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Old 06-14-2005, 00:35   #1 (permalink)
Peter
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Satellite spy in every vehicle

It's no good just denying it will ever happen.
If Tim keeps saying it won't or can't, he may be right but he more than
likely will be wrong.
GPS is already two way as we use it on marine position finders to add
pinpoint accuracy. It's called SdGPS (Satellite Differential GPS).
The technology is already there and some is already in use.
It's too simplistic to say that the system can easily be jammed. If it's not
receiving a signal the car won't start!
The only way round it is to go outlaw. With no tax, insurance, MOT or GPS
spy in the car.
It's probably the easiest solution. Seems to work well for our foreign
friends who kill pedestrians and then get off with a fine for dangerous
driving.
Peter


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:35   #2 (permalink)
Dave Liquorice
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:53:26 +0100, Peter wrote:

> GPS is already two way as we use it on marine position finders to
> add pinpoint accuracy. It's called SdGPS (Satellite Differential
> GPS).


AIUI, differential GPS is not two way in that there is an out going
link from the receiver to elsewhere. What it does is utilises another,
terrestial based, signal from a transmitter whose location is known
very accurately. A differential GPS Rx then uses that signal with the
ordinary GPS one to correct the inherent GPS errors.

> If it's not receiving a signal the car won't start!


So what do you do if you park under trees or in a garage?

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Cheers new5pam@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:35   #3 (permalink)
Larry
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

Oh honestly do you really think that you would not be able to get round that
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't think how you could wire something like that with a foolproof
immobiliser in a vintage landie, besides there would be safety issues, what
happens inside a tunnell, a garage, a multi storey carpark where you cannot
get a satellite signal.

I daresay there are several steep valleys where you cannot either.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Peter" <peterf.zipcaplen@homecall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42a9d38a_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> It's no good just denying it will ever happen.
> If Tim keeps saying it won't or can't, he may be right but he more than
> likely will be wrong.
> GPS is already two way as we use it on marine position finders to add
> pinpoint accuracy. It's called SdGPS (Satellite Differential GPS).
> The technology is already there and some is already in use.
> It's too simplistic to say that the system can easily be jammed. If it's

not
> receiving a signal the car won't start!
> The only way round it is to go outlaw. With no tax, insurance, MOT or GPS
> spy in the car.
> It's probably the easiest solution. Seems to work well for our foreign
> friends who kill pedestrians and then get off with a fine for dangerous
> driving.
> Peter
>
>



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:35   #4 (permalink)
Mother
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:53:26 +0100, "Peter"
<peterf.zipcaplen@homecall.co.uk> wrote:

>It's no good just denying it will ever happen.


[snip rest of paranoid rhetoric]

Not really worth a reply, but here goes...

You're talking bollocks.

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Old 06-14-2005, 00:35   #5 (permalink)
Ian Rawlings
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

On 2005-06-10, Peter <peterf.zipcaplen@homecall.co.uk> wrote:

> It's no good just denying it will ever happen.


We're talking about our world, not pixie-land.

> If Tim keeps saying it won't or can't, he may be right but he more than
> likely will be wrong.


You on the other hand, are far more accurate; you're entirely wrong,
which beats Tim's "maybe wrong" any day.

> GPS is already two way as we use it on marine position finders to
> add pinpoint accuracy. It's called SdGPS (Satellite Differential
> GPS).


.... which works by RECEIVING a signal from a beacon with a known
position and using that to bring the accuracy up from about 10 metres
to about 5 metres, with WAAS it can be 3 metres. But this is in open
space, you need three or four widely spaced satellites to achieve
that, in a city errors are much higher because the only satellites you
can see are likely to be close together.

If you had any idea about how radio works you'd realise that millions
of cars transmitting to satellites would all require their own
frequency or would require precise multiplexing syncronised to
picosecond accuracy across thousands of cars. This would eat up the
radio spectrum in no time. As I said in a previous post, if they want
to transmit anything they'd more likely use mobile networks or pager
networks which work on a cellular basis avoiding the frequency
spectrum problem.

