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Old 09-12-2005, 03:01   #1 (permalink)
'T'
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Safari snorkel Top - which way?

Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
some reason to do it.

(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
it's only fair to let it see where its going...)





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Old 09-12-2005, 03:01   #2 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

In article <dg3ffp$s97$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 'T'
<t@nospam.here> writes
>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>some reason to do it.
>
>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)


Arguably you get less crud into the air filter with it facing backwards.
I can see it causing a low intake pressure at speed, but heck...

My one is a mushroom, but I'm tempted to put a baffle in to achieve the
same effect. I usually pick bits of straw out of the filter around
harvest time, so muck does evidently get drawn in as it is now.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 09-12-2005, 05:01   #3 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:

> In article <dg3ffp$s97$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 'T'
> <t@nospam.here> writes
>>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>>some reason to do it.
>>
>>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)

>
> Arguably you get less crud into the air filter with it facing backwards.
> I can see it causing a low intake pressure at speed, but heck...
>
> My one is a mushroom, but I'm tempted to put a baffle in to achieve the
> same effect. I usually pick bits of straw out of the filter around
> harvest time, so muck does evidently get drawn in as it is now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
>


The snorkel is primarily to get the air intake up above the dust when
operating in very dusty conditions. Assuming you have a diesel engine, the
airflow into it will be such that anything round it will get sucked in
regardless of the direction it is facing, so you might as well have it
facing forward where you will get a slight boost in manifold pressure at
speed rather than a slight reduction - help to make up for the friction
losses of the longer intake and increased aerodynamic drag.
JD
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Old 09-12-2005, 05:01   #4 (permalink)
SpamTrapSeeSig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

In article <432563bc@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, JD <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>
>> In article <dg3ffp$s97$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 'T'
>> <t@nospam.here> writes
>>>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>>>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>>>some reason to do it.
>>>
>>>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>>>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)

>>
>> Arguably you get less crud into the air filter with it facing backwards.
>> I can see it causing a low intake pressure at speed, but heck...
>>
>> My one is a mushroom, but I'm tempted to put a baffle in to achieve the
>> same effect. I usually pick bits of straw out of the filter around
>> harvest time, so muck does evidently get drawn in as it is now.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Simonm.
>>

>
>The snorkel is primarily to get the air intake up above the dust when
>operating in very dusty conditions. Assuming you have a diesel engine, the
>airflow into it will be such that anything round it will get sucked in
>regardless of the direction it is facing, so you might as well have it
>facing forward where you will get a slight boost in manifold pressure at
>speed rather than a slight reduction - help to make up for the friction
>losses of the longer intake and increased aerodynamic drag.


I take your point, especially about boosting the input pressure (and the
downtube isn't that wide - mine looks like a piece of rainwater
downpipe), but if something punctures the filter I think you may have a
bigger problem than low pressure.

Once a decent sized bit of rubbish gets into the pipe it'd be like doing
the Cresta run, and it will hit the filter with some speed. I'd have
thought the snorkel would be worse than an ordinary inlet for that,
partly because the length of pipe would encourage laminar flow and
partly because the smaller diameter would increase the velocity (for a
given volume).

Having said that though, I don't recall dozens of failures through
airborne rubbish getting into the turbo, so perhaps it's moot.


Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
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Old 09-12-2005, 09:01   #5 (permalink)
Neil Brownlee
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

Do some maths regarding the amount of air an engine gulps, and you'll soon
see that it matters not a jot - you can't ram it in quicker... :-)

--
Neil


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Old 09-12-2005, 10:01   #6 (permalink)
MVP
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:48:55 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
<no-one@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <432563bc@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, JD <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> writes
>>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>>
>>> In article <dg3ffp$s97$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 'T'
>>> <t@nospam.here> writes
>>>>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>>>>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>>>>some reason to do it.
>>>>
>>>>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>>>>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)
>>>
>>> Arguably you get less crud into the air filter with it facing backwards.
>>> I can see it causing a low intake pressure at speed, but heck...
>>>
>>> My one is a mushroom, but I'm tempted to put a baffle in to achieve the
>>> same effect. I usually pick bits of straw out of the filter around
>>> harvest time, so muck does evidently get drawn in as it is now.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Simonm.
>>>

>>
>>The snorkel is primarily to get the air intake up above the dust when
>>operating in very dusty conditions. Assuming you have a diesel engine, the
>>airflow into it will be such that anything round it will get sucked in
>>regardless of the direction it is facing, so you might as well have it
>>facing forward where you will get a slight boost in manifold pressure at
>>speed rather than a slight reduction - help to make up for the friction
>>losses of the longer intake and increased aerodynamic drag.

>
>I take your point, especially about boosting the input pressure (and the
>downtube isn't that wide - mine looks like a piece of rainwater
>downpipe), but if something punctures the filter I think you may have a
>bigger problem than low pressure.
>
>Once a decent sized bit of rubbish gets into the pipe it'd be like doing
>the Cresta run, and it will hit the filter with some speed. I'd have
>thought the snorkel would be worse than an ordinary inlet for that,
>partly because the length of pipe would encourage laminar flow and
>partly because the smaller diameter would increase the velocity (for a
>given volume).
>
>Having said that though, I don't recall dozens of failures through
>airborne rubbish getting into the turbo, so perhaps it's moot.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Simonm.



