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Old 08-16-2005, 11:02   #1 (permalink)
Tom Gilmour
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Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

Hi

Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's, 110's,
Disco's, etc.

Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the shoes,
the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from returning
properly needing much adjustment.

Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum with a
simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or cable.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Tom
V8 90


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Old 08-16-2005, 13:01   #2 (permalink)
Badger
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Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?


"Tom Gilmour" <tom@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e8KdnQCxEvIEu5_eRVnyjQ@pipex.net...
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's,
> 110's, Disco's, etc.
>
> Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the shoes,
> the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from returning
> properly needing much adjustment.
>
> Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum with
> a simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or
> cable.
>
> Any ideas?


Shouldn't think it'd be too difficult to fit a disc in place of the drum and
say the rear caliper from a Mk3 granada on a bespoke bracket. Might even be
able to adapt the landy cable to fit the granny caliper. my only thought
against this idea is the possibility of drag playing havoc with propshaft
u/j's, my 110 went through a spate of edible rear propshaft u/j's, finally
cured by slackening off the handbrake drum adjuster 1 flat. There was only
the slightest of drag as well!
Badger.


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Old 08-16-2005, 14:01   #3 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

On or around Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:48:10 +0100, "Tom Gilmour" <tom@nospam.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>Hi
>
>Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's, 110's,
>Disco's, etc.
>
>Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the shoes,
>the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from returning
>properly needing much adjustment.
>
>Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum with a
>simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or cable.


and you reckon that *wouldn't* get crudded up and stop working?

In theory, you could remove the drum and substitute a disc - all you need is
a suitable disc to bolt onto the hub which the drum normally sits on - there
are various calipers with cable operation, used as handbrakes on cars -
citroen BX have 'em on the front wheels - it's a hydraulic caliper but also
has a mechincal operation via a cable.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
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Old 08-16-2005, 15:01   #4 (permalink)
Larry
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Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

Wheel chocks :)

Na seriosly my handbrake was not in the best of condition until recently so
reverse gear was as good as any solution


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Tom Gilmour" <tom@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e8KdnQCxEvIEu5_eRVnyjQ@pipex.net...
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's,

110's,
> Disco's, etc.
>
> Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the shoes,
> the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from returning
> properly needing much adjustment.
>
> Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum with

a
> simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or cable.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers
> Tom
> V8 90
>
>



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Old 08-16-2005, 15:01   #5 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

Badger wrote:

>
> "Tom Gilmour" <tom@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:e8KdnQCxEvIEu5_eRVnyjQ@pipex.net...
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's,
>> 110's, Disco's, etc.
>>
>> Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the
>> shoes, the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from
>> returning properly needing much adjustment.
>>
>> Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum
>> with a simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or
>> cable.
>>
>> Any ideas?

>
> Shouldn't think it'd be too difficult to fit a disc in place of the drum
> and say the rear caliper from a Mk3 granada on a bespoke bracket. Might
> even be able to adapt the landy cable to fit the granny caliper. my only
> thought against this idea is the possibility of drag playing havoc with
> propshaft u/j's, my 110 went through a spate of edible rear propshaft
> u/j's, finally cured by slackening off the handbrake drum adjuster 1 flat.
> There was only the slightest of drag as well!
> Badger.


It would seem to me that a disc would be far more likely to be damaged,
judging by the stone chips all over the lower half of the backing plate on
my hand brake. A disc with the same braking area of the drum will be
substantially larger in diameter and hence protrude lower and collect even
more flying stones.
JD
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:01   #6 (permalink)
Marc Draper
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Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

In message <e8KdnQCxEvIEu5_eRVnyjQ@pipex.net>, Tom Gilmour
<tom@nospam.com> writes
>Hi
>
>Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's, 110's,
>Disco's, etc.
>
>Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the shoes,
>the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from returning
>properly needing much adjustment.
>
>Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum with a
>simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage or cable.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Cheers
>Tom
>V8 90
>
>



Believe it or not The drum is the better solution !

Disc brake handbrakes give there own share of problems on ordinary cars
after a while, and that is without the conditions that a landrover has
to endure.

--
Marc
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:01   #7 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

In article <TpOWbHBySvADFwGW@mdeng.demon.co.uk>, Marc Draper
<marc@mdeng.demon.co.uk> writes
>Believe it or not The drum is the better solution !
>
>Disc brake handbrakes give there own share of problems on ordinary cars
>after a while, and that is without the conditions that a landrover has
>to endure.


