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Old 12-11-2005, 17:01   #1 (permalink)
mdp
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S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

Have an 2003 S-Type R. Wonderful car except for one thing. Light braking
causes a fairly loud squeal. Dealer said it's common with Brembo brakes and
applied a compound (spray I think) which worked but for only a few days.
Anyone know of a better more permanent solution?


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Old 12-12-2005, 04:01   #2 (permalink)
webserve
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Re: S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

Congratulations,
You have learned lesson number 1 about Jag dealers -- they don't know
what they are talking about.

I am not particularly familiar with the S-Type, but I am familiar with Jags
and brakes and Brembos. I have 3 Jags and two of them run Brembo rotors and
pads. I also have a friend with a 2001 XJR with the Brembo brake system and
it does not squeal. Squealing of brakes is caused by a vibration of the pad
against the rotor. It is a common occurrence.

Quality brake pads come with thin metal plates that are called shims that go
between the pad and the piston in the caliper. In most cases, a sealant is
used between the surface of the shim and the pad itself to absorb the
vibration and eliminate the noise. Most after market auto parts stores
carry this sealant. In my own particular case, I simply use silicone
sealant like you would use it seal a bathroom sink -- but with higher heat
properties. This eliminates the vibration to the point the squealing goes
away.

When the service guy at the Jag dealership sprayed on the compound, he was
simply doing it to make you go away. As you are aware, as soon as the
compound dried and wore off -- the sequel returned. Squealing has been a
common problem with common solutions for 40+ years -- since the widespread
use of disk brakes. Most cars have disk brakes. Stand in a parking lot and
listen to see how many cars squeal as they brake.

At some point, there must have been work done to the front brakes of your
S-Type. Apparently, who ever did this work, forgot to replace the shims or
forgot to use the anti-squeal compound on the shims/pads. If you have NOT
had work done on the front brakes of this car, then the chances are -- you
need to. Squealing is sometimes a method of letting the driver know the
pads are getting low.

Now you know why I have 3 Jaguars and not one of them has ever darkened the
service bay of the local dealership.

Webserve





"mdp" <markdpend@spambegone.aol.com> wrote in message
news:Vo3nf.2269$pE4.1655@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> Have an 2003 S-Type R. Wonderful car except for one thing. Light braking
> causes a fairly loud squeal. Dealer said it's common with Brembo brakes

and
> applied a compound (spray I think) which worked but for only a few days.
> Anyone know of a better more permanent solution?
>
>



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Old 12-12-2005, 20:01   #3 (permalink)
mdp
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

Thanks for the info. I only have 10K miles with about 75% of the pads
remaining. Never had any brake work. It's always squealed. I may take it
to a specialist to do what you mentioned. I must say, however, despite the
squeal this is one nice car.

"webserve" <webserve00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c00f$439d6423$45282d89$991@ALLTEL.NET...
> Congratulations,
> You have learned lesson number 1 about Jag dealers -- they don't know
> what they are talking about.
>
> I am not particularly familiar with the S-Type, but I am familiar with
> Jags
> and brakes and Brembos. I have 3 Jags and two of them run Brembo rotors
> and
> pads. I also have a friend with a 2001 XJR with the Brembo brake system
> and
> it does not squeal. Squealing of brakes is caused by a vibration of the
> pad
> against the rotor. It is a common occurrence.
>
> Quality brake pads come with thin metal plates that are called shims that
> go
> between the pad and the piston in the caliper. In most cases, a sealant
> is
> used between the surface of the shim and the pad itself to absorb the
> vibration and eliminate the noise. Most after market auto parts stores
> carry this sealant. In my own particular case, I simply use silicone
> sealant like you would use it seal a bathroom sink -- but with higher heat
> properties. This eliminates the vibration to the point the squealing goes
> away.
>
> When the service guy at the Jag dealership sprayed on the compound, he was
> simply doing it to make you go away. As you are aware, as soon as the
> compound dried and wore off -- the sequel returned. Squealing has been a
> common problem with common solutions for 40+ years -- since the
> widespread
> use of disk brakes. Most cars have disk brakes. Stand in a parking lot
> and
> listen to see how many cars squeal as they brake.
>
> At some point, there must have been work done to the front brakes of your
> S-Type. Apparently, who ever did this work, forgot to replace the shims
> or
> forgot to use the anti-squeal compound on the shims/pads. If you have NOT
> had work done on the front brakes of this car, then the chances are --
> you
> need to. Squealing is sometimes a method of letting the driver know the
> pads are getting low.
>
> Now you know why I have 3 Jaguars and not one of them has ever darkened
> the
> service bay of the local dealership.
>
> Webserve
>
>
>
>
>
> "mdp" <markdpend@spambegone.aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Vo3nf.2269$pE4.1655@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>> Have an 2003 S-Type R. Wonderful car except for one thing. Light
>> braking
>> causes a fairly loud squeal. Dealer said it's common with Brembo brakes

