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Old 05-02-2005, 05:01   #1 (permalink)
Olly R
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V8 questions

Hello all, and happy bank holiday monday.

Until a year or so ago, I drove a Stage One V8 109 (on LPG) that I loved to
bits, but had to sell it. I'm soon going to be in the market for a
replacement Land Rover (hooray!) and whilst my head tells me that I should
really be looking for a sensible Tdi-engined vehicle, I'm not sure that I'll
be able to resist the lure of the V8.

Having had some not terribly good experiences with a carbed 3.5 on LPG
(maybe I was unlucky), I was wondering about the injected V8s. So the
questions are

Is the 3.9 V8i a much better engine?
Does is get usefully better mpg?
Are there issues with running the injected engine mostly on LPG?
If I bought a landy with a different engine, with a view to replacing that
engine with a V8, are there any particularly suitable/unsuitable donor
vehicles? I'm really after a LWB station wagon.
Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter, and therefore a closed-loop
gas system, all of which is more expensive to install?
So maybe if all this will cost loads, is it on balance best to stick with
carbs, and hope I get a good 'un?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

Cheers

olly R


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Old 05-02-2005, 05:01   #2 (permalink)
Richard Brookman
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Re: V8 questions

Olly R wrote:
>
> Is the 3.9 V8i a much better engine?


So they say - injection better than carbs for general ease of use and
reliability, more power compared to standard carb setup, should stay in tune
better. Downside is that if it goes wrong you have an ECU to replace or
bodge.

> Does is get usefully better mpg?


Figures for the RRC suggest 16mpg for 3.5 carbs against 17mpg for 3.9 V8i,
so not a great deal in it, but perhaps it could be regarded as "useful".

> Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter, and therefore a
> closed-loop gas system, all of which is more expensive to install?


No knowledge of LPG, but if you're running it on unleaded the cats issue
depends on the date of manufacture. Key date is around 1992/1993 in the UK.
Before this, the emissions limits were higher and a good engine would get
away without the cats. After this date, the limits were drastically reduced
and you are unlikely to be able to do without. Some workarounds, to do with
the purpose of vehicle and GVW - you might be able to persuade a tester that
the newer limits don't apply to your vehicle. This has been discussed
several times,with no definitive answer emerging. Suggest you Google it.

> So maybe if all this will cost loads, is it on balance best to stick
> with carbs, and hope I get a good 'un?


On balance, 3.9 every time. Lovely engine.

HTH

--
Rich
==============================
RR 4.6HSE (up for sale)
S2a SWB (not for sale)
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #3 (permalink)
MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions

On Mon, 2 May 2005 10:38:51 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Brookman"
<newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Olly R wrote:
>>
>> Is the 3.9 V8i a much better engine?

>
>So they say - injection better than carbs for general ease of use and
>reliability, more power compared to standard carb setup, should stay in tune
>better. Downside is that if it goes wrong you have an ECU to replace or
>bodge.
>
>> Does is get usefully better mpg?

>
>Figures for the RRC suggest 16mpg for 3.5 carbs against 17mpg for 3.9 V8i,
>so not a great deal in it, but perhaps it could be regarded as "useful".
>
>> Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter, and therefore a
>> closed-loop gas system, all of which is more expensive to install?

>
>No knowledge of LPG, but if you're running it on unleaded the cats issue
>depends on the date of manufacture. Key date is around 1992/1993 in the UK.
>Before this, the emissions limits were higher and a good engine would get
>away without the cats. After this date, the limits were drastically reduced
>and you are unlikely to be able to do without. Some workarounds, to do with
>the purpose of vehicle and GVW - you might be able to persuade a tester that
>the newer limits don't apply to your vehicle. This has been discussed
>several times,with no definitive answer emerging. Suggest you Google it.
>
>> So maybe if all this will cost loads, is it on balance best to stick
>> with carbs, and hope I get a good 'un?

>
>On balance, 3.9 every time. Lovely engine.
>
>HTH


After much thought, advice and poking around the great
interwebnet-thingy I've settled on (and hope to soon buy) a 3.9
injection LPG'd Land Rover.
I've always been a big fan of diesels (with the exception of the wifes
saab I've not had a petrol vehicle in years) and the faf of carbs make
sme nervous. but a 3.9 V8 is my choice, I'm wary of the electronics
but willing to have a go with this one.

Research and advice suggests that the 3.9 is indeed, a good-un.