Quite! Had them on an 89 VW Passat we kept for ages. Nice car in many
respects but let down badly by some really poor quality
materials/design, including the handbrake. Unless you do something very
clever by way of a guard, it would be really vulnerable in that
location. Ordinary disks are pretty well protected by the wheels, and
don't rotate as fast either.

Don't go there!


Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:01   #8 (permalink)
Badger
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?


"JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message
news:43025533@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Badger wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tom Gilmour" <tom@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:e8KdnQCxEvIEu5_eRVnyjQ@pipex.net...
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a better solution to the handbrake drum on 90's,
>>> 110's, Disco's, etc.
>>>
>>> Standard setup is heavy, bulky, fills with mud which wears down the
>>> shoes, the small rollers inside gum up and prevent the shoes from
>>> returning properly needing much adjustment.
>>>
>>> Am looking for something like a small disc brake in place of the drum
>>> with a simple mechanical (not hydraulic) caliper - operated by linkage
>>> or
>>> cable.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?

>>
>> Shouldn't think it'd be too difficult to fit a disc in place of the drum
>> and say the rear caliper from a Mk3 granada on a bespoke bracket. Might
>> even be able to adapt the landy cable to fit the granny caliper. my only
>> thought against this idea is the possibility of drag playing havoc with
>> propshaft u/j's, my 110 went through a spate of edible rear propshaft
>> u/j's, finally cured by slackening off the handbrake drum adjuster 1
>> flat.
>> There was only the slightest of drag as well!
>> Badger.

>
> It would seem to me that a disc would be far more likely to be damaged,
> judging by the stone chips all over the lower half of the backing plate on
> my hand brake. A disc with the same braking area of the drum will be
> substantially larger in diameter and hence protrude lower and collect even
> more flying stones.
> JD


That, in all honesty, would be my gut feelings as well, however the question
was asked so I answered it. Ok, purely from an engineering "can it be done"
perspective.
I think you could probably get away with a disc slightly smaller than the
std drum, due to the torque multiplication of the diffs. After all, look how
totally overpowered a std transmission brake is when working efficiently?
Still the dirt ingress to deal with though, and possible drag.
Badger.


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Old 08-18-2005, 03:01   #9 (permalink)
AJH
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:22:57 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:

>I think you could probably get away with a disc slightly smaller than the
>std drum, due to the torque multiplication of the diffs. After all, look how
>totally overpowered a std transmission brake is when working efficiently?
>Still the dirt ingress to deal with though, and possible drag.


An issue with disc brakes for parking is that if they get hot in
normal driving (handbrake left slightly on?) they expand slightly. If
the handbrake is applied whilst hot and then the disc contracts it
shrinks away from the pad, losing clamping force, drums work the other
way.

AJH
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:01   #10 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: Defender Handbrake - Better solutions?

AJH wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:22:57 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>I think you could probably get away with a disc slightly smaller than the
>>std drum, due to the torque multiplication of the diffs. After all, look
>>how totally overpowered a std transmission brake is when working
>>efficiently? Still the dirt ingress to deal with though, and possible
>>drag.

>
> An issue with disc brakes for parking is that if they get hot in
> normal driving (handbrake left slightly on?) they expand slightly. If
> the handbrake is applied whilst hot and then the disc contracts it
> shrinks away from the pad, losing clamping force, drums work the other
> way.
>
> AJH


Discs do not expand significantly when hot (well, not in the direction of
the pads, anyway). Expansion is proportional to the distance involved
(normal to the pad/shoe) - with a drum, the distance is the diameter of the
drum, but with a disc it is the thickness of the disc. this is one reason
why discs are better for service brakes. But your expansion scenario is
another reason why the drum may be better as a parking brake - if dragging,
as it heats up and expands, the drum moves away from the shoes and will
ease the amount of damage, at least slightly. where with the disc there
would be no such effect.

As far as Brian's idea goes that you can get away with a smaller diameter
disc than drum, I'm afraid that won't wash - the size is not dictated by
the leverage, which is what he is talking about, but the swept area - which
will have to be larger in diameter for a disc rather than a drum seeing
that the inside radius of the swept area is limited by the speedo drive
housing size, and the drum mounting flange on the transfer case output
flange. Too little swept area will result in the brake being too easily
overheated with typical misuse or emergency use, and will also wear too
rapidly.

JD
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