> and
>> applied a compound (spray I think) which worked but for only a few days.
>> Anyone know of a better more permanent solution?
>>
>>

>
>



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Old 12-13-2005, 09:01   #4 (permalink)
C.R. Krieger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

webserve wrote:
> Congratulations,
> You have learned lesson number 1 about Jag dealers -- they don't know
> what they are talking about.
>
> Squealing of brakes is caused by a vibration of the pad
> against the rotor. It is a common occurrence.
>
> Quality brake pads come with thin metal plates that are called shims that go
> between the pad and the piston in the caliper. In most cases, a sealant is
> used between the surface of the shim and the pad itself to absorb the
> vibration and eliminate the noise.
>
> Squealing has been a
> common problem with common solutions for 40+ years -- since the widespread
> use of disk brakes. Most cars have disk brakes. Stand in a parking lot and
> listen to see how many cars squeal as they brake.


You fail to mention that it is possible that *nothing* will absolutely
and permanently eradicate squealing from disk brakes. It is an
inherent property and, the better (higher performance) the brakes are,
the *more likely it is* that they will squeal. Even doing *all* of the
recommended things is no guarantee your brakes won't continue to
squeal. This is not necessarily a sign of incompetence but of a lack
of technology available to ensure the result. *If* there were a sure
fix, all the high-end manufacturers would have been using it by now.

That said, for the lowest-cost fix, one can nearly always minimize the
noise by modulating braking pressure. Either brake harder and more
aggressively or softer and more gently because the noise is a product
of not only the surfaces involved (affected by gunks and shims applied
to the parts) but also of the clamping pressure and speed of the
surfaces.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

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Old 12-14-2005, 11:01   #5 (permalink)
alan4spamoffd@tpg.com.au
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

C.R. Krieger wrote:

> webserve wrote:
> > Congratulations,
> > You have learned lesson number 1 about Jag dealers -- they don't know
> > what they are talking about.
> >
> > Squealing of brakes is caused by a vibration of the pad
> > against the rotor. It is a common occurrence.
> >
> > Quality brake pads come with thin metal plates that are called shims that go
> > between the pad and the piston in the caliper. In most cases, a sealant is
> > used between the surface of the shim and the pad itself to absorb the
> > vibration and eliminate the noise.
> >
> > Squealing has been a
> > common problem with common solutions for 40+ years -- since the widespread
> > use of disk brakes. Most cars have disk brakes. Stand in a parking lot and
> > listen to see how many cars squeal as they brake.

>
> You fail to mention that it is possible that *nothing* will absolutely
> and permanently eradicate squealing from disk brakes. It is an
> inherent property and, the better (higher performance) the brakes are,
> the *more likely it is* that they will squeal. Even doing *all* of the
> recommended things is no guarantee your brakes won't continue to
> squeal. This is not necessarily a sign of incompetence but of a lack
> of technology available to ensure the result. *If* there were a sure
> fix, all the high-end manufacturers would have been using it by now.
>
> That said, for the lowest-cost fix, one can nearly always minimize the
> noise by modulating braking pressure. Either brake harder and more
> aggressively or softer and more gently because the noise is a product
> of not only the surfaces involved (affected by gunks and shims applied
> to the parts) but also of the clamping pressure and speed of the
> surfaces.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)


Well reasoned but I don't think I agree. Have had a number of high performance
vehicles, Jags, Jensens, Aston-Martins but have never had a brake squeal. Surely
it's not inherent in the actual technology unless there's a fault?

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Old 12-14-2005, 13:01   #6 (permalink)
C.R. Krieger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: S-Type R Brembo Brakes Squeal

alan4spamoffd@tpg.com.au wrote:
> C.R. Krieger wrote:
>
> > webserve wrote:
> > > Squealing has been a
> > > common problem with common solutions for 40+ years -- since the widespread
> > > use of disk brakes. Most cars have disk brakes. Stand in a parking lot and
> > > listen to see how many cars squeal as they brake.

> >
> > You fail to mention that it is possible that *nothing* will absolutely
> > and permanently eradicate squealing from disk brakes. It is an
> > inherent property and, the better (higher performance) the brakes are,
> > the *more likely it is* that they will squeal.

>
> Well reasoned but I don't think I agree. Have had a number of high performance
> vehicles, Jags, Jensens, Aston-Martins but have never had a brake squeal. Surely
> it's not inherent in the actual technology unless there's a fault?


Although disk brakes are all prone to developing squeal, individual
driving habits can avoid squealing brakes. You are apparently one of
the lucky ones. Frequently modulating your braking both firmly and
softly can completely eliminate squeal in some cases. One very
important factor is pad composition. Many high-end manufacturers will
tend to use a softer pad for their street cars to help eliminate
squeal. They also tend to use more part- and labor-intensive measures
such as antisqueal shims and antisqueal 'gunks'. Therefore, the noise
occurs less often.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

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