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Old 11-21-2005, 03:01   #1 (permalink)
Jon
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Posts: n/a
Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

Hi all,

For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
starting problem.

When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
engine doesnt turn over.

Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
drive away.

Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.

It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.

Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
flywheel???

I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.

Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??

Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?

Thanks
Jon

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Old 11-21-2005, 03:01   #2 (permalink)
EMB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

Jon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> starting problem.
>
> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> engine doesnt turn over.
>


The one-way clutch in the pinion is faulty. New one-way clutch/pinion
required.

--
EMB
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2005, 03:01   #3 (permalink)
beamendsltd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> starting problem.
>
> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> engine doesnt turn over.
>
> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> drive away.
>
> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>
> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>
> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> flywheel???
>
> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>
> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>
> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>
> Thanks
> Jon
>


Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
dog. A new starter is:

ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT

but...

you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:

For Valeo starters:

RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc

For Bosch:
STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
26.79 inc VAT
or
STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT

I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
language is a prerequisite.

Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:01   #4 (permalink)
Jon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:27:03 +1300, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jon wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> starting problem.
>>
>> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> engine doesnt turn over.
>>

>
>The one-way clutch in the pinion is faulty. New one-way clutch/pinion
>required.


EMB, thanks. Is the One-way clutch the same as the solenoid that
Richard talks about in his reply?

Jon
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2005, 03:01   #5 (permalink)
beamendsltd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

In message <eec43ccd4d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>
beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

> In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
> Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> > starting problem.
> >
> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> > engine doesnt turn over.
> >
> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> > drive away.
> >
> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >
> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >
> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> > flywheel???
> >
> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >
> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >
> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jon
> >

>
> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> dog. A new starter is:
>
> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
>
> but...
>
> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>
> For Valeo starters:
>
> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
>
> For Bosch:
> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> 26.79 inc VAT
> or
> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
>
> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> language is a prerequisite.
>
> Richard
>
>


oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
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Old 11-21-2005, 04:01   #6 (permalink)
Jon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

>In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
> Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> starting problem.
>>
>> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> engine doesnt turn over.
>>
>> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> drive away.
>>
>> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>>
>> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>>
>> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> flywheel???
>>
>> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>>
>> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>>
>> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jon
>>

>
>Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>dog. A new starter is:
>
>ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
>
>but...
>
>you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>
>For Valeo starters:
>
>RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
>
>For Bosch:
>STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> 26.79 inc VAT
>or
>STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
>
>I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>language is a prerequisite.
>
>Richard



Richard,
Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
the space available?

Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?

Thanks
Jon
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Old 11-21-2005, 04:01   #7 (permalink)
Jon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:01:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

>In message <eec43ccd4d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>
> beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>> In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
>> Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> > starting problem.
>> >
>> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> > engine doesnt turn over.
>> >
>> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> > drive away.
>> >
>> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>> >
>> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>> >
>> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> > flywheel???
>> >
>> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>> >
>> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>> >
>> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Jon
>> >

>>
>> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>> dog. A new starter is:
>>
>> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
>>
>> but...
>>
>> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>>
>> For Valeo starters:
>>
>> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
>>
>> For Bosch:
>> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>> 26.79 inc VAT
>> or
>> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
>>
>> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>> language is a prerequisite.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>

>
>oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......


Does this mean that access is possible but you cant see what your
aiming at or they arent accessible from above??

Jon

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Old 11-21-2005, 04:01   #8 (permalink)
beamendsltd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

In message <4ja3o19rqn7mk2bbe9pfo7l4up99mnvh9m@4ax.com>
Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:01:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> >In message <eec43ccd4d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>
> > beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
> >> Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> >> > starting problem.
> >> >
> >> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> >> > engine doesnt turn over.
> >> >
> >> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> >> > drive away.
> >> >
> >> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> >> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >> >
> >> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >> >
> >> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> >> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> >> > flywheel???
> >> >
> >> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> >> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >> >
> >> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> >> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >> >
> >> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> >> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Jon
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> >> dog. A new starter is:
> >>
> >> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
> >>
> >> but...
> >>
> >> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
> >>
> >> For Valeo starters:
> >>
> >> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
> >>
> >> For Bosch:
> >> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> >> 26.79 inc VAT
> >> or
> >> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> >> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
> >>
> >> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> >> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> >> language is a prerequisite.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>

> >
> >oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......

>
> Does this mean that access is possible but you cant see what your
> aiming at or they arent accessible from above??
>
> Jon
>


It's the former - you have to do at least one by feel.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2005, 04:01   #9 (permalink)
beamendsltd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

In message <a5a3o1pj9tdoacc6maqais3ags8m9vmi6o@4ax.com>
Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> >In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
> > Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> >> starting problem.
> >>
> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> >> engine doesnt turn over.
> >>
> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> >> drive away.
> >>
> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >>
> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >>
> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> >> flywheel???
> >>
> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >>
> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >>
> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Jon
> >>

> >
> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> >dog. A new starter is:
> >
> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
> >
> >but...
> >
> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
> >
> >For Valeo starters:
> >
> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
> >
> >For Bosch:
> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> > 26.79 inc VAT
> >or
> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
> >
> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> >language is a prerequisite.
> >
> >Richard

>
>
> Richard,
> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
> the space available?
>


Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
the down pipe may make things easier.

> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>


They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.

> Thanks
> Jon


Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2005, 04:01   #10 (permalink)
Jon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:25:08 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

>In message <a5a3o1pj9tdoacc6maqais3ags8m9vmi6o@4ax.com>
> Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In message <nv63o1d1rm5246269236qnt4e5l4guo8c1@4ax.com>
>> > Jon <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> >> starting problem.
>> >>
>> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> >> engine doesnt turn over.
>> >>
>> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> >> drive away.
>> >>
>> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>> >>
>> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>> >>
>> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> >> flywheel???
>> >>
>> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>> >>
>> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>> >>
>> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Jon
>> >>
>> >
>> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>> >dog. A new starter is:
>> >
>> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type 91.65 inc VAT
>> >
>> >but...
>> >
>> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>> >
>> >For Valeo starters:
>> >
>> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 34.07 inc
>> >
>> >For Bosch:
>> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>> > 26.79 inc VAT
>> >or
>> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi 44.53 inc VAT
>> >
>> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>> >language is a prerequisite.
>> >
>> >Richard

>>
>>
>> Richard,
>> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
>> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
>> the space available?
>>

>
>Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
>the down pipe may make things easier.
>
>> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
>> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>>

>
>They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
>case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
>still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
>shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.
>

Cool. I'll set about it one night this week and let you know how i
get on / whatever I need.


>> Thanks
>> Jon

>
>Richard


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