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Old 01-15-2006, 05:01   #1 (permalink)
Robert
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Kenlow fan and Intercooler

Hi,

I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a kenlow
fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect the operation
of my intercooler?

Thanks
Robert
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Old 01-15-2006, 08:01   #2 (permalink)
m0bcg
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler

its entirely up to you .

normally the viscous fan with the cowling will obviously draw more air
thru than a kenlowe fan will .

you may find the cooling effect thru the intercooler will be reduced
but whether it will affect the performance noticeably i cannot say,
they arent exactly high performence engines anyway are they .

personally i have gone throught the motions of electric/non electric
fan but in the end i have kept the viscous fan and cowling for
simplicity reasons .

all i do to warm the engine up quicker in winter is to have an
aluminium plate dropped down in the gap between top radiator support
plates which only covers the radiator and leaves 90% of the intercooler
showing .

plate needs to be 500mmx 525mm with a 25mm 90deg bend on the 525 side ,
ie ends up with approx 500x500mm sqaure but one side with bend so it
sits on top of radiator top plate with bend facing engine .

if the cylinder head is aluminium and prone to warping and head gasket
failure if engine overheats then i am inclined to put up with slower
warm ups and cooler running , that way i hope i dont blow the engine
and have a large bill for parts and time off the road unable to be
driven .

personally id have a viscous fan and an electric fan , i dont really
trust the coarse indication of the landrover temp gauge, would prefer
decent temp gauge with degs marked on its face .

ive not had a problem using the viscous fan and it is easy to remove
with just spanner and mallet .

i did take the viscous fan off , but it didnt warm up and faster unless
i blocked the front of radiator , and then if engine did get hot i
couldnt remove the muff plate and have a fan already installed to cool
it down quickly .

an electric fan in front of radiator is ok as far as i know , or some
people remove the cowling and put fan on engine side of radiator so
that air is also blown over engine block .

obviously the intercooler relies on having a lot of cool air passed
through its core , so it needs a large high flow fan to do the job and
no kenlowe fan will pass enough air for that , in fact adding an
electric fan to blow air through to the viscous fan may increase the
cooling effect through intercooler .

its all probably swings and roundabouts and whatever you decide to do
im sure some will agree and some wont .

it seems to work both ways and is just personal preference in the end i
think .

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Old 01-15-2006, 10:02   #3 (permalink)
Mark
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler


"Robert" <kosi@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Mvryf.208$mf2.119@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a kenlow
> fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect the operation
> of my intercooler?
>
> Thanks
> Robert



I know a few people who have just removed the viscous fan entirely and not
bothered with an electric one, no noticably effect on performance or
cooling. With one exception, one person I know was going over the brenner
pass with tonnes of diving eqipment in the back and overheated the car to
the point of doing the head gasket in. It was lots of stuff and the car was
working hard at altitude. Other than that never heard any problems from
anybody else. 9 out of 10 viscous fans sieze on eventually anyways so you
would be saving fuel and cutting down on noise by removing it.

regards,

Mark
110 TD5 DC


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Old 01-15-2006, 11:01   #4 (permalink)
Andrew Mawson
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler


"Mark" <mark@_nospam_sleepybubble.com> wrote in message
news:dqe156$ltr$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Robert" <kosi@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:Mvryf.208$mf2.119@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a

kenlow
> > fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect the

operation
> > of my intercooler?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Robert

>
>
> I know a few people who have just removed the viscous fan entirely

and not
> bothered with an electric one, no noticably effect on performance or
> cooling. With one exception, one person I know was going over the

brenner
> pass with tonnes of diving eqipment in the back and overheated the

car to
> the point of doing the head gasket in. It was lots of stuff and the

car was
> working hard at altitude. Other than that never heard any problems

from
> anybody else. 9 out of 10 viscous fans sieze on eventually anyways

so you
> would be saving fuel and cutting down on noise by removing it.
>
> regards,
>
> Mark
> 110 TD5 DC
>
>


Any comments on different noise levels between a conventional fan and
a Kenlowe? I've been considering fitting one to a staionary engine as
part of a noise reduction excercise (6 litre ford turbo)

AWEM


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Old 01-15-2006, 12:01   #5 (permalink)
Huw
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Posts: n/a
Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler

Robert wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a
> kenlow fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect the
> operation of my intercooler?
>
> Thanks
> Robert



Why would you do such a thing? If LR thought an electric fan was the best
idea for the vehicle they would have fitted one in the factory i'd have
thought.

