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Old 01-10-2006, 04:01   #1 (permalink)
Bob
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Wandering RRC

Hi Guys
I have a 1985 Range Rover Classic.

I have replaced all the springs and suspension bushes with the heavy duty
springs and original rubber bush kit. I have also replaced the ball
joint.
I also had to replace the steering column since the bottom bearing had
disintegrated.
The track rod ends have all been replaced as well as the drop arm ball
joint.
So basically the steering and suspension is new.

This project started because I thought the rear springs were sagging and
grew as I discovered faults. The vehicle was handling fine before I
started (I think!!)

The steering now feels too direct - I have adjusted the play in the
steering box as per the book.
At highway speeds the tail seems to sway gently and doesn't make me feel
safe.
And when cornering the vehicle seems to oversteer mid way through the
corner. Almost as if something moved as the vehicle was turning the
corner. Cornering on the freeway requires constant correction of the
direction.
Driving around town is great - vehicle handles fine at slower speeds.

Am I neurotic and is this how the vehicle should behave with new bushes
etc? Was I too used to the sloppy handling??

Thanks

Paul

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Old 01-10-2006, 04:01   #2 (permalink)
EMB
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Re: Wandering RRC

Bob wrote:
> Hi Guys
> I have a 1985 Range Rover Classic.
>
> I have replaced all the springs and suspension bushes with the heavy duty
> springs and original rubber bush kit. I have also replaced the ball
> joint.

<snip>
>
> The steering now feels too direct - I have adjusted the play in the
> steering box as per the book.
> At highway speeds the tail seems to sway gently and doesn't make me feel
> safe.
> And when cornering the vehicle seems to oversteer mid way through the
> corner. Almost as if something moved as the vehicle was turning the
> corner. Cornering on the freeway requires constant correction of the
> direction.


The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster
on the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit
some caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.


--
EMB
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:01   #3 (permalink)
Dad
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Re: Wandering RRC

Think you have a possible accumulation of problems, depending on how much
lift above standard you have introduced with the new springs, if the
increased lift is two inch or more then the steering will not be as willing
to self centre, as the castor angle will have changed. As for the other iffy
handling characteristics, I sugest you get a prybar and check that all is
tight and as it should be, paying particular attention to the rear axle A
frame ball joint, as it's not always easy to get it right first time,
another thing is the panhard rod, and it's drop arm bracket, The above
locate the body latterally to the axles. Because of the amount of the
suspension you have removed and refitted, it would be a good idea to
retorque all the bolts anyway.
When sorted the vehicle should drive and handle with neutral
characteristics, and inspire confidence, which from the sound of it, yours
is not yet there.
Hope this helps


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Old 01-10-2006, 11:01   #4 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: Wandering RRC

On or around Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:10:07 +1300, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster
>on the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit
>some caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.


depends how much higher it is. Anything over about 1" needs correction,
ideally.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:01   #5 (permalink)
Phantom
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Re: Wandering RRC

Checked the panard rod bushes?

Lee

"EMB" <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dq04m2$lvb$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Bob wrote:
>> Hi Guys
>> I have a 1985 Range Rover Classic.
>>
>> I have replaced all the springs and suspension bushes with the heavy duty
>> springs and original rubber bush kit. I have also replaced the ball
>> joint.

> <snip>
>>
>> The steering now feels too direct - I have adjusted the play in the
>> steering box as per the book.
>> At highway speeds the tail seems to sway gently and doesn't make me feel
>> safe.
>> And when cornering the vehicle seems to oversteer mid way through the
>> corner. Almost as if something moved as the vehicle was turning the
>> corner. Cornering on the freeway requires constant correction of the
>> direction.

>
> The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster on
> the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit some
> caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.
>
>
> --
> EMB



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Old 01-11-2006, 01:01   #6 (permalink)
Bob
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Re: Wandering RRC

>
> The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster
> on the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit
> some caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.
>
>
>

Can you explain what caster does?
And where does one get caster corrected radius arms? In South Africa
preferably.

Maybe I should replace the original springs since the front ones were
fine. Sounds like a simple solution to me.