Regards.
Mark.
--
_________________________________________
1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D - leaving soon
3.9 V8i LPG auto Disco - coming soon
www.4x4info.info
www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
charity calendar project -
http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
_________________________________________



.................................................................
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #4 (permalink)
Olly R
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Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions


"Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d54vvr$2an$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> injection better than carbs for general ease of use and
> reliability, more power compared to standard carb setup, should stay in

tune
> better. Downside is that if it goes wrong you have an ECU to replace or
> bodge.


Yes, and also more electrics to worry about if installing a V8i into a
previously-not-V8i-landy.

> > Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter,


> This has been discussed
> several times,with no definitive answer emerging. Suggest you Google it.


Will do.

> On balance, 3.9 every time. Lovely engine.
>
> HTH


It does indeed - thanks Richard.

olly R


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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #5 (permalink)
Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions


"Olly R" <oliver.rundell@webtribe.net> wrote in message
news:d54ukv$12u$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hello all, and happy bank holiday monday.
>
> Until a year or so ago, I drove a Stage One V8 109 (on LPG) that I loved
> to
> bits, but had to sell it. I'm soon going to be in the market for a
> replacement Land Rover (hooray!) and whilst my head tells me that I should
> really be looking for a sensible Tdi-engined vehicle, I'm not sure that
> I'll
> be able to resist the lure of the V8.
>
> Having had some not terribly good experiences with a carbed 3.5 on LPG
> (maybe I was unlucky), I was wondering about the injected V8s. So the
> questions are
>
> Is the 3.9 V8i a much better engine?


The basic engine is the same, just a larger bore, it's the EFI system that
makes it so much nicer.

> Does is get usefully better mpg?


About 1 or 2mpg.

> Are there issues with running the injected engine mostly on LPG?


Nope, none at all. Just don't adjust the timing too far advanced, I've
replaced 2 sets of pistons recently that have been destroyed by knock. (Ring
lands collapsed!)

> If I bought a landy with a different engine, with a view to replacing that
> engine with a V8, are there any particularly suitable/unsuitable donor
> vehicles? I'm really after a LWB station wagon.


It's a lot less heartache to get a V8 model with a clapped engine then fit a
decent 3.9 and convert the vehicle to EFI (Fuel pump, fuel lines, wiring
pickup points)

> Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter, and therefore a
> closed-loop
> gas system, all of which is more expensive to install?


Doesn't need cats if pre-92 (I think?) and it won't need them for an MOT
anyway if it's running on gas. Construction and use regs will probably say
you should have them, but I wouldn't worry about that myself.
Something else to consider, from the mot manual I believe, "if the engine
has been replaced, the emissions test applicable is for the engine's age,
not the vehicle's, unless the engine is newer in which case it is by the
vehicle age". In other words, if you rebuild and fit a 1991 3.9 to a 2001
defender, no cats required and no cat emissions test - even on petrol! All
you need to be able to do is provide some sort of evidence of the true age
of the replacement engine, easily done from the engine number.

> So maybe if all this will cost loads, is it on balance best to stick with
> carbs, and hope I get a good 'un?


EFI is a lot smoother, better emissions, and has an easier and smoother
changeover from petrol to gas and back to petrol.

> Any thoughts would be gratefully received.


Go for it, you know you want that burble!!!

--
Badger.
B.H.Engineering,
Rover V8 engine specialists.
www.bhengineering.co.uk
www.roverv8engines.com


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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #6 (permalink)
Olly R
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions


"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:ih1c71pin378kleifthlukgnkim1hqqd4c@4ax.com...

> After much thought, advice and poking around the great
> interwebnet-thingy I've settled on (and hope to soon buy) a 3.9
> injection LPG'd Land Rover.
> I've always been a big fan of diesels (with the exception of the wifes
> saab I've not had a petrol vehicle in years) and the faf of carbs make
> sme nervous. but a 3.9 V8 is my choice, I'm wary of the electronics
> but willing to have a go with this one.


Yes, I'd been reading your threads before.
I don't want a disco though, so am interested to hear people's thoughts
about putting a V8i into a 110 or Defender 110.

> Research and advice suggests that the 3.9 is indeed, a good-un.


Yes, a colleague of mine has just bought an H-reg RR with this engine on
LPG, and it is fabulous.

Thanks Mark.

olly R


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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #7 (permalink)
MVP
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions

On Mon, 2 May 2005 11:04:47 +0000 (UTC), "Olly R"
<oliver.rundell@webtribe.net> wrote:

>
>"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
>news:ih1c71pin378kleifthlukgnkim1hqqd4c@4ax.com...
>
>> After much thought, advice and poking around the great
>> interwebnet-thingy I've settled on (and hope to soon buy) a 3.9
>> injection LPG'd Land Rover.
>> I've always been a big fan of diesels (with the exception of the wifes
>> saab I've not had a petrol vehicle in years) and the faf of carbs make
>> sme nervous. but a 3.9 V8 is my choice, I'm wary of the electronics
>> but willing to have a go with this one.

