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Old 06-14-2005, 00:32   #1 (permalink)
Timo Wildschut
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Rear axle problem

Hi group,

2002 Defender 110 TD5

This is the vehicle from a friend of mine. We were driving it the other
day and had to stop at a railway crossing. Train passes and we continued
our well deserved journey through the german countryside. Halfway the
tracks there was a loud clunck and forward motion stopped. Since there
was a second train approaching we jumped out and started pushing the
car, clearing the tracks just in time. Murphy's law did apply that day.

So, after some research on the side of the road we came to the
conclusion it must be de rear diff shot or one of the rear driveshafts
broken. With the handbrake applied we have motion on the front axle,
double speed that is :). Drove home with 4x4 locked.

Before I open up the rear diff, is this a known problem? Can anyone give
me a hint where to look at? Also, are the rear axles fullfloating so I
can remove the driveshafts with ease? I am a moderate DIY mechanic but
have no experience on landrovers whatsoever. (have a 1980 Chevy G30 myself)

Cheers,

Timo
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:32   #2 (permalink)
beamendsltd
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Posts: n/a
Re: Rear axle problem

In message <573a6$42a410d8$546b83c9$25938@news.multikabel.nl>
Timo Wildschut <somewhere@earth.sure> wrote:

> Hi group,
>
> 2002 Defender 110 TD5
>
> This is the vehicle from a friend of mine. We were driving it the other
> day and had to stop at a railway crossing. Train passes and we continued
> our well deserved journey through the german countryside. Halfway the
> tracks there was a loud clunck and forward motion stopped. Since there
> was a second train approaching we jumped out and started pushing the
> car, clearing the tracks just in time. Murphy's law did apply that day.
>
> So, after some research on the side of the road we came to the
> conclusion it must be de rear diff shot or one of the rear driveshafts
> broken. With the handbrake applied we have motion on the front axle,
> double speed that is :). Drove home with 4x4 locked.
>
> Before I open up the rear diff, is this a known problem? Can anyone give
> me a hint where to look at? Also, are the rear axles fullfloating so I
> can remove the driveshafts with ease? I am a moderate DIY mechanic but
> have no experience on landrovers whatsoever. (have a 1980 Chevy G30 myself)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Timo


I'd say your diagnosis is correct - but have a look at the drive
flanges before pulling the shafts - there was a (large) batch of
incorrectly heat-treated drive flanges at about the time the vehicle
in question was built which leads to stripped splines on the flanges.
It's quite possible, if this is the case, that the half-shafts will
still be ok and not need pulling.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
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Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:32   #3 (permalink)
JD
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Re: Rear axle problem

Timo Wildschut wrote:

> Hi group,
>
> 2002 Defender 110 TD5
>
> This is the vehicle from a friend of mine. We were driving it the other
> day and had to stop at a railway crossing. Train passes and we continued
> our well deserved journey through the german countryside. Halfway the
> tracks there was a loud clunck and forward motion stopped. Since there
> was a second train approaching we jumped out and started pushing the
> car, clearing the tracks just in time. Murphy's law did apply that day.
>
> So, after some research on the side of the road we came to the
> conclusion it must be de rear diff shot or one of the rear driveshafts
> broken. With the handbrake applied we have motion on the front axle,
> double speed that is :). Drove home with 4x4 locked.
>
> Before I open up the rear diff, is this a known problem? Can anyone give
> me a hint where to look at? Also, are the rear axles fullfloating so I
> can remove the driveshafts with ease? I am a moderate DIY mechanic but
> have no experience on landrovers whatsoever. (have a 1980 Chevy G30
> myself)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Timo


As Beamends says - probable trouble is one of the drive flanges on the outer
end of the drive axles is stripped. This seems to be a known problem with
TD5 110s - I am not sure that the problem is heat treatment, rather that
the changed arrangement of hub seals leaves the splines able to run dry,
and when they do, they rapidly wear out, especially in a dusty environment.
To replace them you do not even have to jack it up, to check it, just pry
the hubcap off. The spline on the axle may or may not be worn enough to
need replacement.
JD
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:32   #4 (permalink)
Timo Wildschut
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Rear axle problem

JD wrote:
> Timo Wildschut wrote:
>
>
>>Hi group,
>>
>>2002 Defender 110 TD5
>>
>>This is the vehicle from a friend of mine. We were driving it the other
>>day and had to stop at a railway crossing. Train passes and we continued
>>our well deserved journey through the german countryside. Halfway the
>>tracks there was a loud clunck and forward motion stopped. Since there
>>was a second train approaching we jumped out and started pushing the
>>car, clearing the tracks just in time. Murphy's law did apply that day.
>>
>>So, after some research on the side of the road we came to the
>>conclusion it must be de rear diff shot or one of the rear driveshafts
>>broken. With the handbrake applied we have motion on the front axle,
>>double speed that is :). Drove home with 4x4 locked.
>>
>>Before I open up the rear diff, is this a known problem? Can anyone give
>>me a hint where to look at? Also, are the rear axles fullfloating so I
>>can remove the driveshafts with ease? I am a moderate DIY mechanic but
>>have no experience on landrovers whatsoever. (have a 1980 Chevy G30
>>myself)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Timo

