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Old 01-09-2006, 09:01   #1 (permalink)
Richard Smith
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New Defender gearbox crunch?

Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the morning I
have great difficulty changing from first to second gear. This seems to get
better as the journey proceeds. I have had the vehicle for six weeks now but
the problem still persists.
Is this a gearbox problem or do I need some minor adjustment to the clutch.
regards
Rich.


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Old 01-09-2006, 09:01   #2 (permalink)
beamendsltd
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?

In message <Qrwwf.110677$PD2.21708@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
"Richard Smith" <richard.smith58@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the morning I
> have great difficulty changing from first to second gear. This seems to get
> better as the journey proceeds. I have had the vehicle for six weeks now but
> the problem still persists.
> Is this a gearbox problem or do I need some minor adjustment to the clutch.
> regards
> Rich.
>
>


Assuming you mean new new, then take it back and get it sorted out -
somethings not right and it won't mend itself....

Richard
--
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:01   #3 (permalink)
Graham Carter
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?


"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:87f69be64d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> In message <Qrwwf.110677$PD2.21708@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
> "Richard Smith" <richard.smith58@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the morning I
> > have great difficulty changing from first to second gear. This seems to

get
> > better as the journey proceeds. I have had the vehicle for six weeks now

but
> > the problem still persists.
> > Is this a gearbox problem or do I need some minor adjustment to the

clutch.
> > regards
> > Rich.
> >
> >

>
> Assuming you mean new new, then take it back and get it sorted out -
> somethings not right and it won't mend itself....
>
> Richard
> --


Hi,

My Discovery started doing that two weeks before the warranty ran out.
LOcal Zimbabwe dealer fixed it under warranty - I think it was a synchromesh
problem.

I second Richard - if it's under warranty, get it back in quick!

Cheers!
Graham
--
Carter Computer Services (Pvt) Ltd
P.O. Box A1619
Avondale
Harare
Zimbabwe
Tel: +263 4 300082
Cell: +263 91 329310
Fax: +263 918 329310
email:gcarter(at)mweb(dot)co(dot)zw



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Old 01-09-2006, 13:01   #4 (permalink)
m0bcg
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?

hi richard.
you say NEW DEFENDER , do you mean brand new or new to you, ie
secondhand used but a few years old .

put it this way , i know a lot of people seem to say run synthetic
gearbox oil , but unfortunately i dont see it this way , not after
myself and 3 other people i know who see the same problem, crunchy gear
shifts on cold mornings .

i have driven and worked on landrovers and rangerovers for over
24years and everytime i see a gearbox "crunch " problem , if it isnt a
problem with the gears it is allways the oil , its simply to thick in
viscosity.

i have never had a gearbox run better on anything other than DEXRON 11
OR 111 [2 or 3] automatic transmission fluid , this is by far the best
oil for the lt77 and r380 gearboxes .
it is vegetable oil and in afraid of all the synthetic oils i have had
they are simply a little too thick .

the crunch you may see could be just simply due to the gearbox oil
being too thick .

my mate has just had the synthetic oil taken out of his discovery box
and dexron put in and he says it drives lovely now .

with the old oil it was very noisey .

if you want to see if a thinner oil in the box will make it change gear
better you can add a pint or so of diesel to the oil already in the
box .
if the gearchanges improve then you know you need thinner oil in it .

then you can just renew the oil with [red] dexron [ GM general motors
]or ATF [ATF is fords version ].

whatever oil you put in the landy MAIN gearbox , it needs to be like
piss , pardon my french .

i know other people will tell you different but believe me , DEXRON 2
or 3 is what you need in there .
if it still crunches after a few days after you put this oil in then
it may be another problem .

mind you most landies can crunch between 1st and 2nd gear if you try
changing gear fast and at full speed in 1st gear , if you hold the
clutch and count to 2 and then change gear it may go in ok everytime .

if its a NEW defender and wont change from 1st to 2nd then its also a
case of oil too thick in gearbox, i had this with a brand new gearbox i
had changed and they put some other type of oil in than dexron auto
trans fluid .

change the fluid , its not going to cost a lot , then go from there .

if it works youve nothing else to worry about .

cheers
ian


Richard Smith wrote:
> Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the morning I
> have great difficulty changing from first to second gear. This seems to get
> better as the journey proceeds. I have had the vehicle for six weeks now but
> the problem still persists.
> Is this a gearbox problem or do I need some minor adjustment to the clutch.
> regards
> Rich.


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Old 01-09-2006, 15:01   #5 (permalink)
Dave Liquorice
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Posts: n/a
Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:46:40 GMT, Richard Smith wrote:

> Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the
> morning I have great difficulty changing from first to second gear.
> This seems to get better as the journey proceeds.


When I asked this question in here about 6 months ago the responses
were "that's normal for the R380 box"...

The box that came with the vehicle (2001 DII) died on the M6, that was
a little fussy about 1st to 2nd. The replacement box is also fussy.
I've simply learnt to double declutch the first few 1st to 2nd gear
changes. B-) Once it's been driven a few miles it's fine. This would
sort of support the "thick oil" when cold theory.

