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Old 12-15-2005, 09:01   #1 (permalink)
Steve Taylor
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STEAM engined Landy ???

Here is a neat story - a hybrid STEAM and (presumably) petrol OR diesel
engine - for BMWs

http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/4936/

Hmm.

Steve
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:01   #2 (permalink)
JD
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

Steve Taylor wrote:

> Here is a neat story - a hybrid STEAM and (presumably) petrol OR diesel
> engine - for BMWs
>
> http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/4936/
>
> Hmm.
>
> Steve


The general idea is not new. When diesel engines were first being introduced
in ships in the early years of last century it was not uncommon to have the
exhaust used for steam raising, usually for running auxilliaries, but at
least one engine had diesel combustion above the pistons with steam (raised
from the exhaust) below the pistons, the steam finally going to a turbine
geared to the prop shaft and thence to the condenser, with the input
pressure to the turbine actually being what would by most standards be a
respectable vacuum. Presumably the idea was scrapped due to complexity and
cheap fuel, and has not (as far as I know) been revived because modern
marine diesels extract most of the exhaust energy using turbochargers.

Which raises the question - would it not be simpler to extract most of the
energy from the exhaust using gas turbine(s), gearing these to the output
shaft rather than going to the complexity of raising steam? This
technology, known as turbo-compounding was used in the last generation of
aeroplane piston engines in the 1940s &50s.
JD
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Old 12-15-2005, 13:01   #3 (permalink)
Steve Taylor
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

JD wrote:

> Which raises the question - would it not be simpler to extract most of the
> energy from the exhaust using gas turbine(s), gearing these to the output
> shaft rather than going to the complexity of raising steam? This
> technology, known as turbo-compounding was used in the last generation of
> aeroplane piston engines in the 1940s &50s.
> JD


Interesting point. Maybe they think that production engineering a
100,000 RPM reduction box might be a bit expensive ?

Steve
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Old 12-15-2005, 13:01   #4 (permalink)
JD
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

Steve Taylor wrote:

> JD wrote:
>
>> Which raises the question - would it not be simpler to extract most of
>> the energy from the exhaust using gas turbine(s), gearing these to the
>> output
>> shaft rather than going to the complexity of raising steam? This
>> technology, known as turbo-compounding was used in the last generation of
>> aeroplane piston engines in the 1940s &50s.
>> JD

>
> Interesting point. Maybe they think that production engineering a
> 100,000 RPM reduction box might be a bit expensive ?
>
> Steve


Probably would be, but so would an automated steam system (which raises the
question - would the driver need a boiler attendant's certificate?), and
the steam turbine probably runs at much the same speed as the gas turbine,
only thing is temperatures are cooler.
JD
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Old 12-15-2005, 17:01   #5 (permalink)
Larry
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

Well rover did indeed develop a gas turbine engined sports car, I think the
difficulty was with the fact that it ran so hot.

Similarly a problem with the steam cars was that they eventually required so
much cooling for the condenser that they could not achieve the efficiency of
an internal combustion engine for the same output


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message
news:43a1c213@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Steve Taylor wrote:
>
> The general idea is not new. When diesel engines were first being

introduced
> in ships in the early years of last century it was not uncommon to have

the
> exhaust used for steam raising, usually for running auxilliaries, but at
> least one engine had diesel combustion above the pistons with steam

(raised
> from the exhaust) below the pistons, the steam finally going to a turbine
> geared to the prop shaft and thence to the condenser, with the input
> pressure to the turbine actually being what would by most standards be a
> respectable vacuum. Presumably the idea was scrapped due to complexity and
> cheap fuel, and has not (as far as I know) been revived because modern
> marine diesels extract most of the exhaust energy using turbochargers.
>
> Which raises the question - would it not be simpler to extract most of the
> energy from the exhaust using gas turbine(s), gearing these to the output
> shaft rather than going to the complexity of raising steam? This
> technology, known as turbo-compounding was used in the last generation of
> aeroplane piston engines in the 1940s &50s.
> JD



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Old 12-15-2005, 18:01   #6 (permalink)
willie@macleod-group.com
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

Larry wrote:

> Well rover did indeed develop a gas turbine engined sports car, I think the
> difficulty was with the fact that it ran so hot.
>
> Similarly a problem with the steam cars was that they eventually required so
> much cooling for the condenser that they could not achieve the efficiency of
> an internal combustion engine for the same output


There's at least one steam powered Series (II I think) chugging away
slowly in Switzerland, runs on little chunks of wood. Not very fast,
but great if you keep an axe handy and drive mostly in wooded areas
with lots of streams. Nasty tax man doesn't get a look in.

For those of you interested in seeing how much extra weight you can add
to your 2 1/4 petrol Series vehicles and how you can "upgrade" your
engine to run on stuff like wood, head to one of my favourite sites on
the net:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/producer/index.html

No responsibility taken for any wasted hours browsing Lindsay books
site! enjoy!

Regards

William MacLeod

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Old 12-16-2005, 02:01   #7 (permalink)
Tom Woods
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

On 15 Dec 2005 17:09:39 -0800, "willie@macleod-group.com"
<willie@macleod-group.com> wrote:

>http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/producer/index.html
>
>No responsibility taken for any wasted hours browsing Lindsay books
>site! enjoy!


I'm still going to blame you for the time ive wasted looking at their
books! :p. Might buy myself some christmas pressies

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Old 12-16-2005, 07:01   #8 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

On or around Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:38:30 +0000, Tom Woods
<tomarse_@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:

>On 15 Dec 2005 17:09:39 -0800, "willie@macleod-group.com"
><willie@macleod-group.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/producer/index.html
>>
>>No responsibility taken for any wasted hours browsing Lindsay books
>>site! enjoy!

>
>I'm still going to blame you for the time ive wasted looking at their
>books! :p. Might buy myself some christmas pressies


You won't want to be looking at www.bookfinder.com then...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
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Old 12-16-2005, 16:01   #9 (permalink)
SimonJ
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

>
> Which raises the question - would it not be simpler to extract most of the
> energy from the exhaust using gas turbine(s), gearing these to the output
> shaft rather than going to the complexity of raising steam? This
> technology, known as turbo-compounding was used in the last generation of
> aeroplane piston engines in the 1940s &50s.
> JD
>

Scania has at least one truck engine in regular production which uses turbo
compounding, so the technology is definitely there to do it.


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Old 12-16-2005, 16:01   #10 (permalink)
Lee_D
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Re: STEAM engined Landy ???

Tom Woods <tomarse_@hotmail.com> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

> I'm still going to blame you for the time ive wasted looking at their
> books! :p. Might buy myself some christmas pressies


Nay mind books! get yer self some thermal overalls and get that 101 sorted,
tis nearly silly season again :-)

Lee D


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