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Old 01-26-2003, 00:35   #1 (permalink)
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LPG clevo's

soon i will have another ford in the stable..

this time its an XE with a 302.. currently running dual fuel (spew)

i will be throwing the 351 crank and rods i can get my hands on into it shortly after.

i will also be leaving the 302 close chamber heads on it, as they have been modded for gas, and will also bring the comp up near 11.1

what kind of straight gas setup's have you guys run? I will use a setup the same as my rx4 13BT LPG, with a single gas research throttle body (not sure about the cfm for an n/a car as yet) and a single B2 converter.

also, the car will be daily driven, and driven about 400 kms a week. I want a cam with a power band from 2000ish to mid 5k. when it comes to cam choice, is there anything special i should be looking at due to the gas?

all info on running a clevo on LPG is welcome :)

p.s. its an stock 302 auto.
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Old 01-26-2003, 01:47   #2 (permalink)
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Is your RX 7 a blue one with the LPG hangin underneath ?
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Old 01-26-2003, 02:35   #3 (permalink)
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i dont have an rx7.. the post said rx4 :)
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Old 01-27-2003, 04:48   #4 (permalink)
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anyone runnin straight gas on a clevo?
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Old 01-27-2003, 19:51   #5 (permalink)
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i was considering doing the same thing on my xe 351.

the straight gas option is definately the best option, stacks more power than dual fuel as the dual carbys have to compensate for the other.

i wanted to run a shaker on mine (gas or no gas) and after reading an article in a ford mag, "Ford Performance" (i think), it had this bright yellow XB or XC Coup with a 460 big block, it made about 500 hp on gas! with a shaker! the guys that designed it started a business called GAS ATTACK, they are based in VIC i believe and they produce these straight gas carbs for high performance.

i actually gave them a call (about 2 year ago) and they exist.

They run this setup that has two lines that runs to the carb (like a secondary i believe) for greater flow (with two mixers and converters i believe), they say the second line is essential in providing the extra flow to provide proformance. Plus as the setup is based on a holley base you can run a shaker!

I can dig out the article at home, and tell u the exact mag and issue, if u want to read it. The number is in the article and i should still have the fax number at home.

Also u will need to consider the fact that gas burns hotter than fuel, this leads to the standard fitted valves and value seats burning out, to get around the problem u will need stainless steel items OR my father had a setup on his 4X4 that drip feed this solution directly into the head, it also protects the valves and valve seats.

I have also heard that straight gas applications can sometimes get better performance that a ordinary petrol setup.

Good luck mate :)
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Old 01-27-2003, 20:10   #6 (permalink)
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yeah the current setup in the car is a stock 302 with the heads modified for the gas already.

I just wanted to know if anyone else is running the same kind of setup (351 bottom end, with 302 close chamber heads) on straight LPG, and what kind of gas setup they have, and also what dizzy they are using.

Gas research performance centre in dandenong (vic) is where ive had my car tuned with the turbo etc and they know what they are on about..

more info on http://www.gasresearch.com.au ...

i will also be getting a cam, with power band of about 2200-5500 or something.. a very mild street cam.

I just want to know, if i decided to only use a single carby and single converter, if it would be able to suck in enough air and fuel to be able to rev higher..

the single carby with single converter is only rated to 300bhp and 4600rpm

the dual carby and single converter is rated to 300bhp but 8000rpm..

the dual carby and dual converter is rated above all these :)

only problem then is cost.. the first kit costs 850 dollars roughly, whereas the other two cost near on 1500+

hopefully one will pop up in the trading post soon :)

the carbys also can have their cfm changed for 70 dollars with ease.. my old one on the rx4 was 320cfm and i had it changed to 440cfm for 70 dollars, and posted back to me in two days.


still looking for answers on :

-cam choice (should i be looking at different cams for LPG?)
-dizzy
-LPG setup on high comp 351

thanks :)
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Old 01-28-2003, 03:46   #7 (permalink)
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hi broomy, i have a 351 cleveland on straight gas, and in my opinion, its the only way to go make sure you have a big tank or 2.

i think you are making a mistake with using 302 heads, the motor, as you know will make 11.5 comp ratio, and nowadays, i think the gas octain is lower than a few years ago.
my 351 clevo with 302 heads pings on a hot day under full throttle, and towing heavy loads.

also, this set up is in a zk fairlane, you might be interested in the way i have my twin gas tanks

jim
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Old 01-28-2003, 04:47   #8 (permalink)
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I use to have a XF Ghia Wagon fitted with a 351C, 302heads, 4V valves etc etc that was straight gas, don't run the 302 head without opening up the combustion chamber, not only does it give the starter a hard time, LPG in Aus is a mix of butane and propane, the mix is never the same and they have a big difference BTU and octane. Butane has slighty higher british thermal rating but far lower octane (cant remember but I think it is a fair bit lower than unleaded, dont quote me on it) and propane has a slightly lower BTU (lower than petrol) but much higher octane.(In straight form I think it is 100+)
But getting back to it, LPG may have a higher octane at a set temp but as a gases form that octane is lost with temperture, much higher than petrol as goes in as fuel droplets and changes to a gas in the combustion chamber which absorbs latant heat, lowering the combustion chamber temperture.
A shorter reply means, I wouldnt leave it at 11.5:1, I would bring it back to closer to 10:1or10.5:1, saves on headaches later, trust me I have been though it all, plus make sure you get go cold air induction, try to reduce engine bay temps as well, u will get good benifits from it.
Tuning is another thing, don't push the tuning to the limit, gas from one bowser to the next can have a big difference in propane/butane mix.
You can still get heaps of performance from it, LPG burns at a different rate so ignition maping is heaps different to petrol, normally more inital advance and less total in comparison to a similar setup petrol engine.
If you are a traveler get a huge tank as u already know from the other cars u have, in QLD other than the coast it is far between servos that have gas and their hours opened are short!


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also, this set up is in a zk fairlane, you might be interested in the way i have my twin gas tanks
I am interested Execjim!
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Old 01-28-2003, 05:25   #9 (permalink)
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so no body nowadays runs that high a comp on straigth gas hey? :( bummer..

the gas is now a mix of 50/50 butane propane, and you USE to be able to purchase PURE propane for your car at a gas place in dandenong. I know a guy who has a very tough turbo 6 on gas, and ran 30psi without forgies with propane and the motor loved it.. ran it on 25psi with normal LPG and the motor melted in 20 secs..

if only i could get my hands on some pure propane to run my rx4 one last time with it!!

the car is mainly only a city car, and will travel as far as heathcote to the drags.. but has a 70L fillable tank in it, so its more than enough.

What heads would be the best to use then, just the stock 351 heads?
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Old 01-28-2003, 05:48   #10 (permalink)
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hi damage,i have two gas tanks in my ZK fairlaine, as on a long trip or towing, 1 tank didnt go too far.
1 tank is under the parcel shelf, and the other tank is where the petrol tank once sat.
i now have at least 120 litres on board.
i have lost some boot space, but i was sick of always filling up, and as we all know, if we run out of gas, we cant fill a container and fill the tank.

broomy, i would stay with the standard compression a 351 has, or have your 302 and get some low compression pistons, thats if they make them???
broomy, i also agree with damage about gas quality, its different at every servo, and also the other things he has said.

hope we have been some help

jim
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