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Old 08-14-2005, 17:03   #1 (permalink)
Gerry
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RR P38 Shake



I decided a few weeks ago to replace the worn/soft suspension bush's
So all duly replaced. I used Super Pro polyurethane except the panhard rods
which I used genuine. Leaking shocks were replaced with oil
replacements(Armstrong,
would I have been better off with gas?)

I've had the tracking & all wheels balanced. The whole car now
shakes violently at 60+ mph. Smallest of bumps sets if off.

I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find no play anywhere.
A new steering damper was also tried. As well as adjusting steering box

I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache from swmbo when
she takes it out

The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at 1st them getting
progressively
more violent. It only disappears when speed drops to 40ish

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Gerry.


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Old 08-14-2005, 18:01   #2 (permalink)
Natalie Drest
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Re: RR P38 Shake

How old are the tyres? Much tread left?
Sounds like a suspect balance or oddly worn tyres. Were they rotated during
the balance?


"Gerry" <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> wrote in message
news:42ffd1ad$0$21334$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>
> I decided a few weeks ago to replace the worn/soft suspension bush's
> So all duly replaced. I used Super Pro polyurethane except the panhard

rods
> which I used genuine. Leaking shocks were replaced with oil
> replacements(Armstrong,
> would I have been better off with gas?)
>
> I've had the tracking & all wheels balanced. The whole car now
> shakes violently at 60+ mph. Smallest of bumps sets if off.
>
> I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find no play

anywhere.
> A new steering damper was also tried. As well as adjusting steering box
>
> I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache from swmbo when
> she takes it out
>
> The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at 1st them

getting
> progressively
> more violent. It only disappears when speed drops to 40ish
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Gerry.
>
>



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Old 08-15-2005, 02:01   #3 (permalink)
Derry Argue
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Posts: n/a
Re: RR P38 Shake

"Gerry" <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> wrote in
news:42ffd1ad$0$21334$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:

>
>
> I decided a few weeks ago to replace the worn/soft suspension bush's
> So all duly replaced. I used Super Pro polyurethane except the panhard
> rods which I used genuine. Leaking shocks were replaced with oil
> replacements(Armstrong,
> would I have been better off with gas?)
>
> I've had the tracking & all wheels balanced. The whole car now
> shakes violently at 60+ mph. Smallest of bumps sets if off.
>
> I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find no play
> anywhere. A new steering damper was also tried. As well as adjusting
> steering box
>
> I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache from swmbo
> when she takes it out
>
> The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at 1st them
> getting progressively
> more violent. It only disappears when speed drops to 40ish
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated.
>
> Gerry.
>
>


Probably nothing to do with what you've done. Have you checked the UJ's in
the prop shafts? If the vehicle has been sitting a while and they are dry,
they could have got some rust on them. That was what happened to me. And
the speeds match.

There's a web site somewhere with a check list of things that might cause
vibration in a LR but I'm afraid I've lost the URL. Google might know.

Derry
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Old 08-15-2005, 03:01   #4 (permalink)
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Posts: n/a
Re: RR P38 Shake


"Derry Argue" <home@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns96B35AA3F4078derryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4...
> "Gerry" <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> wrote in
> news:42ffd1ad$0$21334$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>>
>>
>> I decided a few weeks ago to replace the worn/soft suspension bush's
>> So all duly replaced. I used Super Pro polyurethane except the panhard
>> rods which I used genuine. Leaking shocks were replaced with oil
>> replacements(Armstrong,
>> would I have been better off with gas?)
>>
>> I've had the tracking & all wheels balanced. The whole car now
>> shakes violently at 60+ mph. Smallest of bumps sets if off.
>>
>> I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find no play
>> anywhere. A new steering damper was also tried. As well as adjusting
>> steering box
>>
>> I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache from swmbo
>> when she takes it out
>>
>> The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at 1st them
>> getting progressively
>> more violent. It only disappears when speed drops to 40ish
>>
>> Any advice would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Gerry.
>>
>>

>
> Probably nothing to do with what you've done. Have you checked the UJ's in
> the prop shafts? If the vehicle has been sitting a while and they are dry,
> they could have got some rust on them. That was what happened to me. And
> the speeds match.
>
> There's a web site somewhere with a check list of things that might cause
> vibration in a LR but I'm afraid I've lost the URL. Google might know.
>
> Derry


I have had similar problems and tried the same things eventually changing
the discs has got rid of most of the wobble and vibration although there is
still a vagueness to the steering that I would like to clear up !


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Old 08-15-2005, 04:01   #5 (permalink)
Lee_D
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Posts: n/a
Re: RR P38 Shake

<chris@m-gear.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ddpm7n$2bf$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> I have had similar problems and tried the same things eventually changing
> the discs has got rid of most of the wobble and vibration although there
> is still a vagueness to the steering that I would like to clear up !


I've got rid of this one on a Classic shap rangie by adjusting the steering
box. It's now the same feel as our Disco .. felt before like we had too
easier a job of the steering, never out of control , just as though there
were no reistance at all.

