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Old 03-29-2005, 14:02   #1 (permalink)
Tim Hobbs
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Re: OT - GPS navigation

>>Do any of the products out there do this?
>
>What report back a location via telemetry at no addition cost to a
>cellphone owner? ;-).
>


Aah, the holy grail...

No, this isn't what I'm after. The navigation is a 'nice to have' -
my application can work with just a dumb 100 GPS receiver (and indeed
we will start developing using my eTrex and serial cable). It will
sell much better, however, with the navigation as part of the
offering.




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
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Old 03-29-2005, 14:02   #2 (permalink)
sylva@despammed.com
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Re: OT - GPS navigation

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:08:12 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:

>>>Do any of the products out there do this?

>>
>>What report back a location via telemetry at no addition cost to a
>>cellphone owner? ;-).
>>

>
>Aah, the holy grail...


Is it? Seems eminently doable.
>
>No, this isn't what I'm after.


What the 76cs or remote monitoring?

AJH
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Old 03-29-2005, 16:02   #3 (permalink)
Tim Hobbs
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:47:31 +0100, sylva@despammed.com wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:08:12 +0100, Tim Hobbs
><tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:
>
>>>>Do any of the products out there do this?
>>>
>>>What report back a location via telemetry at no addition cost to a
>>>cellphone owner? ;-).
>>>

>>
>>Aah, the holy grail...

>
>Is it? Seems eminently doable.


How? You have 'data' in the vehicle and you want to report it to a
remote location. How can you transmit this data free of charges? You
could dial up and collect it, but either way somebody pays. For a
commercial user it doesn't much matter whether the costs are assigned
to the individual mobile or the corporate switchboard.

BTW, it isn't just location data I want to send.

It's all academic for my application - at close of play the vehicles
all go back to the depot so 802.11 at the weighbridge will do
nicely... Not real time, but very cheap!

>>
>>No, this isn't what I'm after.

>
>What the 76cs or remote monitoring?
>


The remote monitoring...
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
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Old 03-29-2005, 16:02   #4 (permalink)
Paul S. Brown
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

Tim Hobbs wrote:

>>>Do any of the products out there do this?

>>
>>What report back a location via telemetry at no addition cost to a
>>cellphone owner? ;-).
>>

>
> Aah, the holy grail...
>
> No, this isn't what I'm after. The navigation is a 'nice to have' -
> my application can work with just a dumb £100 GPS receiver (and indeed
> we will start developing using my eTrex and serial cable). It will
> sell much better, however, with the navigation as part of the
> offering.
>
>
>
>


So what is it you're actually looking for here? Just a GPS device, or a full
nav system?

I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be asking for two and a half
things here. If it's a straight GPS you're looking for then you could do a
lot worse than the Sirtek GPS mice that go for less than £70.

As for the reporting back its location - what's the problem with that? I
used to be the product manager for something that would do that itself.

Oh yes - little cautious word - be *very* careful in the Location Based
Services space - a certain employer of mine has a hell of a lot of broadly
worded patents it likes to enforce. Drop me a mail offline for any detail
you want.

P.
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:01   #5 (permalink)
Tim Hobbs
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:12:01 +0100, "Paul S. Brown"
<usenet@geekstuff.tv> wrote:

>Tim Hobbs wrote:
>
>>>>Do any of the products out there do this?
>>>
>>>What report back a location via telemetry at no addition cost to a
>>>cellphone owner? ;-).
>>>

>>
>> Aah, the holy grail...
>>
>> No, this isn't what I'm after. The navigation is a 'nice to have' -
>> my application can work with just a dumb 100 GPS receiver (and indeed
>> we will start developing using my eTrex and serial cable). It will
>> sell much better, however, with the navigation as part of the
>> offering.
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
>So what is it you're actually looking for here? Just a GPS device, or a full
>nav system?
>
>I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be asking for two and a half
>things here. If it's a straight GPS you're looking for then you could do a
>lot worse than the Sirtek GPS mice that go for less than 70.
>
>As for the reporting back its location - what's the problem with that? I
>used to be the product manager for something that would do that itself.
>
>Oh yes - little cautious word - be *very* careful in the Location Based
>Services space - a certain employer of mine has a hell of a lot of broadly
>worded patents it likes to enforce. Drop me a mail offline for any detail
>you want.
>
>P.


I'm pretty clear what I want in my mind, but probably haven't spelled
it out very well.

I want a TomTom Go with a serial output, which spews NMEA data
simultaneous to the normal nav functions.

This is not a location-based service. It is pure data collection (at
least for the moment). We do have other projects however...

Cheers


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
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Old 03-30-2005, 13:02   #6 (permalink)
sylva@despammed.com
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:06:36 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:

>>Is it? Seems eminently doable.