Thanks for your advice.
Paul
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Old 01-11-2006, 01:01   #7 (permalink)
icky
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Re: Wandering RRC


"Dad" <simon.cochran1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WlSwf.31888$yu.29694@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Think you have a possible accumulation of problems, depending on how much
> lift above standard you have introduced with the new springs, if the
> increased lift is two inch or more then the steering will not be as
> willing to self centre, as the castor angle will have changed. As for the
> other iffy handling characteristics, I sugest you get a prybar and check
> that all is tight and as it should be, paying particular attention to the
> rear axle A frame ball joint, as it's not always easy to get it right
> first time, another thing is the panhard rod, and it's drop arm bracket,
> The above locate the body latterally to the axles. Because of the amount
> of the suspension you have removed and refitted, it would be a good idea
> to retorque all the bolts anyway.
> When sorted the vehicle should drive and handle with neutral
> characteristics, and inspire confidence, which from the sound of it, yours
> is not yet there.
> Hope this helps
>I agree sounds more like a panhard rod issue, I had it on my disco half
>way round a corner it would suddenly over steer, when checked with a bar I
>couldnt get any movement I found the worn bushes by getting someone to rock
>steering wheel side to side with the wheels on the floor ( the body moved
>rather than the wheels)


Good luck
Icky


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Old 01-11-2006, 05:01   #8 (permalink)
Bob
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Re: Wandering RRC

In article <dq0tn2$4o9$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
elloello@btopenworld.com says...
> Checked the panard rod bushes?
>
> Lee
>
> "EMB" <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dq04m2$lvb$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > Bob wrote:
> >> Hi Guys
> >> I have a 1985 Range Rover Classic.
> >>
> >> I have replaced all the springs and suspension bushes with the heavy duty
> >> springs and original rubber bush kit. I have also replaced the ball
> >> joint.

> > <snip>
> >>
> >> The steering now feels too direct - I have adjusted the play in the
> >> steering box as per the book.
> >> At highway speeds the tail seems to sway gently and doesn't make me feel
> >> safe.
> >> And when cornering the vehicle seems to oversteer mid way through the
> >> corner. Almost as if something moved as the vehicle was turning the
> >> corner. Cornering on the freeway requires constant correction of the
> >> direction.

> >
> > The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster on
> > the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit some
> > caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.
> >
> >
> > --
> > EMB

>
>
>

Panhard rod bushes are new.

I am guessing that the new springs lifted the front by 2 inches - it is
quite an appreciable amount.

I think I will pop the original springs back this weekend. It makes sense
since it has not been right since I replaced them.

Thanks for the advice.
Paul
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Old 01-11-2006, 06:01   #9 (permalink)
Austin Shackles
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Re: Wandering RRC

On or around Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:03:00 +0200, Bob <paulri@email.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>>
>> The heavy duty springs have raised the vehicle, causing reduced caster
>> on the front axle. This is what is causing your steering problems - fit
>> some caster-corrected radius arms and the problem will disappear.
>>
>>
>>

>Can you explain what caster does?
>And where does one get caster corrected radius arms? In South Africa
>preferably.


caster (or castor) is what makes the steering self-straighten. Effectively,
the front wheels operate like a supermarket trolley wheel, in other words,
once moving forwards, they tend to run straight. in reverse, the opposite
applies, which is why if you reverse very fast it can be more difficult to
keep it straight.

If you raise the front end, you alter the angle of the swivel bearings,
since the axle/swivel is held on the radius arm - the change in angle can be
calculated by measuring the effective length of the radius arm (to the
middle of the axle) and applying trigonometry to that and the amount of lift
you have achieved. If you lowered the radius arm attachment at the rear of
the front arms by the same as the lift, you'd get the same caster angle as
you had before.

There are 2 fixes: different radius arms, which have the mountings for the
axle bushes at a different angle, so the axle is returned to its intended
orientation, or different swivel housings, in which the swivel bearing
positions are altered to get the angle correct. In either case, you need to
know how much lift to get the correct one for the job.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
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Old 01-16-2006, 05:01   #10 (permalink)
Dad
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Posts: n/a
Re: Wandering RRC

Think you have a possible accumulation of problems, depending on how much
lift above standard you have introduced with the new springs, if the
increased lift is two inch or more then the steering will not be as willing
to self centre, as the castor angle will have changed. As for the other iffy
handling characteristics, I sugest you get a prybar and check that all is
tight and as it should be, paying particular attention to the rear axle A
frame ball joint, as it's not always easy to get it right first time,
another thing is the panhard rod, and it's drop arm bracket, The above
locate the body latterally to the axles. Because of the amount of the
suspension you have removed and refitted, it would be a good idea to
retorque all the bolts anyway.
When sorted the vehicle should drive and handle with neutral
characteristics, and inspire confidence, which from the sound of it, yours
is not yet there.
Hope this helps


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