Huw


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Old 01-15-2006, 12:01   #6 (permalink)
Andrew Mawson
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Posts: n/a
Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler


"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42vk8qF1kf1cuU1@individual.net...
> Robert wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a
> > kenlow fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect

the
> > operation of my intercooler?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Robert

>
>
> Why would you do such a thing? If LR thought an electric fan was the

best
> idea for the vehicle they would have fitted one in the factory i'd

have
> thought.
>
> Huw
>
>


Unless it was cheaper not to, says the cynic in me !

AWEM


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Old 01-15-2006, 13:01   #7 (permalink)
Robert
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler

Huw wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a
>>kenlow fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect the
>> operation of my intercooler?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Robert

>
>
>
> Why would you do such a thing? If LR thought an electric fan was the best
> idea for the vehicle they would have fitted one in the factory i'd have
> thought.
>
> Huw
>
>


Well, to answer some questions. Firstly, I have actually just removed
the viscous fan and have been driving around without it. I have noticed
a very significant reduction in engine noise, as well as improved warm
up time. Also, the engine now stays at temperature. And, before someone
says it, yes, I have tried replacing the thermostat, and it made no
difference what so ever.

To answer Huw's question, while I am obviously a very big fan of land
rover and their product, having had my own one since the age of ten, I
dont think I would be the first one to point out that they are not
perfect. Land rover manufacture their vehicles for a very general
market, and not necessarily just the UK market. I have been told by land
rover, as well as a number of independent dealers that the cooling in my
vehicle was designed to cope with hot and arduose desert conditions,
which is fair, considering the market placement of the vehicle. However,
my particular vehicle will be spending 99.9999999% of its life in the
UK, where it is very unlikely to ever encounter anything even vaguely
resembling a desert. Therefore, the ability of the vehicle to warm up
faster, as well as the reduction in engine strain caused by the removal
of the fan will be far more beneficial. Should I ever venture off to
morroco or some other desert like environment, and I felt for some
reason that the electric fan was going to let me down, I could simply
replace the viscous fan. This being said, considering the particular
workings of the TD5 engine, if I was to start becoming overly concerned
about electrical failures in the vehicle, I think I would be better of
going for an older 300tdi!

Going back to my original question, thank you to those that responded. I
had not actually noticed any reduction in performance from the inter
cooler, and was just wondering if anyone had had any particular
experience of this.

Robert

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Old 01-15-2006, 13:01   #8 (permalink)
Huw
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler

Robert wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a
>>> kenlow fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect
>>> the operation of my intercooler?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Robert

>>
>>
>>
>> Why would you do such a thing? If LR thought an electric fan was the
>> best idea for the vehicle they would have fitted one in the factory
>> i'd have thought.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>

>
> Well, to answer some questions. Firstly, I have actually just removed
> the viscous fan and have been driving around without it. I have
> noticed a very significant reduction in engine noise,


Yes, fans are noisy things. Typically a viscous fan will engage after
starting a cold engine and for the first half mile or so before disengaging
until actually needed.


as well as
> improved warm up time.


I find that hard to believe considering the above and the fact that the
thermostat prevents the radiator having any part in cooling a cold engine.




Also, the engine now stays at temperature.
> And, before someone says it, yes, I have tried replacing the
> thermostat, and it made no difference what so ever.


Then perhaps you have another dodgy one. Not unknown.




>
> To answer Huw's question, while I am obviously a very big fan of land
> rover and their product, having had my own one since the age of ten, I
> dont think I would be the first one to point out that they are not
> perfect. Land rover manufacture their vehicles for a very general
> market, and not necessarily just the UK market. I have been told by
> land rover, as well as a number of independent dealers that the
> cooling in my vehicle was designed to cope with hot and arduose
> desert conditions, which is fair, considering the market placement of
> the vehicle. However, my particular vehicle will be spending
> 99.9999999% of its life in the UK, where it is very unlikely to ever
> encounter anything even vaguely resembling a desert.


