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Old 09-17-2003, 03:58   #1 (permalink)
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Duel Fuel to LPG only??

Got a quick question for everyone..

Ive a 95 EF with duel fuel system, and was wondering how much would it cost to change to a lpg only system??

Would i be able to use any of the existing parts i have now? How much would it cost to rebuild the engine to lpg spec?

One other thing, power wise, if i got the engine properly rebuilt and system converted to gas only, how much less power would i be running at, in comarison to petrol?

What about total cost?? To convert car, and rebuild engine?

And lastly, where could i got for something like this? If i have a bit of time i might stop by at gas-research and see what info i can find there.

Hopefully some of you can help me out:D

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Old 09-17-2003, 20:50   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

Anyone?
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Old 09-17-2003, 22:54   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

i stopped at gas research a few weeks ago. they said $1400 installed using my existing tank and lines (i have dual fuel also) fully installed. Their kit is apprently really good.
unsure what it would cost to get the engine rebuilt to LPG spec but i assume it would be about the same as a normal rebuild. LPG setup correctly should make the same power as Petrol (though will use more LPG)

i myself am probably going to get the Gas Research kit at the start of next year.
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Old 09-17-2003, 23:35   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

You shouldnt need to build the engine to suit LPG, that was only for cars that originally ran on Leaded.

Unleaded engines have all the requirements for LPG, which is basically only Hardened valve seats.

If you wanted, you could get a cam more suited to LPG, for a bit of a gain.

I dont know if its possible to re-program the ignition curve/map in the EECV, but you should inquire about it, as ignition changes, i'm told, will give good results cause LPG burns in a different way to petrol. Having said that, the car will still be fine on the standard ignition curve.
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Old 09-18-2003, 02:58   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

Thanks alot for the replies...

$1400 doesnt sound too bad, might give gas research a stop on the weekend..
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Old 09-18-2003, 03:08   #6 (permalink)
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A cam more suited to LPG is well worth the money, if anything you may like to rebuild the engine with a bit more compression as gas can be run comfortably at 10.5:1. An aftermarket chip will give you the most flexibility when it comes to ignition timing, gas burns a little slower than petrol and likes more advanced timing to make the most power.

You can also rip out all of the petrol gear which can be 100+kgs, that will shave roughly 2 tenths of a second off your 1/4 mile time and give you better economy. You will definatly need a good set of extractors and a 2 1/4"+ exhaust to get the most out of it too.

Gas Research are the best, no question. Your existing tank will be fine and you may find your converter will be OK as well, but its still not cheap. Also their dyno seems to read really low. So don't be too disapointed if the figures are low when they install it, you'll get more on a better tuned dyno.
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Old 09-18-2003, 17:56   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

One problem with this is you're really chasing your tail and spending money just to try and get even with an all-petrol motor. It's fine to do on an old carby car but on an EF it's probably the equivalent of ripping your injection off and installing a 650 Holley. If you think how much better off you'd be if you'd just started with a petrol car and left it, maybe you should think about trading it in for one before you spend a heap of money trying to catch up. Just a thought :)
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Old 09-18-2003, 20:10   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

1. my petrol system is in shitty condition so will cost a few hundred $$ to clean the injectors etc.
2. my car gets ~ 500-550km from a tank of optimax ($60?)
same sort of driving on LPG i currently get about 400-450km's ($20)
3. my car does ~40,000km's a year so LPG saves a lot!
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Old 09-19-2003, 06:41   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

Quote:
Originally Posted by PigDog
One problem with this is you're really chasing your tail and spending money just to try and get even with an all-petrol motor. It's fine to do on an old carby car but on an EF it's probably the equivalent of ripping your injection off and installing a 650 Holley. If you think how much better off you'd be if you'd just started with a petrol car and left it, maybe you should think about trading it in for one before you spend a heap of money trying to catch up. Just a thought :)
What a load of BS. Ever built a car up to run straight LPG? I'm guessing not. EFI cars are *more* likely to benifit from the higher octane rating LPG offers as the ECU spends less time retarding the ignition timing trying to avoid pinging . LPG has the same octane rating as optimax and all the rest of the $1 per litre premium fuels, so the engines make just as much power as petrol engines... provided they are running gas only and tuned to use gas only.

Yes LPG powered engines use more fuel to make the same power as petrol powered engines, luckily its easy to overcome with a bigger cam. And as LPG fuelled cars tend to idle better, you'll never notice the fact a lumpier cam has been installed.

But really, 10% more fuel usage @ 35cpl :wgaf:

It also depends on how long your planning on keeping the car for. If you spend the money (around $2500 to do things properly depending on what you do) then you can enjoy years of powerful, cheap, reliable driving saving $40 per week and not losing any power.
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Old 09-19-2003, 07:13   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Re: Duel Fuel to LPG only??

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdc351
What a load of BS. Ever built a car up to run straight LPG? I'm guessing not. EFI cars are *more* likely to benifit from the higher octane rating LPG offers as the ECU spends less time retarding the ignition timing trying to avoid pinging . LPG has the same octane rating as optimax and all the rest of the $1 per litre premium fuels, so the engines make just as much power as petrol engines... provided they are running gas only and tuned to use gas only.

Yes LPG powered engines use more fuel to make the same power as petrol powered engines, luckily its easy to overcome with a bigger cam. And as LPG fuelled cars tend to idle better, you'll never notice the fact a lumpier cam has been installed.

But really, 10% more fuel usage @ 35cpl :wgaf:

It also depends on how long your planning on keeping the car for. If you spend the money (around $2500 to do things properly depending on what you do) then you can enjoy years of powerful, cheap, reliable driving saving $40 per week and not losing any power.
Nice rant :)

Fact is octane rating alone is not the sole factor when you're talking about fuels. LPG contains less total energy than the equivalent volume of petrol. This means it makes less power and you'll use more of it to make the same power as you do on petrol. That's right, you get better mileage on petrol for a reason, not just for fun. You can make some of this energy defecit up by boosting compression to take advantage of the octane rating, but not all of it. Also you can't really push the compression that much further because gas is so inconsistent depending on where you buy it.

Look at the new E-gas lpg only engine in the BA. 156kW@4750 vs 182kW@5000rpm. Guess gas doesn't like top end all that much, I doubt a bit of extra compression would make up that 26kW.
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