>
>
> As Beamends says - probable trouble is one of the drive flanges on the outer
> end of the drive axles is stripped. This seems to be a known problem with
> TD5 110s - I am not sure that the problem is heat treatment, rather that
> the changed arrangement of hub seals leaves the splines able to run dry,
> and when they do, they rapidly wear out, especially in a dusty environment.
> To replace them you do not even have to jack it up, to check it, just pry
> the hubcap off. The spline on the axle may or may not be worn enough to
> need replacement.
> JD


Thanx for the fast replies all.

I took out the toolkit and did some research. It is indeed one of the
hub flanges stripped out. The driveshaft itself is stripped aswell. Went
to local dealer and ordered shaft, flange and seal. Gonna cost 350,
ouch. Luckily it's not my car :) Parts will be delivered in a few days.
This all happened on the right side. Will it be just a matter of time
before the leftside will fail too? I noticed a lot of black dust in the
right side dustcap, only a small amount of reddish dust in the left one.


Cheers,

Timo
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:32   #5 (permalink)
JD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Rear axle problem

Timo Wildschut wrote:

> JD wrote:
>> Timo Wildschut wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi group,
>>>
>>>2002 Defender 110 TD5
>>>
>>>This is the vehicle from a friend of mine. We were driving it the other
>>>day and had to stop at a railway crossing. Train passes and we continued
>>>our well deserved journey through the german countryside. Halfway the
>>>tracks there was a loud clunck and forward motion stopped. Since there
>>>was a second train approaching we jumped out and started pushing the
>>>car, clearing the tracks just in time. Murphy's law did apply that day.
>>>
>>>So, after some research on the side of the road we came to the
>>>conclusion it must be de rear diff shot or one of the rear driveshafts
>>>broken. With the handbrake applied we have motion on the front axle,
>>>double speed that is :). Drove home with 4x4 locked.
>>>
>>>Before I open up the rear diff, is this a known problem? Can anyone give
>>>me a hint where to look at? Also, are the rear axles fullfloating so I
>>>can remove the driveshafts with ease? I am a moderate DIY mechanic but
>>>have no experience on landrovers whatsoever. (have a 1980 Chevy G30
>>>myself)
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Timo

>>
>>
>> As Beamends says - probable trouble is one of the drive flanges on the
>> outer end of the drive axles is stripped. This seems to be a known
>> problem with TD5 110s - I am not sure that the problem is heat treatment,
>> rather that the changed arrangement of hub seals leaves the splines able
>> to run dry, and when they do, they rapidly wear out, especially in a
>> dusty environment. To replace them you do not even have to jack it up, to
>> check it, just pry the hubcap off. The spline on the axle may or may not
>> be worn enough to need replacement.
>> JD

>
> Thanx for the fast replies all.
>
> I took out the toolkit and did some research. It is indeed one of the
> hub flanges stripped out. The driveshaft itself is stripped aswell. Went
> to local dealer and ordered shaft, flange and seal. Gonna cost ?350,
> ouch. Luckily it's not my car :) Parts will be delivered in a few days.
> This all happened on the right side. Will it be just a matter of time
> before the leftside will fail too? I noticed a lot of black dust in the
> right side dustcap, only a small amount of reddish dust in the left one.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Timo

I think it is likely that the other side will also wear, but regularly
applying a small amount of lubricant will postpone it indefinitely. Also
note that the amount of movement on the splines depends on how much play
there is on the wheel bearings - there should be 0.002" from memory, and
excess play greatly increases movement and hence wear on the spline.
(rotational movement only occurs when going from drive to overrun but
longitudinal movement occurs every turn of the wheel, as the free play on
the bearings allows the wheel to be at a slightly different angle to half
axle)
JD
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:37   #6 (permalink)
Timo Wildschut
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Rear axle problem

JD wrote:

> I think it is likely that the other side will also wear, but regularly
> applying a small amount of lubricant will postpone it indefinitely. Also
> note that the amount of movement on the splines depends on how much play
> there is on the wheel bearings - there should be 0.002" from memory, and
> excess play greatly increases movement and hence wear on the spline.
> (rotational movement only occurs when going from drive to overrun but
> longitudinal movement occurs every turn of the wheel, as the free play on
> the bearings allows the wheel to be at a slightly different angle to half
> axle)
> JD



Got the parts today, whas very easy to install. I pulled the other side
and it looked fine. I gave it a big dap of grease and considered the job
done :)

Thank you all for the info,

Timo
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