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Old 04-25-2004, 04:11   #1 (permalink)
ZK 351
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Read 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

Either a straight gas by its self or with twin turbos,,, advice/suggestions/hints/tips/cheap parts much appreciated

its all at the link below

http://www.tmaauto.com/tma-auto/show...lastpost&t=885
thanks

BTW its for my FC LTD..
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Old 04-27-2004, 19:08   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

Straight LPG!

Never get tired of seeing that. I can suggest a couple of things...

A roller cam is nice but expect to pay a small fortune ($1500+) to get the cam and lifters only. Depending on how hot you want the engine to be you may be better off just going a solid flat tappet or even a big hydraulic FT. LPG only engines typically need 10% more fuel (bigger cam) to make the same amount of power as a compareable petrol engine. But as a plus, LPG idles better, so the difference is minimal.

Single plane intake manifolds are a much better choice for LPG engines that are going to be running a dual gas research setup. Dual plane will most likely run out of puff at high RPM where a single plain (my favourite is a weiand x cellerator) will keep on going. I'd be going for the dual throttle body, dual converter setup. If nothing else it'll give you room to improve before you start running out of fuel.

I'd also suggest you choose NA or Turbo long before you start building. If you choose the turbo route then your piston choice is clearly going to be different, but your heads will be too. Without too much knowledge of twin turbo clevelands, i'd say 4v heads would be the better choice. Only because 4v's aren't going to have flow problems with 20psi of boost being crammed down their throats.

All 4v's should need is a cleanup and their done. Instead your focus would need to be on making the bottom end bulletproof and of course making sure your drivetrain can handle the power!

Good luck,
Greg
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Old 04-27-2004, 20:30   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

How much power do you want and at what price limit? What diff (bw or 9") and trans (FMX or C4) are you running?

Talk to a couple of engine builders/tuners as to what they would suggest. Jakes Performance, Dyno Tune, Gas Tune are possible suggestions in the ACT region.
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Old 04-28-2004, 05:11   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

What are your goals?

Do you want to run straight gas to meet emissions or to keep fuel costs down?
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Old 04-28-2004, 05:33   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

well not sure what i can get for what i want to pay, only want to put about $4-5k into it though, so roller cam would be out then, it will be daily driven still,
i can get most things done at good prices as well, so that is a helping factor.

has a FMX, its in good order,

has the b/w, 4 pinion LSD with 28 spline axles, i think with the auto this will last a while, i have a few 9" ones to choose from if this one dies... 2.77 ratio, (i know its not the best ratio for go go, but i do long distances a fair bit)

I want to run straight gas just because i have read a few books on it and i like the sound of it, and it gives me more of an option for a big block or even an older clevo block if i want down the track, and have already forked out the cost for dual fuel and would rather just ditch the fuel that cost nothing to put on than the gas that did cost me if you know what i mean, its easier to go back to fuel later on if i feel so inclined to do so,
and i have heard good things about the gasresearch setups.... so yeah..
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Old 04-28-2004, 05:46   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

So a turbo is out.

Since it's in a fairlane, building a torquey motor should be your goal.

Will you be building a new motor or modify your current motor?
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Old 04-28-2004, 05:58   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

yeah well probaby should scratch the turbo idea, was just a thought, i would splash a few more sheckles towards it but i dont really need it if you know what i mean..... good upgrade later on when i want more power i guess

the plan is to pull the one thats in there and rebuild it (and temp fit a 302 or something because i drive it to work every day), but if i can get a cheap black 351 to start on, thats an option also, either way, i mean if i could get a block that had already been freshly bored and an original black block crank (4mab) that had been ground and stuff that would be a bonus, but yeah.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:23   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZK 351
yeah well probaby should scratch the turbo idea, was just a thought, i would splash a few more sheckles towards it but i dont really need it if you know what i mean..... good upgrade later on when i want more power i guess

.
No it isn't a good upgrade later on as the engine build would not suit it.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:45   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

yeah well ok forget i mentioned it :)
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Old 04-28-2004, 17:51   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 351 build help, straight LPG/ mabey turbo

I'd agree with xbgs351, a torquey 351 will be way better for your application than a high HP engine.

With the 2.77:1 diff ratio you won't get to enjoy an engine that makes its power above 5500 anyway.

I'd be looking to build and engine that makes a long, flat torque curve and forget about HP. Have a look at the RPM ranges high HP cams operate in. All of them over 3000 rpm. If you were to put a 3500rpm stall converter behind an engine like that, with 2.77:1 gears, you'll go through an auto every month because even at 110kph your converter will still be slipping. If you use a stock stall and 2.77's with a big cam, by the time your engine has made it to its powerband a stock 6cyl will have torqued away and beaten you.

For a more torquey engine i'd try to have the cam kick in between 1800-2000 rpm so you can run your stock stall converter or even a 2000 rpm stallie. Personally i'd go for wade cams grind 750. Don't bother with a dual gas research setup, it won't be needed for this engine. In fact it'd probably run worse than if you ran a single carb gas research setup or an impco 425. I say this because the dual carby setup is worth over $2500 new. Get the heads cleaned up, stainless valves, unleaded valve seats and don't bother with 4v valves, they'll cost you power down low. Aim for a 10:1 comp ratio, LPG being a 98+ron fuel means decent compression is not going to cause problems.

I'd still be inclined to go for a weiand x-cellerator, but an edelbrock performer rpm would also be an excellent match. A reco'd and recurved bosh electronic dizzy with 8.0mm leads and a bosh coil would do for ignition.

A totally stock 4mab setup with a freshen up would handle this type of running, forever.

I'm sure this isn't what you wanted to read, but a big HP engine and the budget you have put up is not likely to happen. Even with more money you'll still need a high stall, shift kitted c4/c10/c6 and 3.9:1 or shorter gears and totally defeated the purpose of a daily driver.

A good torquey engine that can slaughter a hsv with 2.77 gears and a stock stallie, but still get 400+kms to a tank of LPG, now thats a true daily driver clevo!
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