>
>How? You have 'data' in the vehicle and you want to report it to a
>remote location. How can you transmit this data free of charges? You
>could dial up and collect it, but either way somebody pays. For a
>commercial user it doesn't much matter whether the costs are assigned
>to the individual mobile or the corporate switchboard.


Seeing as Paul has flagged up a conflict I'd best watch my Ps and Qs.
I wonder if he works for June at Box telematics.

Anyway suffice to say that there is access available to the control
channels in gsm which enables transmission of certain data without any
handshaking protocol, it's all beyond my knowledge of how and why but
it is being done. I wonder if it does constitute an unlawful act but
doubt it. I looked into it after being trapped in a vehicle with a
broken pelvis some years back, I dropped my phone and could not reach
it. E-mail is valid if you need more but it's not my field by a long
shot.

>BTW, it isn't just location data I want to send.


OK
>
>It's all academic for my application - at close of play the vehicles
>all go back to the depot so 802.11 at the weighbridge will do
>nicely... Not real time, but very cheap!


fairy nuff but real time tracking costs the same ;-)
>
>>>
>>>No, this isn't what I'm after.

>>
>>What the 76cs or remote monitoring?
>>

>
>The remote monitoring...


Leaving aside what your main reason for the gps unit is, you said it
may be an additional attraction to offer route planning. I have been
in posh cars with sat nav and apart from the annoyance of the voice
prompts the only thing they offer over my personal navigation software
is re routing if the road ahead is blocked.

With these little hand held things offering auto routing it looks like
all the functionality but re routing is now in the hand held unit.

In fact I seldom connect the garmin 12xl into the laptop and normally
plot a route on my desktop, upload it to the garmin as waypoints at
major intersections, becoming more frequent as I near my destination.
It is quite interesting how close the actual roads/track are to the
plotted course and how near to a straight line a journey usually is.

My last trip to Gt Yarmouth was upset by the M11 being closed at
stansted, I did need to look at a map but a diversion up the A120 soon
had me back on track, until I met a 5 car pile up just south of
norwich :-(. I was only 20mins late overall though.

AJH

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Old 03-30-2005, 13:02   #7 (permalink)
Paul S. Brown
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

sylva@despammed.com wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:06:36 +0100, Tim Hobbs
> <tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote:
>
>>>Is it? Seems eminently doable.

>>
>>How? You have 'data' in the vehicle and you want to report it to a
>>remote location. How can you transmit this data free of charges? You
>>could dial up and collect it, but either way somebody pays. For a
>>commercial user it doesn't much matter whether the costs are assigned
>>to the individual mobile or the corporate switchboard.

>
> Seeing as Paul has flagged up a conflict I'd best watch my Ps and Qs.
> I wonder if he works for June at Box telematics.


Nope - for a rather large ex-monopoly who generally provide dialtone to
people. They just happen to be big in LBS as well.

>
> Anyway suffice to say that there is access available to the control
> channels in gsm which enables transmission of certain data without any
> handshaking protocol, it's all beyond my knowledge of how and why but
> it is being done. I wonder if it does constitute an unlawful act but
> doubt it. I looked into it after being trapped in a vehicle with a
> broken pelvis some years back, I dropped my phone and could not reach
> it. E-mail is valid if you need more but it's not my field by a long
> shot.


I can more or less guarantee you that any network finding you doing this
would shoot you. Free data transfer is highly frowned upon.

>>It's all academic for my application - at close of play the vehicles
>>all go back to the depot so 802.11 at the weighbridge will do
>>nicely... Not real time, but very cheap!

>
> fairy nuff but real time tracking costs the same ;-)


Not really - Tim's talking about bulk dumping data over a genuinely cost
free datalink at a known point rather than trying to do a continuous update
which would really incur a cost unless you do something that would be
frowned upon by the infrastructure owners.

Tim - I've done quite a bit of work in the LBS and telematics space of late
- I was an infrastructure and application type before I got shunted to
marketing and have done some work on some of the big national telematics
programmes of late. Drop me a line if you want any wierdass ideas :@)

P.
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Old 03-30-2005, 13:02   #8 (permalink)
sylva@despammed.com
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Posts: n/a
Re: OT - GPS navigation

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:14:08 +0100, "Paul S. Brown"
<usenet@geekstuff.tv> wrote:

>I can more or less guarantee you that any network finding you doing this
>would shoot you. Free data transfer is highly frowned upon.


I believe you.
>
>>>It's all academic for my application - at close of play the vehicles
>>>all go back to the depot so 802.11 at the weighbridge will do
>>>nicely... Not real time, but very cheap!

>>
>> fairy nuff but real time tracking costs the same ;-)

>
>Not really - Tim's talking about bulk dumping data over a genuinely cost
>free datalink at a known point rather than trying to do a continuous update
>which would really incur a cost unless you do something that would be
>frowned upon by the infrastructure owners.


I realise this, that's not to say it won't work, I bow to your
superior knowledge though.

AJH


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