I expect that if you want to stick to your two-way satellite theory
you'll probably point to two-way satellite internet or phones to
support your idea, however these use aerials positioned to point to a
specific satellite allowing the same frequency to be used on others,
this isn't possible with a moving car without gyroscopically
stabilised radomes on top of the car, which I think we'd notice. Even
if we didn't notice a 12-inch dome on the tops of our cars, this
method still wouldn't allow millions of cars to be tracked as it still
wouldn't reduce the need for frequencies down to a manageable level.

> The technology is already there and some is already in use.


Maybe, but not using the technology you think. If you go to Northern
Ireland you'll find that GPRS is extremely fast and reliable and
mobile phone signals are surprisingly good. There was a huge
investment programme in communications systems in NI to aid in setting
up remote cameras and number plate tracking systems to help hunt down
wanted people. They don't use two-way satellite traffic.

> It's too simplistic to say that the system can easily be jammed. If
> it's not receiving a signal the car won't start!


You're making this up on the hoof, and not very well.

> The only way round it is to go outlaw. With no tax, insurance, MOT
> or GPS spy in the car.


Or walk. Or wear a tin hat and lead underpants.

> It's probably the easiest solution. Seems to work well for our foreign
> friends who kill pedestrians and then get off with a fine for dangerous
> driving.


Oooooh those nnnnnnnaughty foreigners!

> Peter


Peter is slang for 'penis', I sense a conspiracy here!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:36   #6 (permalink)
steve Taylor
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

Ian Rawlings wrote:

>>GPS is already two way as we use it on marine position finders to
>>add pinpoint accuracy. It's called SdGPS (Satellite Differential
>>GPS).

>
>
> ... which works by RECEIVING a signal from a beacon with a known
> position and using that to bring the accuracy up from about 10 metres
> to about 5 metres, with WAAS it can be 3 metres.


DGPS is good to a hell of a lot better than 3 metres,like sub 1cm
But you have to be patient - 45 minutes per datum !
Steve
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:36   #7 (permalink)
Nigel Hewitt
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

steve Taylor wrote:

> DGPS is good to a hell of a lot better than 3 metres, like sub 1cm
> But you have to be patient - 45 minutes per datum !


Didn't this become irrelevant when 'Selective Availability' was turned off?
The signal is now more accurate than most receivers? We all get the
military grade signal until they decide to turn it off again.

(There was a story that it was switched off to stop people trying
to hack the mil-grade signal as some of the gps-encryption forum
posts were getting close...)

nigelH



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:37   #8 (permalink)
Paul Brown
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

Nigel Hewitt wrote:

> steve Taylor wrote:
>
>> DGPS is good to a hell of a lot better than 3 metres, like sub 1cm
>> But you have to be patient - 45 minutes per datum !

>
> Didn't this become irrelevant when 'Selective Availability' was turned
> off? The signal is now more accurate than most receivers? We all get the
> military grade signal until they decide to turn it off again.
>
> (There was a story that it was switched off to stop people trying
> to hack the mil-grade signal as some of the gps-encryption forum
> posts were getting close...)
>


You still get a little variance from the orbital variations of the
satellites - not much, but DGPS allows it to be more or less eliminated,
after all, buildings don't often move much relative to the country they're
built in.

P.
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:37   #9 (permalink)
steve Taylor
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

Nigel Hewitt wrote:
> steve Taylor wrote:
>
>
>>DGPS is good to a hell of a lot better than 3 metres, like sub 1cm
>>But you have to be patient - 45 minutes per datum !

>
>
> Didn't this become irrelevant when 'Selective Availability' was turned off?
> The signal is now more accurate than most receivers? We all get the
> military grade signal until they decide to turn it off again.


I don't think so, there is an intrinsic uncertainty, which only dgps can
resolve. Take a look at DGPS on the Trimble website.

Steve
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:37   #10 (permalink)
Ian Rawlings
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Re: Satellite spy in every vehicle

On 2005-06-12, steve Taylor <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:

> DGPS is good to a hell of a lot better than 3 metres,like sub 1cm
> But you have to be patient - 45 minutes per datum !


Yep I know, but it's about 3 metres or when you're moving, which was
what I meant. Surveyors use differential GPS on building sites, so
it's certainly good enough, unless of course your building site
happens to be moving!

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