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Old 08-18-2005, 06:01   #1 (permalink)
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FS td5 engine line

landrover are advertising the sale of the complete production line for the
storm engine ! wonder who will buy it ?


the last landrover engine ?


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Old 08-18-2005, 06:01   #2 (permalink)
beamendsltd
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Re: FS td5 engine line

In message <de1ovf$d4b$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>
<chris@m-gear.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> landrover are advertising the sale of the complete production line for the
> storm engine ! wonder who will buy it ?
>
>
> the last landrover engine ?


Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(

I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.

Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
>
>


Richard

--
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Old 08-18-2005, 09:01   #3 (permalink)
Tim Hobbs
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line


>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
>
>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
>made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
>
>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
>that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
>Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
>


I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
They've done a very good job of that.

That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
years.

Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....



--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:01   #4 (permalink)
Bob Hobden
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Re: FS td5 engine line


"Tim Hobbs" wrote
>
>>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
>>
>>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
>>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
>>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
>>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
>>made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
>>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
>>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
>>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
>>
>>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
>>that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
>>Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
>>

>
> I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
> one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
> in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
> They've done a very good job of that.
>
> That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
> and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
> years.
>
> Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....
>


Santana?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


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Old 08-19-2005, 02:02   #5 (permalink)
beamendsltd
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line

In message <3mjsiqF17ba2jU1@individual.net>
"Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>
> "Tim Hobbs" wrote
> >
> >>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
> >>
> >>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
> >>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
> >>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
> >>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
> >>made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
> >>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
> >>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
> >>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
> >>
> >>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
> >>that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
> >>Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
> >>

> >
> > I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
> > one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
> > in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
> > They've done a very good job of that.
> >
> > That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
> > and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
> > years.
> >
> > Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....
> >

>
> Santana?
>


Indeed...... and a hell of a lot cheaper. If LR mess with Defender
I can see them catching on.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:01   #6 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line

On or around Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:39:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <3mjsiqF17ba2jU1@individual.net>
> "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tim Hobbs" wrote
>> >
>> >>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
>> >>
>> >>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
>> >>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
>> >>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
>> >>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
>> >>made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
>> >>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
>> >>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
>> >>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
>> >>
>> >>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
>> >>that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
>> >>Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
>> > one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
>> > in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
>> > They've done a very good job of that.
>> >
>> > That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
>> > and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
>> > years.
>> >
>> > Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....
>> >

>>
>> Santana?
>>

>
>Indeed...... and a hell of a lot cheaper. If LR mess with Defender
>I can see them catching on.


If I were in the market for a new 110, it'd almost certainly be a Santana.
The only thing I think they should do is to offer the 146ps version of the
engine at least as an option. 125ps is all very well, but it doesn't
compete with the opposition - they're in danger of falling into the same
trap that LR themselves have never really got out of, and that's the one of
under-powering the diesels. A more-powerful engine in light use will
probably be just as economical, and has the reserve of go when you need it.

I reckon the TD5 should have had the same piston size as the TDi - which
would have given it something around 3.1l capacity which would have been
much more like it. the proposed TD4 would have been 2.5l, and the TD6 would
have been about 3.8 which would have been very useful in the new rangie.

still, 's all water under the bridge.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Confidence: Before important work meetings, boost your confidence by
reading a few pages from "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:01   #7 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:39:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>In message <3mjsiqF17ba2jU1@individual.net>
>> "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Hobbs" wrote
>>> >
>>> >>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
>>> >>
>>> >>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all
>>> >>the
>>> >>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
>>> >>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
>>> >>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will
>>> >>be made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
>>> >>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
>>> >>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
>>> >>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
>>> >>
>>> >>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer
>>> >>feed-back) that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the
>>> >>plot. Even the Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
>>> > one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
>>> > in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
>>> > They've done a very good job of that.
>>> >
>>> > That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
>>> > and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
>>> > years.
>>> >
>>> > Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....
>>> >
>>>
>>> Santana?
>>>

>>
>>Indeed...... and a hell of a lot cheaper. If LR mess with Defender
>>I can see them catching on.