>
>Yes, I'd been reading your threads before.
>I don't want a disco though, so am interested to hear people's thoughts
>about putting a V8i into a 110 or Defender 110.
>
>> Research and advice suggests that the 3.9 is indeed, a good-un.

>
>Yes, a colleague of mine has just bought an H-reg RR with this engine on
>LPG, and it is fabulous.
>
>Thanks Mark.
>
>olly R
>


I did consider a V8 in my current 110 but there are some mechanical
differences between mine and one built for a V8 so I then considered
looking for a V8 110 of similar vintage (there are a few around) with
a knackered engine and putting a 3.9V8 into it, problems being the
transplant of the electronics, but do-able.


Regards.
Mark.
--
_________________________________________
1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D - leaving soon
3.9 V8i LPG auto Disco - coming soon
www.4x4info.info
www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
charity calendar project -
http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
_________________________________________



.................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #8 (permalink)
hugh
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions

In message <ih1c71pin378kleifthlukgnkim1hqqd4c@4ax.com>, MVP
<mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> writes
>On Mon, 2 May 2005 10:38:51 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Brookman"
><newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>Olly R wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the 3.9 V8i a much better engine?

>>
>>So they say - injection better than carbs for general ease of use and
>>reliability, more power compared to standard carb setup, should stay in tune
>>better. Downside is that if it goes wrong you have an ECU to replace or
>>bodge.
>>
>>> Does is get usefully better mpg?

>>
>>Figures for the RRC suggest 16mpg for 3.5 carbs against 17mpg for 3.9 V8i,
>>so not a great deal in it, but perhaps it could be regarded as "useful".
>>
>>> Presumably the 3.9 needs a catalytic converter, and therefore a
>>> closed-loop gas system, all of which is more expensive to install?

>>
>>No knowledge of LPG, but if you're running it on unleaded the cats issue
>>depends on the date of manufacture. Key date is around 1992/1993 in the UK.
>>Before this, the emissions limits were higher and a good engine would get
>>away without the cats. After this date, the limits were drastically reduced
>>and you are unlikely to be able to do without. Some workarounds, to do with
>>the purpose of vehicle and GVW - you might be able to persuade a tester that
>>the newer limits don't apply to your vehicle. This has been discussed
>>several times,with no definitive answer emerging. Suggest you Google it.
>>
>>> So maybe if all this will cost loads, is it on balance best to stick
>>> with carbs, and hope I get a good 'un?

>>
>>On balance, 3.9 every time. Lovely engine.
>>
>>HTH

>
>After much thought, advice and poking around the great
>interwebnet-thingy I've settled on (and hope to soon buy) a 3.9
>injection LPG'd Land Rover.
>I've always been a big fan of diesels (with the exception of the wifes
>saab I've not had a petrol vehicle in years) and the faf of carbs make
>sme nervous. but a 3.9 V8 is my choice, I'm wary of the electronics
>but willing to have a go with this one.
>
>Research and advice suggests that the 3.9 is indeed, a good-un.
>
>
>Regards.
>Mark.

If you are buying one already converted check out the LPG side
thoroughly. It can be more hassle and almost as expensive to sort out a
dodgy installation than to convert from new. Also look for a conversion
certificate and check with your insurance company as to whether they
will require an LPGA one - some do.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #9 (permalink)
Olly R
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Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions


"Badger" <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote in message
news:d551fm$6a3$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> Go for it, you know you want that burble!!!


Thanks for your thoughts!
Now just supposing I found a suitable vehicle, roughly how much do you
suppose someone might charge to put a 3.9 in, all things being equal?
(I live in Scotland. Can you see where this might just possibly be
leading....?)

olly R


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Old 05-02-2005, 06:01   #10 (permalink)
Olly R
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: V8 questions


"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:RbDS9mEYrgdCFAJ+@raefell.demon.co.uk...

> If you are buying one already converted check out the LPG side
> thoroughly. It can be more hassle and almost as expensive to sort out a
> dodgy installation than to convert from new. Also look for a conversion
> certificate and check with your insurance company as to whether they
> will require an LPGA one - some do.


Thanks Hugh, my 109 ran on LPG, with quite a dodgy conversion,
unidentifiable components, tank put in the wrong way up, wrong hoses and
things, and I did have to pay quite a bit to get it sorted for when I needed
a LPGA certificate. And after all that, it still never really ran properly!

olly R


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