No towing or hard offroad work even? OK, fair enough an electric fan will be
fine but when it is needed it will switch itself on in the same way as a
viscous fan does. It will also create noise when it does so and use power.



Therefore, the
> ability of the vehicle to warm up faster, as well as the reduction in
> engine strain caused by the removal of the fan will be far more
> beneficial.


I thought it already had a viscous switched fan?



Should I ever venture off to morroco or some other desert
> like environment, and I felt for some reason that the electric fan
> was going to let me down, I could simply replace the viscous fan.
> This being said, considering the particular workings of the TD5
> engine, if I was to start becoming overly concerned about electrical
> failures in the vehicle, I think I would be better of going for an
> older 300tdi!
> Going back to my original question, thank you to those that
> responded. I had not actually noticed any reduction in performance
> from the inter cooler, and was just wondering if anyone had had any
> particular experience of this.
>
> Robert


You will not notice a reduction in power but if you were to actually use it
hard at low speeds, for instance to pull a loaded sheep trailer in low ratio
up a mountain, as a lot of these things do on occassion, then you will run
into all kinds of problems from reduced power to overly hot combustion
unless the electric fan pulls through the intercooler as well as the
radiator. Remember that the original cowling will probably be removed to fit
the electric fan.

Huw


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Old 01-15-2006, 23:01   #9 (permalink)
fanie
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler



>>>>
>>>> I am thinking of removing the fan from my 110 TD5, and fitting a
>>>> kenlow fan. However, does anyone know if this is likely to effect
>>>> the operation of my intercooler?
>>>>


I have rebulit my 300TDi on a few occassions due to overheating
issues. My take on things is as follows. An ali cylinder head goes
from quite happy to completely shagged within a few seconds of getting
hot. A new head for a TD5 is long $$$'s. Your temp gauge is close to
useless. Keep the fan.

I can assure you that most vehicle temp gauges are kak. They are
designed not to move around too much so that people do not get alarmed
by normal fluctuations. I have run my landy with National Instruments
Datalogging equip attached with thermocouples measuring top tank and
bottom tank, air intake temp, under bonnet temp and block temp.

I could show you the graphs, but rest assured the temp are all over
the show and there was not a sign of movement from the temp gauge.

In summary by the time your temp gauge starts to give some indication
of a problem, your engine is probably already toast. Even in England,
I am sure traffic jams are not uncommon, and sitting in one for a long
time will tend strain your cooling system, not to mention that fact
that yoru fan will not be able to dump the underbonnet air.

Personally, I think you are nuts to run an engine as expensive to
rebuild as a TD5 without the proper cooling setup.

Just my tupence worth.

Regards
Stephen

PS: I am considering changing my Disco 300Tdi for either a Disco or
Defeneder TD5 at some point, but have the spares for TD5's come down
to sensible levels yet?
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Old 01-16-2006, 02:01   #10 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: Kenlow fan and Intercooler

On or around Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:28:39 +0200, fanie
<fanie@checkitsystems.com> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Personally, I think you are nuts to run an engine as expensive to
>rebuild as a TD5 without the proper cooling setup.
>
>Just my tupence worth.
>


I'm inclined to agree. The 300 TDi had a minor water loss problem for a
long time, but the actual failure that did the head in was a sudden one.

Mind, in temperate climates, the engine can idle all day without
overheating, I suspect - these modern diesels are sufficently efficient as
not to need quite so much cooling except when working hard.

especially true of the one LR don't make, the non-turbo Di. The Ford 2.5
one I have in the minibus needs the rad screening in cold weather to
actually achieve a sensible running temperature in normal use, and when
idling, the heater is capable of over-cooling the engine. I've noted this
trait on other Di diesels. Turbo ones generate a bit more heat when
running, and quite a lot more probably if working hard, but very little more
at idle.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea." Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood
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