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Old 03-21-2005, 01:13   #1 (permalink)
corby thomas
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers


"corby thomas" <corby.thomas@virgin.net> wrote in message news:...
> Can any body tell me if the TD5 intercooler has a larger air volume

capacity
> than the TDI unit. I have recently replaced the Tdi intercooler with a

TD5
> unit on a Mazda 3.5 SLTi powered 110 CSW. Havnt really noticed any power
> difference (although havnt adjusted fuel etc yet).
>
> C Thomas
>
>



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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #2 (permalink)
Ian Rawlings
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On 2005-03-10, corby thomas <corby.thomas@virgin.net> wrote:

> Havnt really noticed any power difference (although havnt adjusted
> fuel etc yet).


I had a basic intercooler upgrade some time ago and the fuel pump
tweak was a requirement, otherwise there wasn't going to be much
effect. More air into the engine but no more fuel apparently. Try
doing the pump and seeing if it makes a difference.

Note that my intercooler went from a standard 300TDi intercooler
covering about a third of the radiator area to a massive one covering
the whole front of the radiator.

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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #3 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On or around Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:02:14 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<news05@tarcus.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2005-03-10, corby thomas <corby.thomas@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> Havnt really noticed any power difference (although havnt adjusted
>> fuel etc yet).

>
>I had a basic intercooler upgrade some time ago and the fuel pump
>tweak was a requirement, otherwise there wasn't going to be much
>effect. More air into the engine but no more fuel apparently. Try
>doing the pump and seeing if it makes a difference.
>
>Note that my intercooler went from a standard 300TDi intercooler
>covering about a third of the radiator area to a massive one covering
>the whole front of the radiator.


mind I dunno what that does to your engine cooling.

AIUI, the point about increasing the intercooler size is that it allows you
to increase the boost pressure, which in turn may require pump (or ECU, as
may be) tweaks.

The converse point is that there's little gain from upping the boost without
increasing the intercooling.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #4 (permalink)
Ian Rawlings
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On 2005-03-12, Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

> AIUI, the point about increasing the intercooler size is that it
> allows you to increase the boost pressure, which in turn may require
> pump (or ECU, as may be) tweaks.


There's a little more to it than that, the cooler the air the better
the mix burns and the more power you get as a result, plus of course
you can get more air in there at the same pressure than you can if the
air's warmer. As the air expands when it's hot a pipe at 1 bar
pressure will hold less hot air than it would hold cold air, so
without altering the boost pressure you get more air into the
cylinders. Slightly unintuitive perhaps... On my plastic rocket a
popular-ish modification is to increase the size of the chargecooler,
this gives about 0.5-1BHP extra per 1 degree C that you reduce the
post-turbo air by according to temperature probes and dyno runs.
Increasing the size of the intercooler on a landy has the same effect
but I don't know what kind of gains you get on a 300TDi.

Of course if you cram more air into the engine then you'll need more
fuel to make good use of that.

> The converse point is that there's little gain from upping the boost
> without increasing the intercooling.


IIRC there is a point in doing it, but it does start to become
self-defeating as the extra boost gets cancelled to a degree by the
increase in air volume due to the extra heat. You can also start
getting early detonation, certainly in petrol engines, I'm not sure
how that translates to diesels.

I'm afraid most of my understanding of turbocharging and intercooling
comes from Lotus turbocharged petrol engines with water-to-air
chargecoolers, not sure how well it translates to Landrover air-to-air
intercooled diesels!!

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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #5 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On or around Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:44:32 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<news05@tarcus.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>IIRC there is a point in doing it, but it does start to become
>self-defeating as the extra boost gets cancelled to a degree by the
>increase in air volume due to the extra heat. You can also start
>getting early detonation, certainly in petrol engines, I'm not sure
>how that translates to diesels.
>


it's rumoured that too much boost on a standard TDi leads to melted pistons.
Hence not bothering to up it unless you also increase the cooler capacity.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #6 (permalink)
Ian Rawlings
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On 2005-03-12, Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

> it's rumoured that too much boost on a standard TDi leads to melted
> pistons. Hence not bothering to up it unless you also increase the
> cooler capacity.


Yes, that's the effect of detonation, the pistons and head get
torched, on high-performance engines the piston tops and injector
spray patterns are shaped to avoid it amongst other things, I'd expect
the same to be required even in a 300TDi. It's also what
water-injection kits are designed to prevent, so you can boost higher.

There's no substitute for cubic inches! Just whack a small-block
chevvy in there....

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:14   #7 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: TD5 TDI intercoolers

On or around Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:07:54 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<news05@tarcus.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2005-03-12, Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
>> it's rumoured that too much boost on a standard TDi leads to melted
>> pistons. Hence not bothering to up it unless you also increase the
>> cooler capacity.

>
>Yes, that's the effect of detonation, the pistons and head get
>torched, on high-performance engines the piston tops and injector
>spray patterns are shaped to avoid it amongst other things, I'd expect
>the same to be required even in a 300TDi. It's also what
>water-injection kits are designed to prevent, so you can boost higher.
>
>There's no substitute for cubic inches! Just whack a small-block
>chevvy in there....


Those 6.2 V8 diesels have a certain following.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
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