--
Cheers new5pam@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Old 01-10-2006, 03:01   #6 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?

On or around Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:54:43 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<new5pam@howhill.com> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:46:40 GMT, Richard Smith wrote:
>
>> Have just got new defender. On starting off first thing in the
>> morning I have great difficulty changing from first to second gear.
>> This seems to get better as the journey proceeds.

>
>When I asked this question in here about 6 months ago the responses
>were "that's normal for the R380 box"...
>
>The box that came with the vehicle (2001 DII) died on the M6, that was
>a little fussy about 1st to 2nd. The replacement box is also fussy.
>I've simply learnt to double declutch the first few 1st to 2nd gear
>changes. B-) Once it's been driven a few miles it's fine. This would
>sort of support the "thick oil" when cold theory.


I've used SAE75 fully synthetic and it makes for a slow shift the first
couple of times on cold mornings. However, I tend to think that the dexron
II gets a bit thin when hot. Dunno, really; it probably depends on your
climate. In cold areas you'd do better with the thinner dexron II, since
your cold mornings outweigh your hot days. In hotter areas, I'd tend to
think you might do better with something a bit higher spec. and thicker.

The problem with SAE 75 only shows at less than about 5 degrees and witht he
vehicle stone cold.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
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Old 01-11-2006, 06:01   #7 (permalink)
Huw
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?


"m0bcg" <almacottage@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1136833984.149881.56440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> hi richard.

SNIP a load of piss poor information on Dexron.


Dexron has been superseded as the recommended oil for both R380 and earlier
LT77 boxes by specific MT type oil available from Land Rover, Texaco and
many others. It provides superior synchro and wear properties for a longer
service period than ATF [Dexron] while being completely compatible with it.

I have used Ford MT 95 oil, which is similar to the current factory
recommendation, in my LT77 box for around 15 years now and the synchro
performance has been superb while it would deteriorate at anything over 6000
miles service when using Dexron.

Huw


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Old 01-11-2006, 07:01   #8 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?

On or around Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:29 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"m0bcg" <almacottage@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
>news:1136833984.149881.56440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> hi richard.

>SNIP a load of piss poor information on Dexron.
>
>
>Dexron has been superseded as the recommended oil for both R380 and earlier
>LT77 boxes by specific MT type oil available from Land Rover, Texaco and
>many others. It provides superior synchro and wear properties for a longer
>service period than ATF [Dexron] while being completely compatible with it.
>
>I have used Ford MT 95 oil, which is similar to the current factory
>recommendation, in my LT77 box for around 15 years now and the synchro
>performance has been superb while it would deteriorate at anything over 6000
>miles service when using Dexron.


MT75 is what I've had in both 77s and 380s here. The only thing I've ever
noticed is a slightly balky change when very cold. I think MT75 is slightly
heavier than Dexron, from looking at it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:01   #9 (permalink)
Huw
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Re: New Defender gearbox crunch?


"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
news:dl4as19hmo85neir4rnalg1qdkfrc3hcv1@4ax.com...
> On or around Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:29 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>"m0bcg" <almacottage@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:1136833984.149881.56440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> hi richard.

>>SNIP a load of piss poor information on Dexron.
>>
>>
>>Dexron has been superseded as the recommended oil for both R380 and
>>earlier
>>LT77 boxes by specific MT type oil available from Land Rover, Texaco and
>>many others. It provides superior synchro and wear properties for a longer
>>service period than ATF [Dexron] while being completely compatible with
>>it.
>>
>>I have used Ford MT 95 oil, which is similar to the current factory
>>recommendation, in my LT77 box for around 15 years now and the synchro
>>performance has been superb while it would deteriorate at anything over
>>6000
>>miles service when using Dexron.

>
> MT75 is what I've had in both 77s and 380s here. The only thing I've ever
> noticed is a slightly balky change when very cold. I think MT75 is
> slightly
> heavier than Dexron, from looking at it.
>


I don't think it is myself. Certainly my similar Ford specification oil is
no heavier, similar to a 10w/30 engine oil or a 75w transmission oil I would
say. Do you reckon that the MT75 oil is perhaps more like 15w/40 or SAE 80?

The first to second change is always a bit slow when cold and the previous
poster was correct in that it should not be hurried. When very hot it can
also lose effectiveness and also with ATF [Dexron] that has seen some
use.......I found it deteriorated at anything over 6000 miles hard use and
had to change it at around that interval. MT oil seems to perform acceptably
for much longer and I'm almost ashamed to say that the latest fill has been
in my 110 for around 45000 miles. [I've been expecting either the box or the
whole vehicle to die for the last 30,000 miles but it just keeps on chugging
along].

The MT oil I use was introduced specifically to cure a reliability problem
with their Transit vans where the box had an unacceptably short service
life. This was due to extreme loads and shear stresses breaking down the oil
an leading to component failure. The oil did the job. Liquid engineering you
could say. An MT type oil has the same benefits in the LR gearbox but it
took over 10 years more than it should have for LR to recognise the fact and
specify it in preference to inferior Dexron ATF.

Huw


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