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Re: Battery (size) question

It was round about 19 Nov 2005 12:27:25 -0800,, when the famed m0bcg
of the dreaded http://groups.google.com was struck by a sudden
insight:

>you need a 590 battery if the positive connector is on the left as you
>look at front of battery , with terminals facing you at the front of
>battery .


Yep, positive on the left as described.

>.
> or you need a 588 if the positive is on the right as you look at front
>of battery .
>
>these are 90ah batteries , ie the tractor type battery with handles


This old one doesn't have handles, but looking at it, I'm not
convinced it was an original fitment.
--
PacMan
"When a man's best friend is his dog,
that dog has a problem" - Edward Abbey
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Old 11-20-2005, 05:01   #8 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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Posts: n/a
Re: Battery (size) question

In article <3u9gvqF1048k0U1@individual.net>, Huw
<hedydd@[nospam].invalid> writes
>
>"PacMan" <pacman_225@fsmail.net> wrote in message
>news:4fqun1189chmr5h68qftfs2jfq1604q5dh@4ax.com...
>> Hi all, and sorry for jumping in with a question to begin with.
>>
>> I have a 1997 Defender 90 tdi, now with 80,000 miles, which wouldn't
>> start this morning. Diagnosis: need a new battery, since I know this
>> one's at least 5 years old.
>>
>> Halfreaud's didn't have the recommended one in stock, and when I take
>> the old one out to connect to my bike's Optimate overnight (tell you
>> if it works tomorrow), it looks like the only constraint on battery
>> model is: will it fit under that front seat compartment?
>>
>> Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
>> measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?

>
>
>I would use the commonly available, powerful and relatively cheap type 643.
>These are bought by factors by the pallet load so they are excellent value
>for money and were standard fitment in hard[er] to start indirect injection
>Land Rover's as well as many old tractors fitted with 4litre Perkins and
>such.
>
>I do believe that LR has despecced their batteries since the arrival of the
>TDi and now probably recommend the 089/4 which has about 590CCA and 72Ah
>compared with the [probably] cheaper and superior 643 which has 700cca and
>95Ah.
>Rest assured that the 643 fits easily into my LR under the passenger seat
>and was the size originally supplied on all series and 90's and 110's.


Seconded, with two other comments:

It's worth keeping the battery warm-ish - I use laminate floor underlay
(the sort that comes on a roll) under mine, and today am putting
bubble-wrap round it and on top (first serious cold night was last
night). Don't laugh: if the vehicle is likely to get really cold, you
could consider a hot water bottle put next to the battery overnight (not
boiling, obviously), just to keep the temp decent for the morning.

I've a retired electrical engineer friend who's also a Landy enthusiast,
who reckons that heating the glow plugs twice on cold mornings then
counting to five before turning the engine over works well - the high
glowplug current warms the battery up before it has to deliver the
really high cranking current. It certainly seems to help.

Your Optimate won't rejuvenate it, but it's a good idea nonetheless on a
good battery. I keep a small charger (nominally 8-amp, but really nearer
2 as the diodes are packing up) handy, with some long leads wired to it.
They'll fit under the garage door nicely, so that I can keep it charging
overnight (vehicle won't fit in). This does two things: keeps the
battery chemically in fettle by keeping it well topped-up, and the
charging action adds a tiny amount of heat (see above).

One final thing - electrolyte loss will be worse in cold weather as the
air can get much drier (when warmed). It's worth checking the levels at
least once during the winter in case. If one or two cells are noticeably
lower than the rest, the battery's probably on the way out - a
hygrometer will tell you most accurately. If they're all low, you should
charge it gently after you top up with de-ionized water.

HTH.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 11-20-2005, 09:01   #9 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Posts: n/a
Re: Battery (size) question

On or around Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:04:50 +0000, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:11:52 +0000, PacMan <pacman_225@fsmail.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
>>measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?

>
>Basically, yes. You're looking at getting something cheap - if you
>have any sense (speaking as someone who spends shedloads on Optimas
>and other Gel batteries) as it's for running the car only - yes?
>(Not lots of other stuff like fridge etc., which will need the deep
>cycle properties of Gel and Optima type batteries)
>
>If it'll fit, check the rating for CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) against
>the one you're taking to the recycle centre. Give or take 5 to 10
>each way isn't going to make a great deal of difference. For a D90,
>get a standard Discovery 200/300Tdi battery.


I'd get a 643 or 644 "small commercial" battery - agricultural places are
good, as they sell 'em for tractors.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
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Old 11-20-2005, 09:01   #10 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Battery (size) question

On or around Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:41:27 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"PacMan" <pacman_225@fsmail.net> wrote in message
>news:4fqun1189chmr5h68qftfs2jfq1604q5dh@4ax.com...
>> Hi all, and sorry for jumping in with a question to begin with.
>>
>> I have a 1997 Defender 90 tdi, now with 80,000 miles, which wouldn't
>> start this morning. Diagnosis: need a new battery, since I know this
>> one's at least 5 years old.
>>
>> Halfreaud's didn't have the recommended one in stock, and when I take
>> the old one out to connect to my bike's Optimate overnight (tell you
>> if it works tomorrow), it looks like the only constraint on battery
>> model is: will it fit under that front seat compartment?
>>
>> Any recommendations, advice, or should I just go out armed with a tape
>> measure, and buy the biggest ampere hourage(?) battery I can find?

>
>
>I would use the commonly available, powerful and relatively cheap type 643.
>These are bought by factors by the pallet load so they are excellent value
>for money and were standard fitment in hard[er] to start indirect injection
>Land Rover's as well as many old tractors fitted with 4litre Perkins and
>such.
>
>I do believe that LR has despecced their batteries since the arrival of the
>TDi and now probably recommend the 089/4 which has about 590CCA and 72Ah
>compared with the [probably] cheaper and superior 643 which has 700cca and
>95Ah.
>Rest assured that the 643 fits easily into my LR under the passenger seat
>and was the size originally supplied on all series and 90's and 110's.


and it'll fit in a 300 TDi disco with minimal attention to the battery
clamp.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
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