Lee D


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Old 08-15-2005, 07:01   #6 (permalink)
AndyC the WB
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Re: RR P38 Shake

>>>>> "Gerry" == Gerry <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> writes:

Gerry> I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find
Gerry> no play anywhere. A new steering damper was also tried. As
Gerry> well as adjusting steering box

Are you sure everything is tightened up after the bushes were
replaced? Wehn you say "adjusting steering box", do you mean
increasing the pre-load. The first time I did this, I didn't get it
tight enough - a small allen key is no good, you need to do it with a
5mm hex drive on a socket.

Gerry> I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache
Gerry> from swmbo when she takes it out

Tell her to drive her own car, then :-)

Gerry> The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at
Gerry> 1st them getting progressively more violent. It only
Gerry> disappears when speed drops to 40ish

Does it start purely on speed, or does it only start when you brake?

It sounds like you've covered the obvious. I notice one poster
suggested looking at the propshaft, which would be my next bet. I'd
also check the diff is running smoothly - wear on the front diff was a
contributory factor to the vibrations I was getting.

Andy




--
Andy Cunningham -- www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk
Every year laws are passed to insure that these same adults survive
to raise another generation with the same characteristics of cluelessness.
-- Paul Tomko
And if the boom-boxes and car stereos weren't so damnably loud, you'd be
able to hear the high-pitched hum: Darwin spinning at 20000 RPM on Timken
roller bearings in a chamber evacuated to 1E-27 Torr.
-- Mike Andrews
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Old 08-15-2005, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
Gerry
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Posts: n/a
Re: RR P38 Shake

Thanks chaps,

Looks like this weekend is going to be busy on the floor again!


"AndyC the WB" <spam@cunningham.me.uk> wrote in message
news:drbr3z1hal.fsf@cunningham.me.uk...
>>>>>> "Gerry" == Gerry <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> writes:

>
> Gerry> I've gone through steering with fine tooth comb & can find
> Gerry> no play anywhere. A new steering damper was also tried. As
> Gerry> well as adjusting steering box
>
> Are you sure everything is tightened up after the bushes were
> replaced? Wehn you say "adjusting steering box", do you mean
> increasing the pre-load. The first time I did this, I didn't get it
> tight enough - a small allen key is no good, you need to do it with a
> 5mm hex drive on a socket.


I'll double check everything is tight, I did torque everthing up as per
service manual
I've only used a 5mm hex key, I'll try giving it a bit more
>
> Gerry> I'm fast running out of idea's As well as getting earache
> Gerry> from swmbo when she takes it out
>
> Tell her to drive her own car, then :-)
>
> Gerry> The oscillation seems to start on front off side, slowly at
> Gerry> 1st them getting progressively more violent. It only
> Gerry> disappears when speed drops to 40ish
>
> Does it start purely on speed, or does it only start when you brake?


It only starts at speed, nothing todo with brakes, disc's were replaced last
year.
A reasonable sized bump sets it off, it gets worse then until you slow down,
(saving a fortune on fuel mind)
>
> It sounds like you've covered the obvious. I notice one poster
> suggested looking at the propshaft, which would be my next bet. I'd
> also check the diff is running smoothly - wear on the front diff was a
> contributory factor to the vibrations I was getting.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Cunningham -- www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk
> Every year laws are passed to insure that these same adults survive
> to raise another generation with the same characteristics of cluelessness.
> -- Paul Tomko
> And if the boom-boxes and car stereos weren't so damnably loud, you'd be
> able to hear the high-pitched hum: Darwin spinning at 20000 RPM on Timken
> roller bearings in a chamber evacuated to 1E-27 Torr.
> -- Mike Andrews



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Old 08-16-2005, 02:01   #8 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Posts: n/a
Re: RR P38 Shake

On or around Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:14:38 +0100, "Gerry"
<gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> enlightened us thusly:

>Thanks chaps,
>
>> Does it start purely on speed, or does it only start when you brake?

>
>It only starts at speed, nothing todo with brakes, disc's were replaced last
>year.
>A reasonable sized bump sets it off, it gets worse then until you slow down,
>(saving a fortune on fuel mind)


'tis a fact that my 110 used to do that with a shagged steering damper, but
you've done that.

You haven't mentioned swivel bearings in all this - I understand that
incorrect swivel preload can cause shakes.

If you had 'em apart in doing the bushes (not that likely) then were they
put back right?

final thought: I assume from the original posting that this problem
happened after you replaced the bushes? If so, possibly one or more bushes
are not right in some way?

Might be worth a check for silly stuff like the tube inside the bush being
the wrong length, or something.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:01   #9 (permalink)
AndyC the WB
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Re: RR P38 Shake

>>>>> "Gerry" == Gerry <gedbishop@REMOVESPAMnetscape.net> writes:

Gerry> It only starts at speed, nothing todo with brakes, disc's
Gerry> were replaced last year. A reasonable sized bump sets it
Gerry> off, it gets worse then until you slow down, (saving a
Gerry> fortune on fuel mind)

The P38A does "dump steer". An acquantaince of me says that this is
due to the differing lengths of the track rod and drag link, and has
modified the geometry to fix this. I haven't had chance to look at
the details of what he's done.

Having said that, I don't think this would fix your underlying
problem; which does sound like the steering could be tighter.

Andy

--
Andy Cunningham -- www.vehicle-diagnostics.co.uk
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply
suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't
need an interpreter.
-- Nick Petreley
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