>
> If I were in the market for a new 110, it'd almost certainly be a Santana.
> The only thing I think they should do is to offer the 146ps version of the
> engine at least as an option. 125ps is all very well, but it doesn't
> compete with the opposition - they're in danger of falling into the same
> trap that LR themselves have never really got out of, and that's the one
> of
> under-powering the diesels. A more-powerful engine in light use will
> probably be just as economical, and has the reserve of go when you need
> it.
>
> I reckon the TD5 should have had the same piston size as the TDi - which
> would have given it something around 3.1l capacity which would have been
> much more like it. the proposed TD4 would have been 2.5l, and the TD6
> would have been about 3.8 which would have been very useful in the new
> rangie.
>
> still, 's all water under the bridge.


Yes - but I understand that the engine size of 2.5l is a tax threshold in
some countries that were regarded as market critical - which is why the
2.25 was enlarged to 2.5, but the Tdi and Td5 kept the same capacity.
JD
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:01   #8 (permalink)
Samuel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line

>
> Yes - but I understand that the engine size of 2.5l is a tax threshold in
> some countries that were regarded as market critical - which is why the
> 2.25 was enlarged to 2.5, but the Tdi and Td5 kept the same capacity.
> JD


seems to be the the story with landrovers hey?

- 12 seats in the station wagon (rear 6 barely big enough for a small dog)
so it could dodge the tax.
- lights moved onto wing from the s2a to s3 due to lighting requirements in
certain countries.
- engine size retained at piddly level due to tax issues.

any more to add to the list??


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Old 08-19-2005, 07:01   #9 (permalink)
Natalie Drest
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line


"Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3mjsiqF17ba2jU1@individual.net...
>
> "Tim Hobbs" wrote
> >
> >>Yes - it's bodge jobs from now on - farewell LR's off-road ability :-(
> >>
> >>I was around when the engine for Baby Bently was being chosen - all the
> >>marques values went out of the window (with apprpriate marketing
> >>codswallop) so that a "Not Very Appropriate But Its The Only One In
> >>The Company That Even Comes Close" one can be used. The decision will be
> >>made by people who have never driven off-road, towed anything other
> >>a modern caravan (and certainly never done both together) and are
> >>soley interested in bhp (or kW) at whatever speed the engine runs at
> >>to do 80-90mph so it will look good on Top-Gear.
> >>
> >>Yes - I am cynical, and yes - I have no doubt (from customer feed-back)
> >>that LR are rapidly, as they say round here, losing the plot. Even the
> >>Td5 is only tollerated, rather than liked.
> >>

> >
> > I don't think they've lost the plot, so much as chosen a different
> > one. They have decided to build cars which are the best off-roaders
> > in their class and very desirable to people with lots of money.
> > They've done a very good job of that.
> >
> > That's not necessarily the same as building great off-roaders though,
> > and certainly not about creating vehicles that last for years and
> > years.
> >
> > Nobody is rushing to fill the void though....
> >

>
> Santana?


Now that IS a change of career direction... though it is good to have a
second string to one's bow when the records don't sell like they used to..


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Old 08-19-2005, 15:01   #10 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: FS td5 engine line

Samuel wrote:

>>
>> Yes - but I understand that the engine size of 2.5l is a tax threshold in
>> some countries that were regarded as market critical - which is why the
>> 2.25 was enlarged to 2.5, but the Tdi and Td5 kept the same capacity.
>> JD

>
> seems to be the the story with landrovers hey?
>
> - 12 seats in the station wagon (rear 6 barely big enough for a small dog)
> so it could dodge the tax.
> - lights moved onto wing from the s2a to s3 due to lighting requirements
> in certain countries.
> - engine size retained at piddly level due to tax issues.
>
> any more to add to the list??


The six seats in the back of the wagon are, I think, unique to the UK.
Everywhere else had/has only four. Lot easier than different engines for
different tax regimes, though.
JD
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