I recall the layout of the air filter and housing on my 110 was such
that anything coming into the filter housing via the intake would hit
the hard plastic before being drawn down through some fins and then
through the metal gauze and filter paper before heading to the engine,
seems unlikely to me that anything could realistically enter the
filter housing fast enough to get through that plastic wossit, and
after hitting that it'd be pretty inert energy-wise I would have
thought.

--
Mark.
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
www.4x4info.info
www.shoot-to-thrill.com



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Old 09-12-2005, 11:01   #7 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

On or around Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:50:02 +0000 (UTC), "'T'" <t@nospam.here>
enlightened us thusly:

>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>some reason to do it.
>
>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)


pointing forwards you get a minor ram-air effect, but you also collect a lot
of dust, rain etc. as you go along. backwards makes that a bit less likely.
Also too much ram-air can upset gas systems on LPG vehicles.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
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Old 09-12-2005, 14:04   #8 (permalink)
Simon Isaacs
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:50:02 +0000 (UTC), "'T'" <t@nospam.here>
scribbled the following nonsense:

>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I see
>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must be
>some reason to do it.
>
>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i reckon
>it's only fair to let it see where its going...)
>
>
>
>


I tend to point it forwards for road use, mainly because on a long run
with the window open, SWMBO gets fed up of the intake noise which is
more pronounced when pointing backwards and towards the window.

Off road I point it backwards, I have seen people hit water too hard
and spalsh water up the windscreen and onto the roof. I figure that
If I do this, pointing backwards it will be less likely to swallow
water.
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Commercial Officer
101 Ambi, undsergoing camper conversion
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....
1979 Range Ruster body shell and chassis
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Old 09-12-2005, 14:04   #9 (permalink)
JD
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:

> In article <432563bc@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, JD <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> writes
>>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>>
>>> In article <dg3ffp$s97$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, 'T'
>>> <t@nospam.here> writes
>>>>Just got a safari snorkel. Fitted wuth the top facing forward. But I
>>>>see
>>>>some people with them fitted with the top facing backwards. Why? Must
>>>>be some reason to do it.
>>>>
>>>>(if you are going to clamp a black swan to your Land Rover wing, i
>>>>reckon it's only fair to let it see where its going...)
>>>
>>> Arguably you get less crud into the air filter with it facing backwards.
>>> I can see it causing a low intake pressure at speed, but heck...
>>>
>>> My one is a mushroom, but I'm tempted to put a baffle in to achieve the
>>> same effect. I usually pick bits of straw out of the filter around
>>> harvest time, so muck does evidently get drawn in as it is now.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Simonm.
>>>

>>
>>The snorkel is primarily to get the air intake up above the dust when
>>operating in very dusty conditions. Assuming you have a diesel engine, the
>>airflow into it will be such that anything round it will get sucked in
>>regardless of the direction it is facing, so you might as well have it
>>facing forward where you will get a slight boost in manifold pressure at
>>speed rather than a slight reduction - help to make up for the friction
>>losses of the longer intake and increased aerodynamic drag.

>
> I take your point, especially about boosting the input pressure (and the
> downtube isn't that wide - mine looks like a piece of rainwater
> downpipe), but if something punctures the filter I think you may have a
> bigger problem than low pressure.
>
> Once a decent sized bit of rubbish gets into the pipe it'd be like doing
> the Cresta run, and it will hit the filter with some speed. I'd have
> thought the snorkel would be worse than an ordinary inlet for that,
> partly because the length of pipe would encourage laminar flow and
> partly because the smaller diameter would increase the velocity (for a
> given volume).
>
> Having said that though, I don't recall dozens of failures through
> airborne rubbish getting into the turbo, so perhaps it's moot.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
>


The aircleaner is designed so as not to be likely to be damaged by this sort
of thing. Actually airflow through the snorkel is likely to be pretty
turbulent, although the velocity will, as you say, be pretty high.
The pressure loss due to the snorkel will, in fact be greater than any
possible gain from facing forward, pointing out that unless you operate in
a very dusty area, or engage in deep wading (and for this a snorkel is only
one of the required items), there is no reason for using a snorkel. As a
fashion accessory they are relatively harmless, but will result in a very
minor loss of power.
JD
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Old 09-12-2005, 14:04   #10 (permalink)
Richard Brookman
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Posts: n/a
Re: Safari snorkel Top - which way?

so JD was, like...
> > The pressure loss due to the snorkel will, in fact be greater than any

> possible gain from facing forward, pointing out that unless you
> operate in a very dusty area, or engage in deep wading (and for this
> a snorkel is only one of the required items), there is no reason for
> using a snorkel. As a fashion accessory they are relatively harmless,
> but will result in a very minor loss of power.
> JD


ISTR a post from Pantelis a while back that said he had noticed a
considerable improvement in performance with a snorkel fitted. Pantelis?
You there?

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


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